Samsung NX1 vs Canon C300

[rak_heri]

 Also it is a question of color science. I just couldn't get what I wanted from the GH4. And then the autofocus - especially with the 16-50mm S. For me it is a game changer. Makes my life so easier.

​How do you like the NX1 colors neosushi? As good as Canon?

[Tim Naylor]

 

The most challenging aspect of a modern digital camera is skin tones: we notice right away when they aren't good. Resolution, moire, dynamic range, highlights/shadows- most people don't notice so much. When skin tones are off, everyone notices. When skin tones look great- everyone loves the image. That's why the 5D3, even with H.264 is still popular with a relatively soft image.

I can understand there's a lot more work for camera tests shooting models/actors, however a camera test without skin tones, the most important test for the viewing public, doesn't really show how most people, both pros and consumers, will use the cameras (cats & dogs not included). To minimize the workload, setting the cameras to the best in-camera settings possible (or even selecting the best stock options- no tweaks), setting correct WB and exposure, and shooting in the same conditions makes a great camera test when comparing two or more cameras (no color work in post other than matching levels on the scopes, and converting all cameras to Rec709).

​A face with a color chart are essential in all comparative IQ tests. 

[Tim Naylor]

​Something has changed at Samsung, they are listening well. Maybe they are even spying on us through their TVs!? Did anyone say they wanted Gamma DR whilst watching Game of Thrones with S-voice turned on!?

They are listening to their phone enthusiasts too.

This is the first time a big company has placed so much more emphasis on the feedback from power users rather than from general consumers and focus groups. And it will work to their advantage, massively.

​Will definitely give this camera a shot. I've been a Samsung fan since I bought a 53" Plasma from them a few years back. Still the best colors I've ever seen on a TV. 

[Oliver Daniel]

The Samsung NX1 needs more skilled users. I always rent before I buy, but I can't find anywhere to rent it in the UK. I can't judge it from the few clips online because it doesn't have the support yet. 

My crew want to purchase an FS7 instead of renting it all the time, mostly because of the high DR and 150fps. It's going to cost £10k to get the basic bits we need after tax offset. 95% of our gear is made specifically for DSLR size or smaller. 

The NX1 is compelling because it has many bells and whistles (including 100fps), costs £1299, and would leave us £8k to buy more lights, lenses and other gadgets to improve overall cinematography. But it's very different to the FS7. I know where I am with that camera.

[Tim Naylor]

​Fuck off!   That is my response to that.

This is a gear head website, if we weren't interested in the minutiae of technical camera specifications and capabilities, then why would we be here?

​Well put. I come to this site because I learn things about small and inexpensive cameras that we don't regularly test or use on set. Last week I shot an AMEX commercial with an F55 but we also used a BMCPC as well for a different look. Much of the info on that cam came from sites like this. For the past month, I'm on a TV show where we use Amira's all day but guess what, we also break out the A7s and Go Pros from time to time. Again this site and several others help pros get a handle on emerging tech. I'm actually considering shooting my next feature on A7s (even though we have the choice of Arri's). While I do think we sometimes over analyze  specs here and not just look at what great pics a camera makes, I find this site at the forefront of smaller, lighter and more versatile tech. Any pro who ignores these things will be left one day wondering why the phone stopped ringing.

[Jimmy]

Even at £4500 its still a much worse image than a £1299 Samsung!

​Sure, if you only shoot in rec709... or unless you care about resolution more than DR, highlight roll off, 4:4:2, rolling shutter, low light

And NDs, XLRs and all around ergonomics and video features

Do you have an NX1 guide about to be released, by any chance?

 

[DigitalEd]

You can buy ND filters that work better then the in camera ones for very little i use one all the time and can dial it in to what i want as i shoot or take it off,  The NX1 is quite good in low light only one i can think of that is better is the Sony A7S that you need another $2000 to be able to record 4K with and still ND filters and XLR., A XLR adapter is only $ 200 to $300. DR dose not seems to be a problem with the NX1 at all. Rolling shutter can be a problem but it is a problem with other cameras as well in 4k and in HD it is not much of a problem at all.

So for $400 you can out fit the NX1 with ND filter and XLR. and buy two of this setup for less or.

