enny Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Hi Guy i have posted same question before why not just buy used red one or Red One Mysterium . Ok here is my argument i have abut 4 to 5k maybe 6k to spend on new camera i been looking on ebay and found Red One Mysterium-X for 6500k or best offer and it comes pretty much ready to shoot. I know it can be big and heavy but but what you get is one amazing camera. My other option was canon mk3 or black magic 4k but all those will run me here in Canada abut 4000 with tax give or take few dollars and then of course extra crap battery storage media cards after everything it would be 4500 to 5 k this cam can shoot 4.5k all the way down to HD with 13+ stops DYNAMIC RANGE AUDIO 4 channel, uncompressed, 24 bit, 48KHz. and SENSOR 14 MEGAPIXEL MYSTERIUM just to name few options if i get a camera like this i mean it wont get old and its not plagued with problems like Black magic and their delays on upgrades and fixing problems or is a hack like Magic Lantern. And just to make some money i can rent it out for like 500 a dayPS camera can be bulky with all the extra staff but going bare bone i think its really manageable for the images that you get in the endWhat your thought guys i am seriously ready to push a buy button in month or 2Here is the link to the red onehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Red-One-Mysterium-X-digital-cinema-camera-/181672085291?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2a4c80072b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Policar Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 What is your business model?Ergonomic nightmares (I mean horrible) and 90 seconds to boot. Shoot battery life. Bug prone. Lots of crashes... but toward the end of their life-cycle, these evolved into really solid workhorse cameras. Unusable before the MX chip without some serious work, but respectable with the upgrade and new firmware/software and an ok image even by today standard's with the new color matrices Red's released.Red's dynamic range measurements are BS. 11-12 stops at best, same as C300, just a bit better than MK3 and BM4K, worse than 2.5k BMCC. Noisy under tungsten light with some iffy color rendering, but if you can light appropriately or use an 80A filter, the results are quite nice. Really only the Alexa gets tungsten quite right. Not my favorite camera, but for the price... it will last a while. Skew is same as F3/C300... internal audio is useless, but so it is with any decent camera. Of course you're using dual system sound at this price range (or at least feeding from a mixer).For doc, corporate, wedding, tv, etc. cut your losses and get a C300. Still the best thing going and a better image than the Red MX under less-than-ideal light. But a lot of good stuff was shot on this cam and at $6500 you're looking at a workhorse. Just not recommended for projects requiring a lot of data or low light. The transcode is brutal and the low light is bad. For the David Finchers out there who want to get every little bit out of their image... it's a fun ride. If you're shooting ads it is cool. For the documentarians... run... far... away... just to much data and bad under low light.If you can rent it out for $500/day YES GET IT. And then rent it for ten days. Easy!The company seems to offer great support and push the other guys along toward innovation. Dragon is an achievement. For the money, if you can support the workflow and don't need great low light or tungsten performance, you could do worse. A lot worse.But horses for courses... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I imagine you could get a used FS700/O7Q for about the same price. To me, a far superior camera... Better DR, better low light, Pro Res option, s35 240p (RED is windowed and incredibly noisy)You are also close to FS7 territory. Also, I have seen a few scarlet packages inching towards your price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.f.r. Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I imagine you could get a used FS700/O7Q for about the same price. To me, a far superior camera... Better DR, better low light, Pro Res option, s35 240p (RED is windowed and incredibly noisy)You are also close to FS7 territory. Also, I have seen a few scarlet packages inching towards your price.I strongly agree with a Sony FS700 as well, excellent camera and when combined with the 7Q you have a beast that can record RAW + excellent slow-motion. On the cheaper side I would also look a the new Canon C100 Mark II, great documentary camera + all around tool. Red One MX has a lovely image,, but I wouldn't buy into that older system as of today. That camera shines when working with a full production crew and people who understand how to light. Now Red Epic which is a newer RED Cam (in my avatar) is simply an amazing tool, but that's definitely out of the price range ($20K+) *Dont be so sure you can rent out this camera, rental business is another animal within itself..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Daniel Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Don't be fooled by the RED model. Sure they are amazing cameras that have shot Hollywood films but those films also had a huge crew. The shoots I've done on RED have been very slow (as I didn't have enough crew) and technicalities then came before creativity. Also if you want more accessories it costs a fortune. It's a hardcore system. I would only buy RED if I had the money to fund more crew members, and I had consistent decent budgets to play with. You also have to consider post-production. The raw workflow is one of the best. But it takes a lot of work and time. Time is money. Personally I think a much better option would be the Sony FS7. It's the best "all-rounder" camera available. It's the same sensor as the F5. It has high FPS. Wide DR. Slog3. 10 bit. E-mount. Lovely ergonomics. Great price. Good low light. You can film anything with it brilliantly, pretty much out the box! (You need a mic, cards and batteries). Also you can upgrade it to shoot in raw and higher FPS. mtheory and IronFilm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I've used the Red1. I don't want to use it anymore. mtheory and IronFilm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enny Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Thanks guys for reply much appreciated i was reading Philip bloom post on red camera and hidden costs I believe i will go with black magic 4k and with rest of money upgrade my mac 2009. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inazuma Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Ignore jase 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Punk Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Red (as all modern cinema cameras) are literally computers...pretty obsolete after a few short years and eventually phased out of service by changing OS or no firmware support (Assuming no electronic components die before then).you can now buy a used Arri D-21 for cheaper than a used Red One. The D-21 is the Alexa's father and had a true optical viewfinder (this was pure magic at the time). But now there is hardly any interest in that camera at all.People bang on about film being dead, when in reality digital has a much shorter lifespan in Product iterations.a 100 year old film camera can be made to work like it was new, a 10 year old digital camera is probably going to go 'pop' the next time it is plugged into the mains. