KineMAX 6K specs and raw footage

[DBounce]

Is it just me or does this sensor seem rather dark? I have yet to see any bright and lively images out of this camera.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

LOL. All the footage I've seen is dark too. Noticed it. No scene crosses like 70-80 IRE but very very few. I think it because they're after a moody non-videoish look as first impression and no highlight clipping. I am 100% sure no such thing as a dark sensor, you can expose a sensor as dar/bright as you like either on set or in post.

[Robert Matthews]

LOL. All the footage I've seen is dark too. Noticed it. No scene crosses like 70-80 IRE but very very few. I think it because they're after a moody non-videoish look as first impression and no highlight clipping. I am 100% sure no such thing as a dark sensor, you can expose a sensor as dar/bright as you like either on set or in post.

​Yeah, I don't think that has anything to do with the sensor. I think it's just a grading choice.  Also worth noting is that none of the footage appears to have been shot on bright, sunny days, aside from the Bali footage, which is definitely brighter. Most of the footage shot so far has been done in Berlin on dreary, overcast days (not by choice). In fact, we have yet to see what happens when a subject is placed in direct sunlight and whether there are any problems with the highlights. In any case, I would like to see some footage with a brighter, more modern, contemporary grade.

[Robert Matthews]

I'm not getting any Ursa until I see the black hole sun issue fixed and if it behaves well with highlights and lowlights.

​The black hole problem is definitely fixed. They made a point of showing the sun in the first shot on the showreel, which is on their site:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursa

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Their grade is always at the lowest quarter of the waveform monitor for some reason.

Even the vimeo h.264 8bit 420 files are shockingly lovely to grade and push exposure anywhere, imagine the raw dngs at 6k!

It can be Nikon-happy.

[Ed_David]

I overall like the motion and grade on this stuff - I would be very curious to see a test with ursa 4.6k raw mdoe and others - like alexa - then we can start telling - just loving something you see that's graded is also the grading job done.

 

I've seen so many things on the red that are graded poorly and then things graded so well - it's just amazing what is possible on any camera by grade, dp, filttration, etc.

man I sound like a broken record

because I am one!

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Black hole is fixed with a single button press in Resolve (995$ software which you get for free with the URSA). So it's only really a problem if you're handing out the CFast card straight to a client viewing, something I doubt no ursa 4.6K owner will do, ever, there will be a grading step at some point. 

Not something to not buy a camera for.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

We need more reviews and real life tests for all these cameras in order to make a decision. The Cion, Ursa Mini, and Kinefinity, 

Remember though, these cameras are much more expensive than their qouted B&H price. Cheapest is the URSA mini as it just need power and CFast media to work well enough. But you need thousands more for the shoulder mount, arm extension, EVF, V-Lock/Anton Bauer batteries, Very expensive CFast 2.0 media (Like a couple thousands alone if you want a long day shoot)

Cion, you definitely need the EVF, you need an expensive lens mount, you need a V-lock/Anton bauer battery, you need their extremely expensive proprietery SSDs, 

with the Kinefinity, you need thousands of dollars to upgrade the ''license'' of the camera, the 5K one is a 1080p/720p camera, and goes up to 12K for the 6K version, plus all the previous power, media, rigging, audio expenses. 

All in all, unless you go for the barebones Ursa Mini with the old 4K sensor and shoot with the LCD, use one Card (ProRes LT), use a cheap Sony V-lock, this kit is like 3600$. 

But the Ursa mini 4.6K, Cion, Kine, they are all in the price range of the Sony FS7 (a killer camera) when all is said and done. 

C100 is a great shootable package (to SD media, included huge battery, great audio, NDs, perfect 1080p, perfect skin, better lowlight than all of these, at 2900$. I highly believe this is ''the'' upgrade for DSLR/mirrorless shooters, that one , And 4500$ for the Mark II which adds slowmotion, usable EVF and a generally better camera. 

C100 is a much cheaper camera in real life than the three of these. Don't be fooled by the inital B&H body price, some camera need nothing to work (C100/300/FS7) and some need a LOT to work (Ursa, Cion, Kine). 

Do the math before making a purchase. 

[DBounce]

Their grade is always at the lowest quarter of the waveform monitor for some reason.

Even the vimeo h.264 8bit 420 files are shockingly lovely to grade and push exposure anywhere, imagine the raw dngs at 6k!

It can be Nikon-happy.

Wow, wasn't sure it would hold together being pushed that far. Impressive.

