Feature film Focus edited on FCPX

[cjwilliams0013]

I saw this page on Apple's website, it was exciting to see FCPX used in a major feature film. I know that FCPX is my go to editor, it will be interesting to see if more major projects migrate to FCPX, but I think that will end up being a personal decision like this film was based on the article. 

https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro/in-action/focus/

[j.f.r.]

I saw this page on Apple's website, it was exciting to see FCPX used in a major feature film. I know that FCPX is my go to editor, it will be interesting to see if more major projects migrate to FCPX, but I think that will end up being a personal decision like this film was based on the article. 

https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro/in-action/focus/

​

No surprise there, FCPX is an excellent editing program, especially after all of the latest updates and native support for many cameras. One thing you need to understand though is all modern editing programs basically do the same thing, no real difference at all between X or Premiere, just slightly different how they work/operate

[Policar]

​

No surprise there, FCPX is an excellent editing program, especially after all of the latest updates and native support for many cameras. One thing you need to understand though is all modern editing programs basically do the same thing, no real difference at all between X or Premiere, just slightly different how they work/operate

​While that's essentially true for a single editor, when you have a team working on something you need a file structure that's suited for a team, and Avid's bins are more reliable for multiple editors than anything FCP or Premiere has. Avid is also faster in trained hands.

The overwhelming majority of major features are cut in Avid not because it results in better edits, but because the workflow is best-suited for teams of editors. FCP7 made some headway into commercials and indie features. FCPX has not....

Warner Bros. was rumored to have a few features being cut in FCPX, of which this is one. The "migrating from iMovie" angle is a valid one, however most film schools have switched from FCP7 (or iMovie) to Avid, anyway, so most editors will be migrating from Avid to Avid...

Gone Girl was cut in Premiere Pro, but I find Premiere Pro buggy. It has bad support for multiple editors (merging projects is a nightmare) and sloppy round trips with Resolve and Pro Tools. I can't really agree with you that all NLEs are the same unless you have a massive team to support the bugs and quirks in Premiere, which I don't... Fincher did. What round trip do you use when shooting dual system that delivers a clean OMF to Pro Tools and the native media into Resolve? We couldn't do this without resorting to XML. Lots of gamma issues too when cutting between XAVC and ProRes, same as After Effects.

I know a lot of smaller post houses, indies, and preditors are switching to Premiere and finding that it comes up short relative to FCP7, but are hesitant to switch to FCPX due to its interface being unusual. Having not used FCPX, I don't know what the right choice is. Probably Avid.

[Geoff CB]

I like how they also list the third party products used in post. That's pretty classy of them, if it were Adobe: "EDITED COMPLETELY IN PREMIERE!"

[Axel]

​While that's essentially true for a single editor, when you have a team working on something you need a file structure that's suited for a team, and Avid's bins are more reliable for multiple editors than anything FCP or Premiere has. Avid is also faster in trained hands.

​Very hard to believe. It's just a statement.

To fully exploit the possibilities of FCP X, you of course need to follow a 'proprietary' workflow. It works best with digital data from the start, which (though Kodak continues to deliver film, for now) clearly is the future.

That means you have to use FCP X as DIT assistant, for which it is 100% perfect. You hot-swap Thunderbolt drives, and everybody in the team has instant access to all the media:

All contributors log in and must be 'trained hands' in setting the appropriate tags, giving the editor(s) all information he/she/they can dream of. The program fits into the OS seamlessly, insofar as tags and folders (though who needs folders?) are linked in smart collections that proved to work flawlessly. It's very close to mind reading. You look for the needle in the haystack? Yoink!, you've got it.

It's hard if not impossible to find an argument against improved teamwork and more responsibility (always instantly controllable by everyone) for all, which is seen as the premise for a successful modern work plan. Trained hands?

And we only talked about media organization here. What about editing? I can't tell you if there is an advantage of AVID over FCP X in this respect, but I doubt it very much.

 

 

[j.f.r.]

​While that's essentially true for a single editor, when you have a team working on something you need a file structure that's suited for a team, and Avid's bins are more reliable for multiple editors than anything FCP or Premiere has. Avid is also faster in trained hands.

Having not used FCPX, I don't know what the right choice is. Probably Avid.

Oh the irony......... Better to be quite than open your mouth and show people how smart you are........ I suggest you do some research and see what is possible as of today with FCPX or any other program outside of Avid......

 

 

[Policar]

I'd give it a go, but none of my clients work on it.

[Policar]

How good is SAN support on FCPX and what about multiple editors working across multiple machines?

I'm certainly up for trying it. I need to give FCP7 a rest eventually.