Buy one of this set up and buy the Pocket version that will be out soon as a second camera and a smaller lower cost Gimble for it and more lens all for less then what you would pay for that $4500 so you would be able to shoot two cameras and have a gimble and more lens or more lights. That is the direction i am going in. Plus your image quality will be better. And your auto focus when you ever want to use it will be better. The Samsung 16x50 F 2 to 2.8 lens is a very sharp lens and gives you image stabilizing in video that work well, auto focus and focus on and off so you can punch in focus using the camera in a split second then lock that focus much faster then doing it manual or you can do it manual if you need to do a smooth focus from one item to another. Focus peaking also works very good when manual focusing a Samsung lens or other brand lens with adapter on it.

It focus so well i sent back the Fallow focus set up i had got for a refund.

Touch focus on the back screen and it will focus on anything you touch on very good for product or in studio shooting or a live event you need to focus on different things fast it is like having hard stops but on anything you want at any time. You can touch focus and then press a manual focus on to lock that focus in. Lots of cool things this camera can do people do not talk about. You could have the camera on a tripod and be shooting a band or anything and touch focus on any member at any time as you wish with no manual focus needed. The auto focus for flowing a person walking is quite good even with them coming at you. When you want to lock focus on something it is so easy letting the camera do the focus and then locking that focus over doing it manual you can go from one item to the next auto focus lock focus very fast this would be very hard to do manual.

Only down side is the file converting time but you get used to it. I have recorded well over 100 hours now with it. Battery life is ok to.

[Jimmy]

I really need to get my hands on one. 

I need a lightweight camera for my trip to Iceland in March and, on paper, this ticks some serious boxed. As you can imagine though, Iceland can be unforgiving in terms of lighting (sun on ice against lava black rock, for example)... Which is why I am obsessing over the DR.

I'll be taking the BMPCC too, so I guess DR is covered on some shots.

As it stands, the decision is between the NX1, 1DC, A7s or possibly a BMPC(4K) 

Decisions, decisions.

[agolex]

DigitalEd has more than just one point. The NX1 does open up a lot of possibilities. Just the touch focus with the settable speed is groundbreaking (especially considering that Samsung just did that a few weeks after people asked for it). Course you can say that real cinematographers don't use auto focus and stuff, but then you might argue what 'real cinematographer' means in the first place. Can't say I see a lot of innovative and real artful stuff around nowadays (I might go as far as saying that art is dying, but that's another subject), so I might at least get the basics like focus right. As a one man band without a dedicated focus puller or even the quite clumsy follow focus (it is, if you wanna go solo and really light), it's a helluva feature to have this darned innovative touch AF with selectable speed.

At first I couldn't give the NX1 a real chance because of the flicker issue (stuff like that is an absolute No-Go for me). So I got an a7s again and I hated hated hated the ergonomics. Besides that I thought about how backwaterish Sony is in terms of software and I've always felt them to be an arrogant company with not much of a consumer friendly attitude. So I've sent the a7s back again and ordered the NX1 once more. And I'm really looking forward to wielding it again. With the vertical grip it's almost as perfect in my hands as the Canon 6D which I found unbeatable in terms of handling.

What Samsung are doing is really disruptive and I love that. If they keep going in that pace, I'd say they will be a game changer like Blackmagic. Can't say that about Canon and probably never will.

Oh, but Samsung peeps, I have one request from the bottom of my heart: do give the Android app great image quality (at best above 1080p resolution) with the fast CPU and wi-fi module it's really a pity not to have that. Sony imho are the only ones who've pulled that off. Try the Play Memories App with the a7s, the image quality is stellar. Unfortunately it's basically unusable, because you can't shoot with picture profiles and real manual settings (which I doubt Sony will ever fix). So please, cater to all the one man bands and give us a sweet app that is a much better option to a clumsy HDMI monitor. : )

[anchoricex]

Apologize for the noob question, but what is the difference between UHD and regular 1080p shooting? 

[lafilm]

Not sure I've ever heard anyone so down on the ergo of the A7s.

What exactly is the problem? Seems much easier to handle/operate/focus (with all the in camera assists) than any Canon or Nikon dslr..including the 1D C.

