Canon 5DS takes a backwards step for video - severe rolling shutter, moire and lack of uncompressed HDMI

[Franka Mech T. Lieu]

My situation on Canon, as a videographer, is that I am not happy, as there's no good video cameras under 4-5k while the competetion is giving that. So I will tolerate the 5Ds not being a great video camera, but only if they do bring me a great video camera now or in a very soon release that can conpete with the sub 4K market sony/samsung/panasonic offerings, if they dont do that, they are falling behind the competetion, simple logic. 

.....

 

Just a side note, if you are a videographer and don't need the stills, Canon has a lovely C100 now selling for the 5Ds price range. But that's only if you don't need stills, it's the only Canon camera that delivers great quality that's comparable to the competetion, now we need something lower priced and shoots stills. Do it!

​Guess you said it yourself already .. we do not really need the Photographic oriented DSLR to be the hybrid, Instead why not made a C-100 development that can capture Still ( just RAW and Basic RAW+(Fine)JPEG would be good enough, no need for all the fancies ), and speaking of that the writing is on the wall, DSLR just do not made a good hybrid, Mirrorless is better. I would like to see Nikon and Canon to launch FF mirrorless that's more true hybrid ( and also photographic specific bodies too ). Or just slim down the 1Dc for doing that .. Might be Canon can have Sony's 12MP FF sensor inside the A7s for the made too. Might be even ditching the mirror to made it a mirrorless EF mount body ... 

I think most here forget that Canon had 2 EOS lineup, the EOS, and the Cine-EOS. IMHO the Cine-EOS is more suited as a platform to develop the true downmarket hybrid. Leaving the EOS to do what it had been doing well for decades. Still Canon need to have some real break through in the sensor side first and foremost. And further to that , the Lens lineup urgently need some improvement and replacement to catch up .. that old 180 Macro that's so good then now looks challenged for the need ( both still and video )

[leeys]

It's rare that print photographers need more than 10 stops of DR. For the longest, they were shooting Velvia, with 4-5. (And it looks awesome.) Or Provia, which is just slightly better. For tone mapping and sloppy online stuff I can see the desire for great spec. The Sony sensors do have a nice "smooth" feel, but DR is overrated for stills (and this is a stills camera).

Here we go again: I shot with Velvia, Provia and E100S. It was so easy to screw up that I had a light meter as well, in addition to using the camera's spot meter. I don't want to go back there.

I was reviewing a Nikon D810, and freaking Highlight Priority is amazing. Guess what allows that to be usable? That's right, the increased DR of the D810's sensor.

Plus, there are many post-processing techniques that are made better with high DR. I use a Nikon V2 in a specialised role and it definitely is a lot more limited than what I can do with my Sony-based cameras.

[Franka Mech T. Lieu]

It's rare that print photographers need more than 10 stops of DR. For the longest, they were shooting Velvia, with 4-5. (And it looks awesome.) Or Provia, which is just slightly better. For tone mapping and sloppy online stuff I can see the desire for great spec. The Sony sensors do have a nice "smooth" feel, but DR is overrated for stills (and this is a stills camera).

DR is still pretty crucial for video. The 1DC and CX00 aren't half bad for DR, though. Solid 12 stops and nice roll-off and noise floor. (Vs F5's sketchy 14 stops and ugly noise and shitty roll-off.... but still a legitimate 1.5 stops better DR.)

The "fine detail" scene mode is encouraging. Canon's mushy debayer algorithm is responsible for the difference in sharpness between 5D III video and 5D III raw video. Whatever future models include this scene file setting will be a lot sharper. Adequately so.

The dampened mirror is also an awesome innovation.

And their new lenses are great.

But they clearly are lagging on sensor and processor tech.

If I had the money and the new 45mm TSE and 90mm TSE were out already, I'd consider ditching my 4x5 kit for them. 

