Canon 5DS takes a backwards step for video - severe rolling shutter, moire and lack of uncompressed HDMI

[JESEOS CHRIST]

Demand for digital cameras with interchangeable lenses, however, slowed,” Canon said, citing economic weakness and difficult conditions in the camera sector...

They forgot to cite their own lack of innovation as a reason for sales slowing. 

Day by day, the NX1 appears to be the best alternative.

I can buy an NX1 for the cost of selling off one of my Canon lenses, which is a very likely outcome for all of my Canon lenses considering I have no intention to use Canon DSLRs if these new 5D series cameras are indicative of what to expect from them in the future.

Canon, y'all done eff'd up. Y'all done eff'd up real good. Congratulations!

[Superka]

Why don't you complain that SONY didn't make any improvements in still images in their FS7 camera?

I think Canon did right when split their products to still and video lines. They did this right!

[mtheory]

This high MP camera ( originally codenamed '3D' ) has been talked about for 3 years already, and it was already being nicknamed "The Photographer's Camera" back in 2012 ( Check Northlight's rumor page for 3D for Jan 2012 ), so this release is primarily a brand credibility check for Canon. 

[bertzie]

Someone really needs to sit people down and explain that a DSLR is not a video camera. Apparently a lot of people still don't seem to understand that.

You don't complain about video cameras taking crappy stills, why do you continue to complain about stills cameras taking poor video?

[johnnymossville]

About the same sensor pixel density as a MFT camera.   I'd be interested to see how they compare when you crop the 16 megapixel center out of the image. 

[eleison]

Someone really needs to sit people down and explain that a DSLR is not a video camera. Apparently a lot of people still don't seem to understand that.

You don't complain about video cameras taking crappy stills, why do you continue to complain about stills cameras taking poor video?

​Canon is already doing that - "its a dslr and not a video camera".  And people are starting to take the hint.  That's why canon is not selling as many camera's as they use to.  Sony and panasonic on the other hand are saying, "hey, you can take images and video with our cameras.  Let me show you".  People are listening and they are BUYING.

[Husah]

So, video...

​Video market, especially DSLR video, is tiny. This camera is clearly directed towards still photos. It has too many pixels to do proper video without skipping too many pixels. 

[mtheory]

Someone really needs to sit people down and explain that a DSLR is not a video camera. Apparently a lot of people still don't seem to understand that.

You don't complain about video cameras taking crappy stills, why do you continue to complain about stills cameras taking poor video?

​Umm...because 5D Mark II revolutionized the industry?  

[Husah]

​Umm...because 5D Mark II revolutionized the industry?  

A short stint for tiny market. ​But now there are many mirrorless cameras and dedicated camcorders with large sensors, which weren't around in 2008, 

 People overestimate the significance of DSLR for video market. This remains a very tiny (probably insignificant percentage error level) market. 

DSLR remains primarily a photo camera. 

 

[Husah]

​Canon is already doing that - "its a dslr and not a video camera".  And people are starting to take the hint.  That's why canon is not selling as many camera's as they use to.  Sony and panasonic on the other hand are saying, "hey, you can take images and video with our cameras.  Let me show you".  People are listening and they are BUYING.

​​Canon sells 8 times more DSLRs than all Sony and Panasonic miirrorless cameras combined

[HurtinMinorKey]

Someone really needs to sit people down and explain that a DSLR is not a video camera. Apparently a lot of people still don't seem to understand that.

You don't complain about video cameras taking crappy stills, why do you continue to complain about stills cameras taking poor video?

​No improvement in DR after 7 years in unforgivable...for a stills camera. 

[eleison]

​​Canon sells 8 times more DSLRs than all Sony and Panasonic miirrorless cameras combined

​

Rebels mostly...  But, hey, if Canon thinks they can continue to count on the average consumer buying  their stuff EVEN THOUGH their products have gotten progressive worse compared to the competition -- so be it.  Average consumer buys mostly on brand, and right now canon is throwing away their brand for a quick buck :-)

[Oliver Daniel]

Canon will announce 56,312 cameras at NAB. 