Speaking of the 1D C, it's still shocking after 2 yrs Canon has not added a firmware update with Zebras, Peaking, and 2:35 scope.

NAB 2015 is the year of the Canon sequels.

[agolex]

Not sure I've ever heard anyone so down on the ergo of the A7s.

What exactly is the problem? Seems much easier to handle/operate/focus (with all the in camera assists) than any Canon or Nikon dslr..including the 1D C.

​I've only started last year with filming, I probably wouldn't have had the nerve for it before, because it would have been too fiddly and complicated for me. I've only this year finally gotten to having a PC that works the way I desire it to be (speed-wise and so on) and I've been building my own PCs for 20 years. Seems, I'm a bit picky, too.

Problem with the a7s: I hate the body. It's too small, it's too thin, it's made to look cool and be small/light, not to be used (IMHO). With the vertical grip it was OKish, but with a bigger lens still horrible (the vertical grip has quite medieval build quality, as well). I don't like the wheels. The record button is absolutely retarded. There were too many restrictions in the menu; you're in this mode can't do that, yadda yadda. I'm just generally someone who is quite anal about usability and when stuff doesn't make sense to me, I just can't tolerate it. Like I said, I've started last year with photography and filming. First Canon 6D (loved how it felt in my hands and everything), then Nikon D800, not as great, but still good and I preferred the controls after some getting used to them. Then a few weeks ago, before getting the first a7s, I saw this video of a photographer who raved about how bad Nikon and Canon are and how Sony has revolutionized his way of shooting (dunno, he seemed to be some sort of fanatic or just payed by Sony). Then I got the a7s and was so underwhelmed by the body and controls. I did love the picture, though, I mean that's why I bought it in the first place. I saw the Castle video by Ed David and thought wawaweewa, that's my camera! Especially under bad conditions, shot a lot of video inside my flat at first and it was all really usable, can't say that about the other cameras I've tested (GH4 and NX1). But shooting pictures with it felt horrible. The Nikon to me has great tactility, I love the shutter sound, it just feels right. Although shooting stars with the a7s and an Android tablet is an absolute breeze due to the high resolution live view.

The NX1 felt great for shooting pictures as well, it just fits nicely into my hands and I like the shutter. The grip is high quality and thought out well. You can have three batteries at a time.

[MattH]

Apologize for the noob question, but what is the difference between UHD and regular 1080p shooting? 

​UHD is Ultra high definition or Quad HD.  Its 4 times the resolution of 1080. twice as wide, twice as tall.  When the vast majority of people say 4k they mean UHD.

As for what the difference is specifically in the NX1:  UHD will give an extremely detailed picture even when down-scaled to 1080p in an editor.  It will also be a cleaner image mostly free of moire and aliasing.  The downside is the rolling shutter, which will result in things slanting when you pan and micro jitters if the lens isn't stabilized.  1080p will give a noticeably less detailed image, but still ok compared to a canon dslr.  There will be more aliasing and some moire in certain circumstances, but the upside is that there will be virtually no rolling shutter problems so it will be fine to move the camera about quite freely.

[Jed I. Clampett]

One big negative (no pun intended) of the Samsung is that it cannot be edited natively in my NLE of choice, in addition there is not intermediary transcoding codec and from every review the one from Samsung really sucks. They solve this problem and someone gives me options and I am all over this camera and its baby brother. You would think that Samsung would have a steller transcoding option that we would be raving about for its shock and awe, but at present it is a camera whose footage cannot be edited by me and I am not changing my computer and NLE of choice to use this camera.

 

[Tim Naylor]

Not sure I've ever heard anyone so down on the ergo of the A7s.

What exactly is the problem? Seems much easier to handle/operate/focus (with all the in camera assists) than any Canon or Nikon dslr..including the 1D C.

Speaking of the 1D C, it's still shocking after 2 yrs Canon has not added a firmware update with Zebras, Peaking, and 2:35 scope.

NAB 2015 is the year of the Canon sequels.

