GH4 or EM5MK2, What accompany's the A7S best?

[Hitfabryk]

Still got a few good M43 lenses and I want a replacement for my EM1.

At the moment I am not using the IBIS that much because the A7S has become my main can on tripod (on dolly) 

The EM1 is now on a tripod and not moving, the GM1 also.

But i want everything on 24 fps.. and the codec of the EM1 can be better.

So it has to go, I could get a EM5MK2 and still (for free work and family/holidays) enjoy the IBIS but the GH4 looks even more like a grownup filmcam.

Any thoughts?

[Cinegain]

To add a bit more liveliness to your studio recordings, you could get the camera to move around a bit freely. So the E-M5II would be kinda nice for that sort of B-roll.
Kinda depends if you have lenses with optical stabilization built-in or not if you could make that work with the GH4 as well. You could, alternatively, get the GH4 and lock it off on a tripod and cut down on the number of takes by punching in or adding smooth and subtle pans/tilts from the 4K footage. Eventually you can get both the A7S and GH4 to get you 4K footage for 4K projects as well... and worth noting is they can both shoot really flat.

So... it depends. There's something to say for both. For added motion I'd go with the E-M5II. For the 4K flexibility and like you say a bit more videominded character, the GH4, that whilst keeping in mind that if you were to get an external recorder for the A7S, then you'd also have two 4K capable cameras on hand.

Wild option: you could also ditch the A7S and get both the GH4 and E-M5II.

[Hitfabryk]

To add a bit more liveliness to your studio recordings, you could get the camera to move around a bit freely. So the E-M5II would be kinda nice for that sort of B-roll.
Kinda depends if you have lenses with optical stabilization built-in or not if you could make that work with the GH4 as well. You could, alternatively, get the GH4 and lock it off on a tripod and cut down on the number of takes by punching in or adding smooth and subtle pans/tilts from the 4K footage. Eventually you can get both the A7S and GH4 to get you 4K footage for 4K projects as well... and worth noting is they can both shoot really flat.

So... it depends. There's something to say for both. For added motion I'd go with the E-M5II. For the 4K flexibility and like you say a bit more videominded character, the GH4, that whilst keeping in mind that if you were to get an external recorder for the A7S, then you'd also have two 4K capable cameras on hand.

Wild option: you could also ditch the A7S and get both the GH4 and E-M5II.

​That's really a wild option..lol  I love the A7S already..it's my nr1 cam and can move on dolly tripod.

thanks for the 4K idea, and the option of tilts and pans from the 4k footage in a 1080 project, and indeed the possibility to have 2 4K recorders for the near future.

[Nick Hughes]

Just keep in mind that pans, tilts and punch ins from a 4k file don't have the same feel that you get from physically moving a camera. The perspective isn't changing and so the subtle visual cues that our brains pick up on with real perspective changes aren't there. The capability is still extremely useful, but shouldn't be treated as a replacement for an actual second angle, movement, etc.

 

 

[Cinegain]

Just another tool in the bag.

Here's Caleb putting something together with both A7S and GH4: http://dslrvideoshooter.com/a7s-gh4-music-video-production-breakdown/ .

[Hitfabryk]

Just another tool in the bag.

Here's Caleb putting something together with both A7S and GH4: http://dslrvideoshooter.com/a7s-gh4-music-video-production-breakdown/ .

​Thanks for the link.

Did you saw some GH4 vs EM5 mk2 video, somewhere?

[ntblowz]

There is one done by olympus to test the stabilization between OIS and IBIS, but the GH4 footage is so out of focus

[Jim Robinson]

Low light sucks on GH4 - way too much moving noise with high ISOs, basically anything shot with out good light, pretty much sucks. Looking into getting a metabones speedbooster in hopes of it helping in this regard. But if you shoot in good light or outside it can be awesome.  Also be careful taking advise on setting up the Profiles from Internet sources. Some are way off the mark. Cinelike D for post - Cinelike V for baked in look. Stay clear of bringing up shadows or master pedestal on camera - in most cases it just creates noise unless you have lots of light.