Avid is the fastest for logging/capturing/cutting/etc. and will retain its spot at the high end pretty much no matter what (because it's built for efficiency over ease of use, and because it's what everyone knows), but given how bad my experience with Premier has been (and how long in tooth FCP7 is) and how much I prefer FCP7 to Avid (I've never filled adapted to its interface and like the sloppy media management of FCP7 for personal projects) I'd consider giving FCPX a try, especially if the multiple editor support and SAN support are there.

[enny]

Premiere is being use in big films gone girl was edited in adobe but as Walter murch said give me moviola (see image )and i will give you art

[Axel]

Premiere is being use in big films gone girl was edited in adobe but as Walter murch said give me moviola (see image )and i will give you art

​In his book In The Blink Of An Eye he describes how he thinks of editing film as a physical thing, like dancing. That's why he prefers to stand and move during the process rather than sit (postural deformity, peripheral circulatory disturbances, repetitive strain injury - 'mouse arm'). Apart from the bad health of most seasoned digital editors, they feel less.

This applies to AVID, APP and FCP X in the same way, of course.

The main difference between all track-based NLEs and FCP X is that you need to think differently. One has to accept that the main storyline ("e") is like a film strip that must contain the narration as a linear sequence with no gaps. That everything else ("q") is just added to that and has no right of it's own. That's it.

[Policar]

Are you kidding, Murch was one of the first prominent editors to switch from film to digital... in fact to Final Cut Pro in the early days. I discussed this when him when we met ten years ago... he bemoaned that NLEs didn't force you to look through every moment as you skipped to the right portion, but recognized the net gain and didn't turn back. That might be the dumbest comment I've read on here... wow. Like a parody of what an uninformed person would say.

Fair enough regarding FCP having a different but not necessarily inferior interface, though. I'm an After Effects fan, having used it for 15+ years, but when I see friends use Nuke I appreciate that they can move faster than I can, even if the interface doesn't make any sense to me. I'm curious to try FCPX now, if it's really as fast as Avid and as robust for multiple editors. From what I've seen of friends using it, the interface makes less sense for my workflow, but... I've also heard it's easy to use and fast, and I need to adapt eventually to a new primary NLE.

But... how is the SAN support? Support for multiple editors working on multiple machines? Presumably it at least is better in this respect than Premiere.

How is the support for dual system sound? With Premiere to Resolve and Pro Tools we had to flatten our timeline into one clop and use an XML and work pretty extensively to organize all our audio tracks for a good OMF and had some problems with the house that mixed it. How is the Resolve/Pro Tools round trip in FCPX for features shot with dual system?

What pratfalls have you encountered with the NLE relative to Avid? 

[Axel]

Are you kidding, Murch was one of the first prominent editors to switch from film to digital... in fact to Final Cut Pro in the early days. I discussed this when him when we met ten years ago... he bemoaned that NLEs didn't force you to look through every moment as you skipped to the right portion, but recognized the net gain and didn't turn back. That might be the dumbest comment I've read on here... wow. Like a parody of what an uninformed person would say.

​We can't of course know what Murch told you in private, but unless everything he wrote about his experiences with NLEs was actually written by an uninformed ghostwriter, the quotes above were correct. And you contradict yourself a bit, since you also mentioned the 'missed frames' issue that happens when quickly scrubbing or skimming over clips.

How is the support for dual system sound? With Premiere to Resolve and Pro Tools we had to flatten our timeline into one clop and use an XML and work pretty extensively to organize all our audio tracks for a good OMF and had some problems with the house that mixed it. How is the Resolve/Pro Tools round trip in FCPX for features shot with dual system?

What pratfalls have you encountered with the NLE relative to Avid? 

​Nothing. I am an amateur. I roundtrip with Resolve Lite, and compared to Premiere (a friend of mine uses that) it seems to work better. Can't tell about AVID. As you can see, the production for Focus used Logic Pro X, that's what I meant with 'proprietary workflow'. Since there are no tracks in FCP X, you have to assign so-called 'roles' to your audio, which is one of the tagging-tools in the project itself. Those you can export either 'as' tracks with individual clips (and then of course gaps) - afaik there is a special software that translates this for ProTools - or as full-length stems. I can't tell how Logic deals with the audio, since I never tried it. Best google for it. Of the said Focus workflow, there is also an older clip where the assistant editor talks about their experiences:

 

[Policar]

I'm not contradicting myself... the switch from film to NLEs was a complex one, with plusses and minuses. Not sure what you mean. Obviously Murch prefers NLEs since, he well, uses them exclusively now. The quotes are in reference to a standing desk rather than a sitting one, fwiw, not a moviola vs an NLE. Well, your quote. I don't recognize the one above it.

Fair enough on the rest. I'll give FCPX another look.