​I have no issues with the A7s layout. Mine is permanently in a Movcam cage (best accessory ever). I never shoot video with it unless it's on my rig (18" 15mm rods, Wooden Camera hand held grips and an F&V monitor mounted on the cross bar with a counterweight in the back). It balances perfectly for hand held as well as on sticks. I use it for work and play. Sure this rig might seem a bit much for many here. But as someone who shoots Arri's all week long, it's a welcome relief. On occasion when I'm fooling around I'll shoot it "naked" (cage / top handle only) and just use the camera's EVF / Monitor. The results are fine but not reliable enough for paid work (meaning my focus isn't as good with the camera's EVF/monitor). Andrew on the other hand probably has younger eyes than mine and seems to work this mode fine. 

If you're one of those rig less shooters let me suggest using a cage such as Tilta's. The wooden handle will definitely improve the ergonomics immeasurably. I only wish it was around before I bought my movcam.

[neosushi]

​How do you like the NX1 colors neosushi? As good as Canon?

​I don't know if its as good, it does look a bit different. It is quite hard to describe. I guess it would be in between RED and Canon. It also depends how you set it up in camera, but then again I personally don't advise people to tune everything down. I think that some cameras are made to shoot super flat / raw type images, and others just produce damn nice colors right off the bat. 

So you save some time in post production for grading. But you have less flexibility than a A7s with log. But then again I'm not sure if I don't prefer Samsung colors  rather than Sony (never thought I'd say something like that lol).

[Brian Luce]

Not to go off topic, but the A7s is a bit awkward in terms of hitting REC. Others have the same complaint. I shoot 90% video, for a true hybrid shooter maybe it's okay, but if you do mostly vid, I can think of other cams with layouts I like better.

[Geoff CB]

On ergonomics: The goddamn record button is in the worst place possible on the Sony series of cameras. I shoot mainly doc style work that is mixed with photos. On my NX1 the image preview button set as video standby (can hit with my pinki), the wifi button set to record (hit with thumb), and the rear rotating command dial set to ISO. Set up like this I can be recording video and shooting photos without having to change my grip at all. Add this to the much more comfortable grip, it's no contest between the two in what I prefer.

[Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson]

I really need to get my hands on one. 

I need a lightweight camera for my trip to Iceland in March and, on paper, this ticks some serious boxed. As you can imagine though, Iceland can be unforgiving in terms of lighting (sun on ice against lava black rock, for example)... Which is why I am obsessing over the DR.

I'll be taking the BMPCC too, so I guess DR is covered on some shots.

As it stands, the decision is between the NX1, 1DC, A7s or possibly a BMPC(4K) 

Decisions, decisions.

​If you are in Reykjavik send me a message. Happy to assist a fellow EOSHD forumist.

[Ivar Kristjan Ivarsson]

​I have no issues with the A7s layout. Mine is permanently in a Movcam cage (best accessory ever). I never shoot video with it unless it's on my rig (18" 15mm rods, Wooden Camera hand held grips and an F&V monitor mounted on the cross bar with a counterweight in the back). It balances perfectly for hand held as well as on sticks. I use it for work and play. Sure this rig might seem a bit much for many here. But as someone who shoots Arri's all week long, it's a welcome relief. On occasion when I'm fooling around I'll shoot it "naked" (cage / top handle only) and just use the camera's EVF / Monitor. The results are fine but not reliable enough for paid work (meaning my focus isn't as good with the camera's EVF/monitor). Andrew on the other hand probably has younger eyes than mine and seems to work this mode fine. 
If you're one of those rig less shooters let me suggest using a cage such as Tilta's. The wooden handle will definitely improve the ergonomics immeasurably. I only wish it was around before I bought my movcam.

​

​I agree. I am also a rig user so the small size of the a7s is actually a plus for me. The menu system is not that horrible imho after you get the hang of it. When on the rig I find it not hard to hit the rec button but I have small slender fingers.

When photo shooting I use the battery grip. Yes I agree that the NX1 feels slightly better in hand and the battery grip for that is better build but the A7s is not bothering me at all.

I am getting lovely results with Slog and Filmconvert pro 2(love the new options).

Personally I am very happy with the images coming from the A7s.

Just my 2 cents. 

P.S. Off topic: I bought my A7s from the official Sony retailer here in Iceland. From what I have read, I thought the A7s was PAL/NTSC locked. But I can change to either without the warning message I have read about others getting.