[Joe Gunawan Fotosiamo]

yes, that overexposure is very, very impressive! That's one of the problems that I have with the Sony a7S and its Slog2. You really can't push the blacks up too much before it gets too noisy

[Ed_David]

It looks like a good camera but the recording options are data intensive - and until we have comparison videos lets talk about cameras that exist and how to make them better?  Isn't that more useful?

[DBounce]

yes, that overexposure is very, very impressive! That's one of the problems that I have with the Sony a7S and its Slog2. You really can't push the blacks up too much before it gets too noisy

Doesn't look blown out to me. This is not raw footage either. I think it shows considerable latitude.

[DBounce]

It looks like a good camera but the recording options are data intensive - and until we have comparison videos lets talk about cameras that exist and how to make them better?  Isn't that more useful?

This camera doesn't exist? What are you talking about?

[silvertonesx24]

Do the math before making a purchase. 

​This is true. I had planned for this even before purchasing a KineMini and still had to pretty much double what I thought it would be.

However, the accessories that you need to buy are generally good investments that will outlast the technology. Being able to power your whole rig- monitors, LED lights, camera, powered accessories, from one large battery for hours alone is an incredible improvement on set.

[silvertonesx24]

It looks like a good camera but the recording options are data intensive - and until we have comparison videos lets talk about cameras that exist and how to make them better?  Isn't that more useful?

​If you've decided to shoot in raw. it isn't really. Cineform Raw is smaller than Prores while still retaining raw metadata. Unfortunately unofficial metadata support in Resolve is buggy but hopefully it will improve.

[Robert Matthews]

 

with the Kinefinity, you need thousands of dollars to upgrade the ''license'' of the camera, the 5K one is a 1080p/720p camera, and goes up to 12K for the 6K version, plus all the previous power, media, rigging, audio expenses. 

 

​That's not actually true anymore. Kinefinity have/are changing the spec on what's included with their basic packages. Their "Starter" package is now $8999 and includes the following:

6K Raw Option

4K Hi Speed Option

Free Assimilate Scratch rental for a year

Kinestation

Dual 3G-SDI Monitoring Outputs

KineAudio

Integrated Battery Plate

KineMAG-120GB SSD

Movcam Upper Handgrip

 

The Kinemax works out roughly $2000 more expensive than the URSA Mini 4.6 when you add EVF and 1TB of media.

[Robert Matthews]

Additionally, at NAB, Kinefinity showed me in Scratch how gradable the footage is. They were able to make a nighttime shot of a train in a station look like daytime, with no visible noise (without pixel peeping) in the lowlights. I was impressed to say the least. 

[Robert Matthews]

More footage from Film Cyfrowy cutting Kinemax and Kinemini together:

 

[Marco Bentz]

I just received my Kinemax 6K. I did some tests and I must say I am positively surprised by the camera.

I do not know what will be the future of this camera but with the new deal that included the 6k and High-speed, kineAudio, KineMag 120GB etc ... Under 10k without tax, I think it remains competitive for a tool very powerful.

The Golden 3k expected to arrive this summer with the HI-speed 4K / sport mode and the KineAudio.

For now I can already say it s nice to work with the camera, very stimulating. The results are, in my point of view, very impressive. The CineForm workflow is convenient for shooting in documentary style. Nice menu. I am surprised by the sensitivity of the sensor. By filming in shoulder, I didnt had any problems with the rolling shutter. It was not hard core shooting.

Sorry for my english, i m working with my body Google Translate, together we almost write in english

I want to take time to share some shots soon...

 

[Robert Matthews]

I just received my Kinemax 6K. I did some tests and I must say I am positively surprised by the camera.

I do not know what will be the future of this camera but with the new deal that included the 6k and High-speed, kineAudio, KineMag 120GB etc ... Under 10k without tax, I think it remains competitive for a tool very powerful.

The Golden 3k expected to arrive this summer with the HI-speed 4K / sport mode and the KineAudio.

For now I can already say it s nice to work with the camera, very stimulating. The results are, in my point of view, very impressive. The CineForm workflow is convenient for shooting in documentary style. Nice menu. I am surprised by the sensitivity of the sensor. By filming in shoulder, I didnt had any problems with the rolling shutter. It was not hard core shooting.

Sorry for my english, i m working with my body Google Translate, together we almost write in english

I want to take time to share some shots soon...

 

​Marco, if you could please post some footage as soon as possible that would be awesome. Would love to know more about your experience with the camera when you've had more of a chance to use it. 

So does that mean KineAudio/Audio Module does not ship with the camera? I.e. are there no XLR inputs yet? (For those who don't know, you have to plug an adaptor into a special port on the camera to get XLR inputs).

Do you know if you're able to adjust the levels on the XLR audio inputs? Do you know what bit rate audio records in? 24-bit?