3 of them will shoot 4k. 

2 will have higher frame rates. 

1 of them will be affordable. 

On the other stand, Blackmagic will steal all the thunder again. They release the "URSA Pocket" that can actually transform into a full-size URSA if you stick it at the front of one with a HDMi connection. It also has mini wheels as a pointless gimmick.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Let's first say I am not agreeing with the notion that stills DSLRs should be used only for photography and that we videographers shouldn't look at them, every stills camera now is expected to do both at a very high level, that's what I expect fron Canon, Nikon, Panasonic and Sony. If they release a camera that falls short in one of those are, like the 5Ds that falls in the video front, then I am going to critisize them and request they up the video quality in that new video-shooting camera body. BUT, there are exceptions that I can tolerate, these excpetions are if the stills side is the best on the market, I can tolerate that with medium format cameras, with the pentax d640z, a7r, etc... There's no other camera on the market from any manufacturer that does 50mp 35mm stills that has great video, so I can tolerate the 5Ds not being a great video performer, and will leave it to landscape/studio professionals. 

 

Am I happy about it? no. It's an exception I will take but I truly hope it doesn't happen too often in the future, and that all their dslr line up would improve video performance along side the stills performance. 

 

My situation on Canon, as a videographer, is that I am not happy, as there's no good video cameras under 4-5k while the competetion is giving that. So I will tolerate the 5Ds not being a great video camera, but only if they do bring me a great video camera now or in a very soon release that can conpete with the sub 4K market sony/samsung/panasonic offerings, if they dont do that, they are falling behind the competetion, simple logic. 

 

Let us have a great video shooter that's also a great stills camera. Let it be a 5D mk IV with C100-like 1080p or a 5Dc that does 4K like a mini 1Dc. 

 

Oh and I've giuven up on the lower end line below the 6D/5D with the release of the 7D mk II and now 750D. They are now on par or slightly better than the Nikon APS-C line and eliminated aliasing/moirr and offered DPAF, I am just not satisfied with either these APS-C video resolution. So get your act together and start giving us sharp video on APS-C bodies instead of just catching up with Nikon, who are themselves falling behind the competetion. But again, I've given up on that apsc line since the realease of the 7D mk II, it means there are still a few years before any improvments come along, so now our only hope is the 5D/6D lines. 

 

see how back and forth and how confused a Canon user is? that's me. It's just a fact that Canon still doesn't give me a worthy video quality upgrade from the ancient 550D, which delivers a very similar image to the latest 5D mk III and 7D mk II, same resolution, colour, just less aliasing and a little better lowlight performance, not a worthy uphrade at all to most video shooters, and that's why canon hasn't been selling lots of camera bodies lately, they did'nt male worthy enough upgrades yet. 

 

Just a side note, if you are a videographer and don't need the stills, Canon has a lovely C100 now selling for the 5Ds price range. But that's only if you don't need stills, it's the only Canon camera that delivers great quality that's comparable to the competetion, now we need something lower priced and shoots stills. Do it!

[theSUBVERSIVE]

As an overall POV about Canon I agree but I think that these new "5D" are far from being a symbol of that. I mean, who would really expect great video from a 50MP sensor? Canon is simply addressing a gap in their DSLR line up, they took sometime, but they noticed that the D800/36MP had its appeal because of the extra MP, so they pushed it harder. No true videographer would want to buy this camera for video even if it had some of the things the 5D MKIII had. Let's say Canon had innovated in video recently, this camera would still be launched without video in mind. But yeah, the overall scenario from Canon is quite conservative and extremely counter-innovative and in the long term I can't see that being a good thing - for anyone. As for th sensor, I read that i's Canon design but manufactured by Sony but it seems that it performs just like recent Canon sensors, not really on par with Sony's sensors.

[estarkey7]

Why don't you complain that SONY didn't make any improvements in still images in their FS7 camera?

I think Canon did right when split their products to still and video lines. They did this right!