​Humbly I disagree , I used to do chemical wet darkroom, and now I do my own digital and print myself. DR is very crucial in all cases. Yes its true that old timer photographic paper usually can't muster 10 stop ( in fact that's why the good old zone system are based upon ) But having the DR is important . especially we have digital now and this is the same for Still as well for Video. Truely any over exposed or underexposed part of a capture just mean there's no data to work on. where if the DR allows, a capture that have data that's not over blown or true black means something to work on and thus allow possibility to extract something. In fact still capture demands loads of DR ( ever try photographing someone under the tree's shade in midday sun , guess what the face and the sky can be miles apart )

That's also why many old film users are not very keen on using those Velvia .. Astia-F or a good Neg film can just capture that much more. And Velvia, even the old Fujichrome-50 as its called way back had way more than 4-5 stops. But indeed Canon is truly showing their limitations here. Just up the photosite density on the sensor is not going to do them at all the goods needed.

 

[Husah]

​

Rebels mostly...  But, hey, if Canon thinks they can continue to count on the average consumer buying  their stuff EVEN THOUGH their products have gotten progressive worse compared to the competition -- so be it.  Average consumer buys mostly on brand, and right now canon is throwing away their brand for a quick buck :-)

​it's not just Rebels. All Canon DSLRs have much larger sales (we are talking factors more, not just tiny percentage more). The difference is like 10 to 1 or higher. 

GH series isn't best seller (for example Oly sold far more EM5). Video market is really insignificant.  

[ebo]

Finally a high megapixel dslr from Canon, great solution for those who can't afford Hasselblad, Phase one etc. for video:  there are enough different options.

[mtheory]

A short stint for tiny market. ​But now there are many mirrorless cameras and dedicated camcorders with large sensors, which weren't around in 2008, 

 People overestimate the significance of DSLR for video market. This remains a very tiny (probably insignificant percentage error level) market. 

DSLR remains primarily a photo camera. 

 

You cannot shoot a feature film and release it to millions of viewers across cinemas with a photo camera. They did with a 5D.

You cannot shoot a prime TV series and release it to millions of viewers on cable TV with a photo camera. They did with a 5D.

The industry already changed, and the debate has already been settled, a DSLR will never be just a photo camera. Don't spit against the wind.

[Andrew Reid]

​it's not just Rebels. All Canon DSLRs have much larger sales (we are talking factors more, not just tiny percentage more). The difference is like 10 to 1 or higher. 

GH series isn't best seller (for example Oly sold far more EM5). Video market is really insignificant.  

This is a statement you really need to prove by stating the hard figures. Otherwise you're just guessing!

That's what I suspect this is, basically a guess.

If video is such a small market why does my local photography store in Berlin stock Blackmagic cinema cameras, Samyang cine lenses and the GH4?!

[andy lee]

Canon are making a product for their core market - stills photos and 50mp is its selling point on this model ...and people will buy it just for that

so this camera is not so hot for video - there are plenty of other options out there - so Im not that bothered ......

I use Canons for stills and Pannys for video ....it works for me

518

[Andrew Reid]

Canon seem to be getting by on minimal innovation though...

Stick a big megapixel count sensor in the 5D Mark III.... barely change anything.... but it looks like a big change because of the huge headline spec shouting 50MP!!

Stick an EOS M 3 out there, but don't bother selling it in the US and base the body design on the horrible G1X Mark II. What's the point?

Chasing sales figures I suppose.

Let's see what happens at NAB. Probably can't afford what happens at NAB but let's see anyway

[mtheory]

 

Let's see what happens at NAB. Probably can't afford what happens at NAB but let's see anyway

​LOL. Better start selling some of your gear! 

[Nikkor]

​LOL. Better start selling some of your gear! 

​Totally, sell all the photographic lenses ,obsolete cameras,and get some super speed t1.3 set

[mtheory]

Cinema EOS
NAB is in April, and we’re told Canon will be making it a major announcement show this year. We’re told the Cinema EOS C300 will get a replacement and that it will shoot 4K. We haven’t received the same confirmation about an EOS C500 replacement. We’re also told there’s a chance Canon shows a new style of Cinema EOS camera, which would become the flagship and compete directly with the Arri Alexa.

http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/02/whats-next-from-canon-nab-and-beyond/

I think they will have to bust out internal RAW if they want to sell anything above C300. 

