Canon 5DS takes a backwards step for video - severe rolling shutter, moire and lack of uncompressed HDMI

[Andrew Reid]

Why your AF fan boyism relevant to video, I will never know.

This is a filmmaking site, not a Canon arse licking site.

Be thankful you have people working hard to give you the facts about the 5Ds for video so you can say things in blocked capitals simply repeating what I said on the blog.

[Oliver Daniel]

It's actually quite hilarious when people get emotional about camera specs. The only time I get emotional about camera specs is when they don't bloody work properly!  

Canon.... it seems they are positioning themselves for video in the top tier of the professional market, just beneath Arri and RED (who don't make any affordable cameras). 

The Canon video line under the C100 isn't even worth considering now, and I expect Canon have done that on purpose. Plenty of other fish in the sea though! 

[111210]

I dont understand why this is bad news, all that canon bashing on the internet.

canon made the "good" decision to invest in stills camera's as DSLR and video cameras with their cinema eos line.

 

[Andrew Reid]

Cinema EOS line still has no 4K under $8k and no consumer / enthusiast model.

Pretty glaring holes there that DSLRs fill perfectly, well mirrorless. None of them by Canon! So do go into more details why you think that's a good decsion.

I have no problem with Cinema EOS being a separate video line, but it's not very interesting. The C100 and C300 were always going to be like the video professional's office tools. The Canon copiers of the cinema world, not really cinema cameras.

[Husah]

This is a statement you really need to prove by stating the hard figures. Otherwise you're just guessing!

That's what I suspect this is, basically a guess.

If video is such a small market why does my local photography store in Berlin stock Blackmagic cinema cameras, Samyang cine lenses and the GH4?!

​This isn't a guess. Go check BCN ranking, or flickr stats

https://www.flickr.com/cameras/

GH series has tiny market, since video market is tiny. For Canon DSLR video markey is nothing more than percentage error

 

[Andrew Reid]

Haha.

Flickr is a photo site!

It's like gauging the size of the fast food market by looking at the number of McDonalds in Afghanistan!

[Nindy]

I have heard canon is announcing at nab a gh4 competitor, could this mean we will  get a sub c100 entry cam? I don't care if canon don't innovate video in dslr, I actually would love to go cinema line but it has to be at the right price. It seems illogical that canon haven't built the cinema line that covers all markets

[Cinegain]

What Andrew said. Come on. Looking up which cameras are mostly being used by Flickr users to establish somekind of conclusion on the use and market share of cameras that have a clear video advantage??! Makes no sense. Anyways...

@ Nindy : GH4 competitor? In order to be competitive they need to... bring the price. Roughly 1400 EUR is what the GH4 goes for these days. 4K internal recording. Haha, it already starts of right. Both of these I don't see happening just yet. Slow motion frame rates? GH4 can do 1080p 60fps and you could crank that up all the way to 96fps. And then there's the vari-angle touchscreen. EVF. Peaking. Etc. I mean... what I would love to have seen from Canon is the 760D being a mirrorless camera... having a bit better build quality than the actual 760D, feature an EVF, 4K, cinema profiles, timecode and all that good stuff. If it has any of these features, they're going to charge you big time... but I'll rather go with: 'they'll still charge you big time, but won't even give you all your desired features', which probably goes for the 5DmkIV. It will probably be kinda cool, but nothing as crazy as we'd like to see, except for the crazy price.

Another reason to rather go for the GH4... its size (and M43 ecosystem)! Pistolgrip gimbals... octocopters... a car's dashboard... you can place it just about anywhere really. That's atleast what I like so much about cameras like the GH4 personally. A7S with a small lens is pretty rad too.

[leeys]

@ Nindy : GH4 competitor? In order to be competitive they need to... bring the price.

I agree with what you're saying, but that'd totally wreck the pricing structure Canon has put in place.

I'm very certain none of what you all want is going to come from Canon in the short term. Blame the fanboys who enable it.

[zenpmd]

I still refute the idea in a big headline that it is a step backwards. Its sensationalist

[ajay]

I understand everyone's frustration with Canon. If I didn't have so much $$$ locked up in their glass, I would have moved on by now. With that stated, I think Andrew's dissatisfaction over the 5DS is misdirected. This is a camera clearly marketed for photographers who have a need for full-frame, high megapixel images. Canon has stated this is not a replacement for the 5D Mark III.

Canon should be announcing the 5D Mark IV this year. Let's hope they incorporate 4k into the camera in a meaningful way. I do have concerns however since Canon has a history of dumbing-down their cameras in firmware to force photographers/cinematographers to upgrade to more expensive models. Considering that they have a separate division of cinema-line of cameras, they may leave some key features out of the 5D Mark IV as to not take (perceived) revenue away from their cinema line.

Canon made a strategic mistake a few years ago by keeping high-end video features out of their DSLRs. Let's hope they see the errors of their ways.

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

Its sensationalist

​Yeah not like your posts at all! No!

Messiah!!?