Pans with 4k and punch ins - may not be the same as doing them physically but if you shoot with 4k sometimes things get in the shot you don't want - say if you were shooting a wedding and a wedding photographer walks into your shot.  Saves the day when you can punch in - say to the bride in this case and then punch back out once the photographer is out of the shot. It is also the only way besides automation to get movement ( panning - zoom etc. ) in shots where the camera is unmanned or unwomanend. Focus is a consideration also - Can't fix Focus in post. So low light can be achieved on the GH4 but only when the Fstop is wide open which makes it even harder to keep things in focus. Dave Dougdale has a GH4 vs A7s video - the lack of Focus memory on the Sony is probably the only thing holding me back from purchasing a A7s.  I have a focus puller on a GH4 that works really well - I can mark a focus then point somewhere else - focus - shoot pan back and pull the focus to my mark and it works perfectly. From what I can see on Dave Dougdales review the Sony is easy to focus with peaking but - maneuvers as I described above don't seem to work.  Haven't tried this myself just going by his review.  Would be interested to know if that is true or not.

[Hitfabryk]

Low light sucks on GH4 - way too much moving noise with high ISOs, basically anything shot with out good light, pretty much sucks. Looking into getting a metabones speedbooster in hopes of it helping in this regard. But if you shoot in good light or outside it can be awesome.  Also be careful taking advise on setting up the Profiles from Internet sources. Some are way off the mark. Cinelike D for post - Cinelike V for baked in look. Stay clear of bringing up shadows or master pedestal on camera - in most cases it just creates noise unless you have lots of light.

Pans with 4k and punch ins - may not be the same as doing them physically but if you shoot with 4k sometimes things get in the shot you don't want - say if you were shooting a wedding and a wedding photographer walks into your shot.  Saves the day when you can punch in - say to the bride in this case and then punch back out once the photographer is out of the shot. It is also the only way besides automation to get movement ( panning - zoom etc. ) in shots where the camera is unmanned or unwomanend. Focus is a consideration also - Can't fix Focus in post. So low light can be achieved on the GH4 but only when the Fstop is wide open which makes it even harder to keep things in focus. Dave Dougdale has a GH4 vs A7s video - the lack of Focus memory on the Sony is probably the only thing holding me back from purchasing a A7s.  I have a focus puller on a GH4 that works really well - I can mark a focus then point somewhere else - focus - shoot pan back and pull the focus to my mark and it works perfectly. From what I can see on Dave Dougdales review the Sony is easy to focus with peaking but - maneuvers as I described above don't seem to work.  Haven't tried this myself just going by his review.  Would be interested to know if that is true or not.

​Thanks,

For focusing on the A7S, I don't use sony lenses..but older FD lenses and have no problem with the focus ( I am recording pop bands in my recording studio) 

I think the GH4 is a good cam to put next to the A7S and the GM1..Gh4 4k wide angle for total shot ( no operator) and option to zoom pan etc..

The GM1 for the drumset ( no operator)  and the A7S on a tripod with dolly for the moving shots.

[Flynn]

Both DP Review and The Camera Store (in their vid about the EM5ii on YouTube) say the improved Olympus 5 axis IBIS is good for 5 stops of stabilization. There's a comparison between the new 5 axis and the Panasonic 12-35 2.8 on YouTube that I posted in another thread. Simply put, the Olympus stabilization is incredible. And every old lens you put on the camera will be able to take advantage of it. I fully expect most people on here would go for the GH4 but I personally would rather have the EM5ii. That stabilization is gonna be so useful. Here's The Camera Store review:

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=0uQKYgQaNHQ

[Hitfabryk]

Both DP Review and The Camera Store (in their vid about the EM5ii on YouTube) say the improved Olympus 5 axis IBIS is good for 5 stops of stabilization. There's a comparison between the new 5 axis and the Panasonic 12-35 2.8 on YouTube that I posted in another thread. Simply put, the Olympus stabilization is incredible. And every old lens you put on the camera will be able to take advantage of it. I fully expect most people on here would go for the GH4 but I personally would rather have the EM5ii. That stabilization is gonna be so useful. Here's The Camera Store review:

