LED Lighting - Fresnels, Redheads etc

[richg101]

I'm hoping to invest in some lighting and think now might be a good time to look at LEDs.  I'm particularly interested in a 350w fresnel from Ianiro

http://www.ianirouk.com/product.php?ProductID=763

 

as well as a pair of matching 100w fresnels 

http://www.ianirouk.com/product.php?ProductID=772 

 

Has anyone here used such lighting or have any feedback on how they would compare to Arri tungstens or hmis  

 

I don;t want to have to deal with the issue of generators or taking special feeds from a ring main.  I just want to run lights off either an dc-ac inverter and some leisure batteries or from normal 13a sockets as found in the home.

I'm seeing a 95% CRI rating, and quoted tungsten/hmi equivalents, but in real life are they a worthwhile investment over say a set of 3 redheads which work out at about 1/4 the price for good condition used 800w jobs.  

[QuickHitRecord]

I was recently on a similar quest and I ended up buying a pair of Alzo 3200s (200w daylight-balanced, open-faced LEDs). They are not the highest CRI lights out there, and there's a definite green spike (this was shot at night):

I've lessened it with 1/8 minus green gel:

I opted for these over the 3300s because they don't require a ballast. There is some fan noise, but in the one thing I have shot with them so far, it hasn't been a problem.

[richg101]

Cheers for the info Nick.  It's irritating there isn;t something slap bang between these Alzo's and the Westcott in terms of pricing and CRI. Also the Alzo's seem less accessible in the UK:(  

[Cinegain]

About the 'etc'... not sure if it will fit your needs, but maybe it would be worth looking into the Pixapro Nitsan was raving about?

Still need a proper light kit myself. I kinda make do with three small Aputure LED panels at the moment (AL-H160, AL-198 & AL-198C).

[Geoff CB]

Check out the Fiilex Kits as well. Great CRI and reasonable pricing.

[Oliver Daniel]

Hi Rich, check out the Scorpion Lights by Blind Spot Gear. 

You get 4 lights in a kit with high CRI, they are very flexible and can be battery powered with Sony NP batteries. The set also comes with a case, gels and some accessories for £895 + VAT. 

I contacted them as the website says out of stock, they said 10 days waiting list. 

http://www.blindspotgear.com/

[tupp]

You would probably be better off going with a typical tungsten kit, unless there is a special reason that you want to use batteries.

 

Tungsten fixtures are not as efficient as LEDs nor ballasted sources, but tungsten has a much lower "piastre-to-footcandle" ratio, and the color spectrum of tungsten is as pure as you will ever need.  In addition, tungsten lights are generally easier to control (focusing, dimming, cutting, etc.) than LEDs and Fluorescents.

 

On the whole, tungstens have more "punch" than LEDs.  Just look at the photometric data charts of some of the LEDs and compare them to those of the tungsten fixtures.   Be mindful to compare the readings from same distance and with the same beam angle.

 

By the way, some manufacturers mislead regarding their beam angles.  The standard way to get a beam angle is to delineate it at the point at which the brightness drops one stop (50%) from the maximum level (usually at the center of the beam).  If the manufacturer doesn't specify how the beam is delineated, there's no telling what the "actual" beam angle is, unless you can test the unit yourself.

 

If you aren't too particular about the double shadow from cuts into the side of the beam, you will probably be happier with open-faced focusing lights, instead of Fresnels/refractive-focus units.  Open-faced fixtures are usually lighter, more compact, more rugged and less expensive than their lensed counterparts.  Open faced sources usually have more output, as well.

[sam]

Tupp gives excellent advice.  Also, a high CRI for led doesn't always equate for a cameras sensor.   TLCI is a more accurate measure (supposedly) recommended by the EBU.  Here is a link to tests of a multitude of lights (Arri, Kino, Litepanels, Dedo, Fiilex, and many, many others) https://tech.ebu.ch/tlci-2012. (test is 2012-current I believe) It shows which lights would need  zero, some, and a lot of post color correction.

 What tupp mentions about beam angle is also spot on (pun intended).   A light manufacturer stating that a source is  "equal to +++ watt tungsten" is completely worthless without the specs he mentions

Here is  a great write up I read a while ago   http://wolfcrow.com/blog/a-comparison-of-9-led-fresnel-lights/ that may help with the 100w plus led fresnel decision.

That said, for my intended purposes (portability for small projects), I  went the broadcast battery powered led route.  Purchased 2 of the Fiilex p360, (claims 360 tungsten equiv, but a bit less in my experience )  also (2) 1x1 92 cri daylight panels (claims 1k tungsten equivalent, maybe 650w tungsten equiv.  before diffusion ) (3) 500 led panels,  (3) 200 led panels,  and Westcott  Icelight .   I'm still deciding on which higher output sources to choose, so also interested to hear some advice from those who have used 100w+ led sources.

 

[leannemhg]

check out Minghe 100W, 200W, 300W, 320W led Fresnel light, the outlook is similar with arri, but not adopt tungsten.with CRI:>90

[TheRenaissanceMan]

On 2/18/2015 at 7:23 PM, tupp said:

 

If you aren't too particular about the double shadow from cuts into the side of the beam, you will probably be happier with open-faced focusing lights, instead of Fresnels/refractive-focus units.  Open-faced fixtures are usually lighter, more compact, more rugged and less expensive than their lensed counterparts.  Open faced sources usually have more output, as well.

And have hot spots, uneven spread, and a generally harsh quality of light.