[Jed I. Clampett]

I don't know if Canon is making a mistake? This camera holds no interest for me. Nor did I have any anticipation that Canon would put out a DSLR for video purposes. I am not going to buy it, not interested in it nor do I feel that Canon is interested in me. My last 4 camera bodies have been Canon, but not likely to be their customer again.

It reminds me of the record companies trying to continue to sell Cds with big profits and blaming their potential customers for downloading ripped individual songs since customers wanted the hit song, not the other garbage songs. It took Apple and itunes to make it happen and itunes is fabulously successful. In this way, what I want from Canon they are not interested in giving me, but it looks like lots of other mfg are.  This may be a great strategy for Canon, it does establish Canon as the photographers tool for still photographers only. I think the only mistake I can make is to get excited to see what Canon will do next for me?  This may be a great strategy about keeping the stills people happy, but for me I am looking elsewhere and there is plenty to choose from. I would just as soon not read about this camera, unless I was having trouble trying to sleep.

[Andrew Reid]

It's the lack of innovation that really gets my goat. Stick a different sensor in the 5D Mark III, 3 years later.... erm that's about it.

[Jimmy]

Why not wait until NAB until you hang them to dry though?

Last week, you were saying how the 1DC was all the camera you will ever need (or words to that effect). Surely if they bring out a 1DC mk II that is within reach of the EOSHD userbase, it will be heralded as one of the most innovative cameras ever (the 1DC still is the most innovative video DSLR on the market, if you care about a cinematic image).

If NAB comes and goes and all we get is a C300 mk II that is twice the price of the FS7.... Give them both barrels. Getting upset over a strategic still image camera seems futile though. Just reads like click bait.

[zenpmd]

​Yeah not like your posts at all! No!

Messiah!!?

​Sensationalist AND humourless....

[Jimbo]

I think Canon know exactly what they are doing, unfortunately for all of us who'd like them to be more innovative.

They have the most complete stills system, and the most complete video system, albeit over the last 3 years these systems have become separate bodies that share the same lens set. But how many times have you read a post where they say: "I would have changed system, but I'm heavily invested in L glass".

The poster could sell the glass and not lose much money, but lenses are an emotional thing for us video and stills makers, they work like our eyes and capture what we see. And with the turbulence of the DSLR/DSLM video market over the last 5 years how many people are going to brave a decision that will see them lose money and take a hit emotionally, when just around the corner the camera they've been waiting for might be delivered.

So yes, Canon are playing the game well, and have been spending their brand capital heavily to keep the competition at bay, and this is the year for them to make their move or lose a dangerous amount of ground in the £1-2K market.

We all know that Panasonic and Sony currently have the best all round cameras in our price/size bracket, and as much as we all love using vintage glass etc., what we really want is a mature complete system like Canon have. Sensitivity, DR, Colour, usability, and... lenses. Lenses designed for our favourite system.

With respect to the "Rebel" buyers, it only takes a critical mass of people to blow their friends away by showing them what their Olympus or Panasonic can do for Canon to start losing their critical "lead in" market. So for god's sake, show your friends, and keep the market competitive.

It's going to be a very interesting year. We should be excited not angry. I don't think they will, but if Canon rest on their laurels then so be it, because we don't really need them any more.

[MattGrum]

So for Canon to price the 5DS so highly, they must believe that almost all Canon users are locked into the EF platform via their investment in EF lenses. The problem here though is that barely any of the current EF lenses resolve 50MP

​

Firstly lenses don't "resolve" a certain number of megapixels, what happens is contrast starts to go down as details get closer together. This is characterised by the MTF of the lens. The sensor has it's own MTF. System resolution is determined by the product of the lens MTF and sensor MTF, thus an improvement in either can lead to an improvement in system resolution.

Secondly most EF lenses will provide excellent results with a 50MP sensor over the most important central region of the image, as demonstrated by years of FF lens use on APS-C. I'd bet many would perform adequately even at the borders. They certainly wont be any worse than on a 22MP sensor, whilst at the same time you will get less alisaing on demosaicing artifacts by virtue of oversampling.

It is sad to see the artificial segregation of the camera through downgrading video features and ISO settings. I'm very much hoping Sony can manage a line-skipped 1.1x crop 4K video from their next 50MP sensor, that should resize down to a very nice 1080p file.

[The Chris]

​It is sad to see the artificial segregation of the camera through downgrading video features and ISO settings. I'm very much hoping Sony can manage a line-skipped 1.1x crop 4K video from their next 50MP sensor, that should resize down to a very nice 1080p file.

​Hopefully its better than what they did with the 24mp A7/A99, which can only be called awful - loaded with moire, aliasing and very soft.

[Damphousse]

I really don't see this as bad news... they have made a photo centric camera...

​Yeah.  It would be like getting upset the latest Canon copier doesn't have 24p 4k recording.  It's a stills camera.

Meanwhile on a stills photography site...

 

​Canon is pimping out their most valuable property -- their brand for short term profits.   

​Is that why their bond rating is minty investment grade and Panasonic and Sony are synonymous with junk bonds?