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=0uQKYgQaNHQ

​Thanks Flynn,

The IBIS, is great but..the Gh4 seems much more detailed and for my studio shots (live band recordings in a well lit studio) that would be more useful..if I would buy it for home, free work, fun and holidays (all important) I would buy the EM5 mk2 without doubt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y2JHPedpe4

 

[Cinegain]

Both DP Review and The Camera Store (in their vid about the EM5ii on YouTube) say the improved Olympus 5 axis IBIS is good for 5 stops of stabilization. There's a comparison between the new 5 axis and the Panasonic 12-35 2.8 on YouTube that I posted in another thread. Simply put, the Olympus stabilization is incredible. And every old lens you put on the camera will be able to take advantage of it. I fully expect most people on here would go for the GH4 but I personally would rather have the EM5ii. That stabilization is gonna be so useful. Here's The Camera Store review:

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=0uQKYgQaNHQ

​Be careful in thinking it's 'just perfectly amazing' though. I mean... it can be. But there's some trickiness to it at the same time. Mathieu of Mirrorlessons did a good video on that:

[Hitfabryk]

​Be careful in thinking it's 'just perfectly amazing' though. I mean... it can be. But there's some trickiness to it at the same time. Mathieu of Mirrorlessons did a good video on that:

​I saw that too and indeed the IBIS is good but not flawless, thanks for posting.

[Nick Hughes]

​Be careful in thinking it's 'just perfectly amazing' though. I mean... it can be. But there's some trickiness to it at the same time. Mathieu of Mirrorlessons did a good video on that:

​Wow, in the second example where he's trying to do a still shot with the fountain in the foreground, there's a really weird parallax effect going on between the foreground and background. 

[Flynn]

Thanks for posting that Cinegain. I never thought it was perfect. Still consider it amazing though, especially for those who wish to travel light and don't want to rig up their camera. For me, I consider the issues he brings up to be relatively minor. They pale in comparison to the usefulness of it IMO.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

​
Wow really that looks unusable. There isn't a single shot where the stabilization does not induce an ugly digital artefact. I'd never be able to use that for actual production, Canon & Nikon & panasonic & sony lens IS show zero of these, much more usable.

Andrew, was the em-1 so bad? I remember I was blown away by the results, not this at all

[Flynn]

Weird, I found most of them to be usable/impressive. I guess our needs/expectations are just vastly different.

[jgharding]

​
Wow really that looks unusable. There isn't a single shot where the stabilization does not induce an ugly digital artefact. I'd never be able to use that for actual production, Canon & Nikon & panasonic & sony lens IS show zero of these, much more usable.

Andrew, was the em-1 so bad? I remember I was blown away by the results, not this at all

​Mode 1 is unusable, mode 2 is great i think.

Mode 1 is not really necessary, if you need more stabilisation you can do it in post with Warp Stabiliser or similar and have much more control

[animan]

​
Wow really that looks unusable. There isn't a single shot where the stabilization does not induce an ugly digital artefact. I'd never be able to use that for actual production, Canon & Nikon & panasonic & sony lens IS show zero of these, much more usable.

Andrew, was the em-1 so bad? I remember I was blown away by the results, not this at all

To me it seems just that you cant expect to throw the camera around like a madman and get good results, as long as you take some care about how you move the camera / give yourself some more points of contact with your body as you would with any other camera then I think results should be great!

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

The thing is, is it a great system in itself for casual consumers? Yes. Are there better stabilization system offered by the competition? Yes. Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Samsung all offer optical lens IS that have zero digital artefacts, none, so I can't say this is great. If it had zero artefacts like the other systems yes it would be huge as it works with all lenses. The only reason you'd settle for these artefacts is using vintage/manual glass, in which case it's better than nothing for non critical work. 

I am sure many will be less sensitive to these artefacts but I just am, I am already dealing with digital artefacts that make my footage non-film like, aliasing, moire, rolling shutter, compression blocking, harsh blown highlights, artificially enhanced edges, fringing, aberrations, and adding this weird motion shifting artefact would really bother me, I am just already suffering with digital images..