Most lights used on film sets are fresnels, and they're the more versatile starting point for someone building a kit. Sure, get one or two open faces, but they're blunt force lighting instruments: good for smacking a bounce or filling diffusion. I would almost never shine one straight on a human face.

If that's what you're looking for, pars are the more versatile option anyway imo. A source four is only a fraction bigger and gives you way more options. Plus, they look pretty good as direct light, particularly as edges or if you're trying to sculpt a space with hard beams.

Lekos are also incredibly useful. Yes, they're larger than open faces, but the clean cuts, long throws, and even fields make bounces or filling diffusion incredibly fast and easy, as well as (in many cases) eliminating the need for extra flags and c-stands. Along with source four pars, you'd also be hard pressed to find more efficient fixtures. 

I think there's validity to the op's request. Full ctb kills 3/4 of your output, and being able to dim your source without juggling gels to even out your color temp can be pretty handy. That said, I haven't found anything as flexible as the tungsten options on the market in terms of variety, control, punch, and color temp.

Astras are great for what I'd use an open face for: bouncing or diffusing. They're also not terrible for edges or pools, although cutting them can be a real bitch. Their bare output isn't the most flattering--I like some Hollywood Frost in front at a minimum--but in certain situations it can be quite characteristic and appealing. 

If you don't need hard sources but want something strong and dimmable with daylight balance, LED tubes from Quasar Science or Source Maker are excellent options. Both very bright with fantastic cri and switchable color temp. 

[jonpais]

On 2/18/2015 at 0:50 PM, richg101 said:

I'm hoping to invest in some lighting and think now might be a good time to look at LEDs.  I'm particularly interested in a 350w fresnel from Ianiro

http://www.ianirouk.com/product.php?ProductID=763

 

as well as a pair of matching 100w fresnels 

http://www.ianirouk.com/product.php?ProductID=772 

 

Has anyone here used such lighting or have any feedback on how they would compare to Arri tungstens or hmis  

 

I don;t want to have to deal with the issue of generators or taking special feeds from a ring main.  I just want to run lights off either an dc-ac inverter and some leisure batteries or from normal 13a sockets as found in the home.

I'm seeing a 95% CRI rating, and quoted tungsten/hmi equivalents, but in real life are they a worthwhile investment over say a set of 3 redheads which work out at about 1/4 the price for good condition used 800w jobs.  

Your links don't work anymore.  

[tupp]

15 hours ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Open faced sources usually have more output, as well.

15 hours ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

And have hot spots, uneven spread, and a generally harsh quality of light.  Most lights used on film sets are fresnels,

That explains why we use Fresnels to illuminate smooth cycs and green screens instead of open-face cyclights and open-face flood washes specifically made for that purpose.  /s

 

What?!  Open-face sources have "hot spots" and "uneven spread?" ... compared to Fresnels?!  Please explain.

 

Too busy right now to respond to the rest of your post.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

2 hours ago, tupp said:

That explains why we use Fresnels to illuminate smooth cycs and green screens instead of open-face cyclights and open-face flood washes specifically made for that purpose.  /s

 

What?!  Open-face sources have "hot spots" and "uneven spread?" ... compared to Fresnels?!  Please explain.

 

Too busy right now to respond to the rest of your post.

It depends on the fixture of course--purpose-made open faces can certainly provide an even wash-- but your standard redhead/blonde isn't exactly providing a smooth clean beam. And fresnels aren't as even as a leko, but the way they taper off at the edges is very pretty and works great for lighting talent if you want a hard source (particularly at full spot).

If you have work where you've shone a redhead/blonde/Arrilite/Mickey Mole directly on talent's face and gotten good results, I'd love to see it. 

[tupp]

On 7/27/2017 at 1:48 PM, TheRenaissanceMan said:

It depends on the fixture of course--purpose-made open faces can certainly provide an even wash-- but your standard redhead/blonde isn't exactly providing a smooth clean beam.

Redheads and blondes generally provide a very wide, smooth beam, more so than many Fresnels and other fixtures with refractive optics.

 

 

On 7/27/2017 at 1:48 PM, TheRenaissanceMan said:

And fresnels aren't as even as a leko, but the way they taper off at the edges is very pretty and works great for lighting talent if you want a hard source (particularly at full spot).

Lekos (ellipsoidals) aren't necessarily smoother than Fresnels  nor open-face lights.  Lekos are certainly limited in their application, as their beam is relatively narrow with a hard cut at the edge, and as they are significantly less efficient than Fresnels and open-face lights (especially open-face lights) with comparable wattage.

 

On "full spot" open-face lights are give almost exactly the same results as those of Fresnels, but the open-face fixtures generally have more spill outside of the spot with a more gradual pattern fall-off.

 

 

On 7/27/2017 at 1:48 PM, TheRenaissanceMan said:

If you have work where you've shone a redhead/blonde/Arrilite/Mickey Mole directly on talent's face and gotten good results, I'd love to see it. 

Below are three images shot with direct light from either a Fresnel fixture or an open-face fixture of comparable size.  I shot at least one of these pictures.

 

Can you tell me which ones were lit with a Fresnel source and which ones were lit with an open-face source?

 

[jonpais]

This would be filed under 'etc.', but Rotolight is currently selling its Neo for as little as $150.00 USD.

[tupp]

@TheRenaissanceMan:

 

Judging from the photos above, do you still think that open-face sources "have hot spots, uneven spread, and a generally harsh quality of light?"