​I think everyone is forgetting some important points with economies of scale and electronic production. For the price they have settled on with this model, they should add a couple hundred bucks and and all the video features and not come out with a new model. It is very expensive to have new tooling, inventories, production schedules, testing, marketing, to just deviate from a particular model just a bit. 

For those users that hate video features, they should rework their menu system based on if the user prefers a video perspective or a stills photo perspective. That would hush 85% of the complaints.

[leeys]

​No improvement in DR after 7 years in unforgivable...for a stills camera. 

​Hey, given the response on various Canon forums, I think they'll sell just as well. After all, "no one can see DR differences".

[theSUBVERSIVE]

From Canon Rumors:

Cinema EOS
NAB is in April, and we’re told Canon will be making it a major announcement show this year. We’re told the Cinema EOS C300 will get a replacement and that it will shoot 4K. We haven’t received the same confirmation about an EOS C500 replacement. We’re also told there’s a chance Canon shows a new style of Cinema EOS camera, which would become the flagship and compete directly with the Arri Alexa.

I suspect there will be a lens or two announced, though we haven’t heard anything.

Other Video Products at NAB
We’re told that Canon will announce a GH4 competitor for NAB. It will be some kind of 4K ILC camera, we’ve heard the camera will have swappable parts, such as the grip and the viewfinder. We have no information on what lens mount it would be. We are told that it’s an “entry level” cinema product.

We’re also told a fixed lens Cinema EOS C100 style camera is coming and could be called the XC-10 (this could change), and that it will shoot 4K. Since it will have a fixed lens, I doubt it’s part of the Cinema EOS family.

We will be at NAB this year and hope to bring some fresh content with a few partners.

I'm a bit skeptical about this GH4 competitor, what does that mean? It doesn't make any sense. Something below C100 for $1500 but better than the C100? Will it even be an EOS-C camera? How is this camera become a GH4 competitor? Do they intent to use their poor 1.5" sensor? They don't know what mount? It almost feels like this rumor should be ignored completely because nothing makes sense.

[Policar]

It's rare that print photographers need more than 10 stops of DR. For the longest, they were shooting Velvia, with 4-5. (And it looks awesome.) Or Provia, which is just slightly better. For tone mapping and sloppy online stuff I can see the desire for great spec. The Sony sensors do have a nice "smooth" feel, but DR is overrated for stills (and this is a stills camera).

DR is still pretty crucial for video. The 1DC and CX00 aren't half bad for DR, though. Solid 12 stops and nice roll-off and noise floor. (Vs F5's sketchy 14 stops and ugly noise and shitty roll-off.... but still a legitimate 1.5 stops better DR.)

The "fine detail" scene mode is encouraging. Canon's mushy debayer algorithm is responsible for the difference in sharpness between 5D III video and 5D III raw video. Whatever future models include this scene file setting will be a lot sharper. Adequately so.

The dampened mirror is also an awesome innovation.

And their new lenses are great.

But they clearly are lagging on sensor and processor tech.

If I had the money and the new 45mm TSE and 90mm TSE were out already, I'd consider ditching my 4x5 kit for them. 

[Clayton Moore]

A comment that  caught my attention.  That its much more challenging for professional photographers to make a good living now more then ever.  Thats a thought thats not unimportant in that the market has shrunk. 

 

One of my close friends spent a few years working as a wedding photographer, super talented and very busy and making good money has seen some slowdown.  He has friends who are hurting and those people wont be buying a new Canon anytime soon.  In fact comments are now about what NIKON is doing.

 

 

I think that the 5D MK II started a video revolution by accident.  

I think it caught Canon by surprise.  

I think they road the wave sold a bunch 5Ds and rebels and more importantly glass.

I think they used this wave to build out there Cinema line.

I don’t think they were never comfortable keeping the video beat going in DLRS period for whatever reason.  

 

Problem is the market is evolving very fast and the market it not the same now as it was 5 years ago.  Not in terms of technology and not in terms of who is buying cameras now and how many of them there are and for what purpose.  Canon is too conservative and moves to slow for whats going on now…… they may end up paying a heavy price.