Canon 5DS takes a backwards step for video - severe rolling shutter, moire and lack of uncompressed HDMI

[dr_jon]

I know this is an old thread, but I just ran my 5Dsr through my favourite video Moire/Aliasing horror test and it completely rocked it. Both my GH3 and GH4 do appallingly at FHD (presumably due to skipping about a third of the pixels) and only the GH4 does well at it when in 4k mode. I haven't done a rolling shutter test yet, but if it really reads the whole 16:9 crop of the 50MP sensor (8688x4888 = 42.5MP) to make the video I imagine it won't be great (buy hey, bolt on a faster CPU, add a small crop and you have 8k, hmmm). I don't think there is enough control to make it a decent video camera (I certainly didn't buy it for that, I have a particular use for a hi-res stills camera), but right now I'd dispute any moire/aliasing assertions.

(If anyone is in London one of my tests, although I have a few, is shooting through Tower Bridge from upstream on the South Bank with Canary Wharf about in the centre of the Bridge. The Windows in the building closest to the water on the left and the sky-scrapers are the interesting bits. I usually frame to have a 1+ to 2 Tower's widths either side of the Towers.)

[Andrew Reid]

Canon themselves said it had bad moire and aliasing.

Any chance you can upload your test footage to Vimeo?

[dr_jon]

Okay, but I'll have to hunt around a bit to get comparable footage, I've literally got dozens and dozens of GH3 and GH4 test shots taken there with different settings. Might be a day or three (I seem to have a busy week).

(Edit) Okay, I speeded it up, see below, but they are really not suitable to be seen by anyone else.

[dr_jon]

5Dsr (converted in about 30 mins so you'd have to download it now, 153MB):
https://vimeo.com/136023032

GH3 one really just plucked at semi-random (I just looked in two GH3 dirs with 50 moire/aliasing test videos between them, I have more dirs):
https://vimeo.com/136023791
Note I'm not a Plus/Pro member so will also show at 720p, hence you'll need to download it (115MB).

The GH4 looks a lot like the GH3. Except in 4k which is nice. These weren't really intended for public consumption or I'd have done them a lot better (although the quality would probably still drop off after the first 20 or so...). Looking at them there is so much that would make the 5Dsr one a better test, but looking at the other two videos I shot as well it still walks all over the GHx cameras in this single area. This was just the handiest one to upload.

[hmcindie]

You're not moving the 5dsr. The moire/aliasing is more hidden as it becomes more apparent during movement.

[dr_jon]

I moved it on one of the clips, but it really wasn't up to publishing (lack of stabilisation plus me trying assorted stuff). It was still miles better. I'll go there with a stabilised lens at some point (and a VND) and shoot some more. The difference was a lot. Really.

[Andrew Reid]

The 5DS does look better than I expected there, although it is very over sharpened and not good value for money in video terms in 2015.

[dr_jon]

It just used the Fine Detail picture style I was using for stills, so basically had a USM ("Un-Sharp Mask", which sharpens the image) applied to it. I was only interested in moire/aliasing so didn't bother with anything else (well, sensible shutter speed). If you actually wanted to shoot movies with it you'd use a different profile...

This one is hand-held and with the Neutral Picture Style (91MB, untweaked Picture Style - so can be better, note my total video shooting with the camera is these moire tests)...

https://vimeo.com/136118235

(Oh and remember the video shown on Vimeo is 720p and you need to download the 1080p version.)

It still completely destroys my GH3 and GH4 for moire/aliasing when shooting 1080p... please note this was my entire point. I am very impressed over this single item though. Bonus points for anyone else shooting this scene with their camera-of-choice!!!

BTW here's the maximum amount of stuff you can have super-imposed on the screen. You can turn much of it off, pretty much item by item. The settings are as per the video except it had a different picture style - Fine Detail here - and it was shot at f10, which you can probably see was needed from the histograms...
(You can also optionally clean the screen, I recommend Spontex micro-fibre cloths.)
 

[Andrew Reid]

Second video is much nicer.

Wow.

That is one hell of a clean 1080p image going on.

Wonder why Canon themselves talked it down?!

Clearly they want us to buy the Cinema EOS cameras for video, don't they. Even to the point of them claiming their flagship DSLR has moire... when actually it looks to do far better full frame internal 1080p than the 1D X, 1D C, GH4 and 5D Mark III put together.

[dr_jon]

Thanks - that was my (very unexpected) reaction, and why I commented...

[Andrew Reid]

Thank you for drawing it to our attention.

[kaylee]

It just used the Fine Detail picture style I was using for stills, so basically had a USM ("Un-Sharp Mask", which sharpens the image) applied to it. I was only interested in moire/aliasing so didn't bother with anything else (well, sensible shutter speed). If you actually wanted to shoot movies with it you'd use a different profile...

This one is hand-held and with the Neutral Picture Style (91MB, untweaked Picture Style - so can be better, note my total video shooting with the camera is these moire tests)...

https://vimeo.com/136118235

(Oh and remember the video shown on Vimeo is 720p and you need to download the 1080p version.)

It still completely destroys my GH3 and GH4 for moire/aliasing when shooting 1080p... please note this was my entire point. I am very impressed over this single item though. Bonus points for anyone else shooting this scene with their camera-of-choice!!!

BTW here's the maximum amount of stuff you can have super-imposed on the screen. You can turn much of it off, pretty much item by item. The settings are as per the video except it had a different picture style - Fine Detail here - and it was shot at f10, which you can probably see was needed from the histograms...
(You can also optionally clean the screen, I recommend Spontex micro-fibre cloths.)
 

 what tha heck!!!

uhmmm wowww.... tbh i was a little shocked when i opened that 1080p file

i need to see more video from this camera

thanks for bringing this up dr_jon...!!!!!!!!!

heres to ya

 

[hmcindie]

That 1080p sample looks really nice. Canon smoothness but this time with a bit of actual detail. I wonder what the rolling shutter on the 5dsr is?

[BrorSvensson]

I didn't even know the 5ds had the dual pixel thingy

 

very impressed by the quality

[dr_jon]

I didn't even know the 5ds had the dual pixel thingy

very impressed by the quality

It doesn't have Dual Pixel AF, just Canon's latest Contrast Detect AF, which can be set to operate during video recording (as shown).

The second video you posted is using the Standard Picture Style BTW.

[Nikkor]

The nikon d810 also has lineskipping (im pretty confident it does) but no moire, maybe canon uses the same trick. Anyway, good news for those who want to use a 5ds

[David Bowgett]

Very surprising. The video samples from the pre-production models appeared to be 6D-level bad, so Canon have pulled out one hell of an improvement for the final model.

Considering that the 5DS(r) sensor is by all accounts essentially a jumbo-sized 7D Mark II/70D sensor (though as mentioned, without dual-pixel AF), it makes me wonder whether the camera might be oversampling the video and downscaling it to produce the end result.

[dr_jon]

I'm sure it's oversampling, the question is whether it reads the whole 42.5MP...

[Liam]

I'm sure it's oversampling, the question is whether it reads the whole 42.5MP...

not a chance :3 looks good tho

[dr_jon]

It's just I remember someone saying it did... but I can't find it again...