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWill Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 a 100 year old film camera can be made to work like it was new, a 10 year old digital camera is probably going to go 'pop' the next time it is plugged into the mains.I strongly disagree. The effort required to keep a 100 year old camera working "as new" if applied to a 10 year old digital camera, and instead of mechanical, metalworking skills you have electronic engineering skills, will keep it running perfectly. I took my son out today to play with my 12 year old dsc f828, it was working as well as the day I first bought it, with a replacement battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Punk Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Ok - my analogy was a bit of a stretch. I guess I was trying to say that the increasing relience of firmware and sophisticated electronics in modern cameras is an Achilles heel compared to the mechanical reliability of traditional film cameras.modern electronics seem less like they were built to last - not even built to standards they were 10 years ago.I too have a 10 year old Sony cybershot camera and the first 1TB LaCie hard drive...both have outlived equivalent products half their age. My first Arri camera for example was an original 1940 release that throughout the years was only modernised in its lens mount and motor. That camera has worked for almost 70 years so far (with very minimal mechanical matinance needed) and is still going strong...I just don't think we will be saying that of any of today's digital cameras in 2085. odie and Nick Hughes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odie Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I bought this moviecam 35mm camera which I think was made in the 90's ..runs like a rolex ..and it was payed for in two days.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtheory Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Why don't you buy the KineMINI as a barebone 2K starter version for around $3K-$4K, you will be able to upgrade it to 4K and slow-mo in the future. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.f.r. Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Thanks guys for reply much appreciated i was reading Philip bloom post on red camera and hidden costs I believe i will go with black magic 4k and with rest of money upgrade my mac 2009. Thanks again Blackmagic 4k Camera while great still requires another camera for any kind of slow-motion, that is another system I would definitely not invest money into either. The only Blackmagic camera I would own is a Pocket, due to excellent dynamic range and cheap cost, but even still you would need another camera. Sony Fs700 , Fs7 or Canon C100 Mark II would be my recommendation, in that order. Many productions I've been on from commercial shoots to corporate specially want that "Canon" look at the cinema line has been great for that. These Sony cameras are all in one beasts and definitely used in a professional environment and much much better tool than any Blackmagic camera or slr. I personal own a Sony A7s which I love, but that is more used for my personal projects and very low budget ones. Productions I work on use everything from RED, SONY to ALEXA. Also to comment on Oliver Daniels post working with RED is no different than my Sony A7s in Post. Premiere, Final Cut, etc can handle the native Raw files and you cut,grade just like any other system..... Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Bourke-Velji Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I have shot on the Red One MX on 2 different shoots with 2 different camera's one of them dropped loads of frames, corrupted footage and drives so had to switch to the cards from the redmags which in turn ment more dropped frams, overheated a lot and was just a general pain in the ass the second time didnt have as many issues until the motherboard decided to die. So whatever you do dont buy a Red One MX.... I have a hatred for Red since these shots but I have had to shoot on a Epic and a Epic Dragon and they have been a pleasure to work with apart from the form factor and battery life, but i still give them evils and if i have a choice wont touch them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enny Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Thanks guys for all the info what looking for is shoot my own projects in raw so i can grade and learn the art of color grading and film making i have Flanders Scientific CM171 on its way to use as reference monitor it can also display 2k. So i am looking for camera that can shoot raw so my options are between black magic cinema 4k or canon mk3 with ml. So in 4000 to 5000 what are my options. I know Sony Fs700 is 5000 just for body and Canon C100 Mark II cant shoot raw Thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtheory Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Look, man, if your primary need is educational and if you want to spend most of your time actually doing post with 2K DNGs instead of building rigs with many components, you should go for 5D3 with ML with a nice big Lexar 1066x CF card, once you set it up to stable settings its the easiest camera to pick up and shoot without worrying about batteries or monitors, etc. I recommend you spend $2K on 5D3 and spend the rest on good Zeiss CP or Canon L lenses, they will last you forever as you keep upgrading to new cameras.If you're buying 5D3 brand new, make sure to check the firmware that is compatible with ML before you buy, some of the latest supplies have a new firmware that doesn't allow downgrading. Cosimo murgolo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Nah, get the BMPCC, together with the Rokinon Cine DS 16mm / 24mm / 50mm lenses (in Nikon F mount) plus an RJ Lens Turbo.Simple, cheap, but great set up. Gets you learning with raw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enny Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 Slow motion is not big deal for me Blackmagic 4k Camera while great still requires another camera for any kind of slow-motion, that is another system I would definitely not invest money into either. The only Blackmagic camera I would own is a Pocket, due to excellent dynamic range and cheap cost, but even still you would need another camera. Sony Fs700 , Fs7 or Canon C100 Mark II would be my recommendation, in that order. Many productions I've been on from commercial shoots to corporate specially want that "Canon" look at the cinema line has been great for that. These Sony cameras are all in one beasts and definitely used in a professional environment and much much better tool than any Blackmagic camera or slr. I personal own a Sony A7s which I love, but that is more used for my personal projects and very low budget ones. Productions I work on use everything from RED, SONY to ALEXA. Also to comment on Oliver Daniels post working with RED is no different than my Sony A7s in Post. Premiere, Final Cut, etc can handle the native Raw files and you cut,grade just like any other system..... Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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