[Policar]

Here we go again: I shot with Velvia, Provia and E100S. It was so easy to screw up that I had a light meter as well, in addition to using the camera's spot meter. I don't want to go back there.

I was reviewing a Nikon D810, and freaking Highlight Priority is amazing. Guess what allows that to be usable? That's right, the increased DR of the D810's sensor.

Plus, there are many post-processing techniques that are made better with high DR. I use a Nikon V2 in a specialised role and it definitely is a lot more limited than what I can do with my Sony-based cameras.

[removed by moderator] the Nikon cameras are available if you need them. The extra DR certainly isn't a bad thing, I just don't find it useful (for stills).

[removed by moderator]

[Andrew Reid]

I think they will have to bust out internal RAW if they want to sell anything above C300. 

​Most C300 owners don't want raw though, they need a fast turn around and an edit ready codec, also to pass files easily in a compatible way between lots of various monkeys.

I think the C300 will be getting a very incremental update... better EVF and screen, ergonomic improvements, definitely higher frame rates and only if we're lucky 4K internal (it has to compete with the FS7).

C500 on the other hand could be repositioned as a real beast to rival the Alexa.

Or maybe they will do the utterly boring approach of...

C300 Mk II 1080p, few tiny changes and 60p

C500 4K internal, erm that's it.

Wouldn't surprise me. This is what Canon seems to do when they have a success on their hands... freeze it in time!

[terozzz]

[Clayton Moore]

Ebrahim :

I agree with you on the video camera price point comment.  Not just a hybrid camera at all but a video camera at a sub $4,000 price.  

[leeys]

 [removed by moderator]

Ah, yes, belittling those whom you think are inferior, way to show your superiority.

Next thing you'll be on is that digital is bunk, we should be shooting film, right?

Or that hey, we don't need central heating, we can use fires, it worked in 1800s!

Advances are good for many things, and other people can find them to be useful. Just because YOU don't know how to use it, doesn't mean others can.

I'm really miffed right now, because I'm really sick of closed-minded people like you.

[leo]

Samsung and panasonic are ruining nikon's and canon's market, they give it all as soon as the tech is available, it must be very frustrating for them, hehehe.

The number one question, why canon doesn't give in with the 4k and stuff, because they have a large base of clients, captive in their lens system, when it will be absolutely necessary, embarrassingly obvious they need to offer 4k, in that moment when people are at the point of selling every piece of canon glass, only then they will bring a cheap to make 4k camera, overpriced of course.

 

[zenpmd]

IT IS NOT A CAMERA FOR VIDEO. IT IS NOT A CAMERA FOR VIDEO. ITS LIKE COMPLAINING A TRACTOR WONT DRIVE FAST.

[zenpmd]

Canon seem to be getting by on minimal innovation though...

Stick a big megapixel count sensor in the 5D Mark III.... barely change anything.... but it looks like a big change because of the huge headline spec shouting 50MP!!

Stick an EOS M 3 out there, but don't bother selling it in the US and base the body design on the horrible G1X Mark II. What's the point?

Chasing sales figures I suppose.

Let's see what happens at NAB. Probably can't afford what happens at NAB but let's see anyway

​Canons AF is still better than anything Nikon make. The D4s only just caught up, very roughly, with the 1dx, and the 5dmk3 is still better than the d750 as shown in numerous tests.

Canon has the fastest AF lenses, for example their 35mm 1.4 is faster than Nikons, and the 135 is LOADS faster. 85 1.8 is faster than Nikons 1.8 too. 

What innovation do you need or what exactly, from a stills perspective? Dont get me wrong, id like to see innovation, who doesn't, but its still the basics that are most important: ergonomics, af, low light, and Canon excel at it.