NX1 and Color Grading

[Ed_David]

g

[Julian]

This kinda reminds me of this:

[odie]

"FREEDOM OF SPEECH"...don't let them censor you

[Ed_David]

"FREEDOM OF SPEECH"...don't let them censor you

​I just hope Andrew here doesn't censor me or I'll have to complain about it on No Film School .  And then if they censor me there, I'll have to go to Roger Deakin's forum.    

 

Freedom to speak about cameras and gear is important for all of us to grow.

[fuzzynormal]

Where can I sign up for the free-flowing world of online camera nerdery?

[Ed_David]

And then they just deleted my 2nd post - here's a private message sent to me about it.  Man, it just gets better and better.  Remember kids, freedom of information is an important part of civil discussion in any society.  As we move more and more towards the virtual - we need to be concerned when communities start censoring themselves when nothing controversial is sad, but a difference of opinion.  

This is called censorship.  It exists - legally, in privately-owned areas.  So make sure to keep the net neutral and also please Andrew do not censor unless it's racist, mysogonistic, abusive, etc.   The fine line.

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

We are not paid. Never have been. Ever. I myself have zero involvement in REDuser or BMCuser.
 

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid

 

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

Ed, I deleted your second post -- Jason did not do it. 

Jarred owning both this site and REDUSER had nothing to do with it. He has owned both for the entire time they existed, and before he was even involved in RED. Also, he has very little to do with what goes on around here, being too busy with RED. He doesn't tell us to do or not do anything. We don't even hear from him much anymore.

The entire issue was ranting about another site HERE, which we have always frowned upon. Bashing other sites doesn't serve ANY filmmaking purpose and has nothing to do with why this forum exists. We consider it "pissing in the pool," and that has been against the rules for a long, long time. It's nothing new.

So, all we're doing is running the place as it's been run for almost the entire time it has existed. 

If you truly feel that this place is no longer for you, then so be it. But we're not saying you need to go.

Let me get this straight, the President of Red owns Landmine media which owns dvxuser and reduser and bmcuser.com - but he doesn't talk to you guys much but he does pay you guys right? Are you paid to do what you do? Or do you do it for just the love of running three websites? How does that work? Is that a conflict of interest?

Why do you do it then? What do you get out of it? How many hours of work is it a week? How many posts have you deleted before? What were the reasons? Have you ever deleted an account?

[SleepyWill]

Well, that is most definitely their loss. I find you, your words and your work an inspiration as I'm sure, do many other people and your name next to a post is a sure mark of quality.

[Ed_David]

Is 27000 posts not that much to do since 2003?  That's how many posts a day?  Not counting for holidays and weekends? 

 

David Jimerson 

Moderator 

Join Date

Oct 2003

Location

Wilmington, NC

Posts

27,008

 

 Today 07:25 PM  

 

I don't have a clue what goes on at REDuser, and I don't have much interest, either. I lost interest in RED cameras quite a while ago. I also don't have anywhere near 40,000 posts.

 

I participate here because I like to help where I can, and I like to learn what I can.

 

 

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid

 

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

We are not paid. Never have been. Ever. I myself have zero involvement in REDuser or BMCuser.
 

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid

 

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

Ed, I deleted your second post -- Jason did not do it. 

Jarred owning both this site and REDUSER had nothing to do with it. He has owned both for the entire time they existed, and before he was even involved in RED. Also, he has very little to do with what goes on around here, being too busy with RED. He doesn't tell us to do or not do anything. We don't even hear from him much anymore.

The entire issue was ranting about another site HERE, which we have always frowned upon. Bashing other sites doesn't serve ANY filmmaking purpose and has nothing to do with why this forum exists. We consider it "pissing in the pool," and that has been against the rules for a long, long time. It's nothing new.

So, all we're doing is running the place as it's been run for almost the entire time it has existed. 

If you truly feel that this place is no longer for you, then so be it. But we're not saying you need to go.

Let me get this straight, the President of Red owns Landmine media which owns dvxuser and reduser and bmcuser.com - but he doesn't talk to you guys much but he does pay you guys right? Are you paid to do what you do? Or do you do it for just the love of running three websites? How does that work? Is that a conflict of interest?

I'll answer the question for you - you get to promote your books on the websites - so you make some money off of it. Probably not as much as before, but you make something from it. So you have a capital interest in the websites. Also you have over 40,000 posts it seems like - that's many hours of work per week. Maybe you mostly do it out of passion, but it still feels weird that a person of passion who is a writer would decide to censor other people's words even if they are not in any violation of civil rules and laws.

Nothing I said was controversial.

I am not expeceting an apology, just an understanding that you are aware of the great power you have as our society moves more and more digital and more from the domain of public to private for civil discourse and information exchange.

I am upset that you deleted my post, but I'm not that upset. I'll forget about it down the road.

I'm more saddened that you and Jason and whomever censored me at Reduser are all getting extremely publicly embarrassed right now in front of your filmmaker peers. It's sad because DVXuser really was an important part of my education as a cinematographer.

To bit the hand that fed me now that I grew up, now that I am a grown up snake, that's sad. But so be it. Freedom of information is an extremely important issue to me. 

Sorry David and all!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ed_David]

Tell me more about Andrew Reid's history.
And in the meantime I'll tell you about Jim Jinnard the CEO of Red Camera's history on Reduser.net - he publically called out Geoff Boyle and Art Adams in his farewell address. It got in the Hollywood reporter. He was abusive. He deleted posts and banned people.
That's your parent company, David.

What are your opinions on that?

 

 

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

If EOSHD is what you consider a comfortable home, then have at it. It does seem to be the place where people who get pissed about how DVXuser is run seem to congregate, so you'll be preaching to the choir. (Andrew Reid's history with DVXuser is a colorful one, indeed.)
 

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid

 

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

Ed, I can't even tell you how many people have been upset at moderation and have threatened to incur the wrath of the "community" upon us. 

No one cares.

No one cares. No one cares about anything or anyone. Except I care. And I also care deeply about the freedom of information. 

Go on EOSHD.com - it seems that actually people do care on this one.




 

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid

 

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

Ed, we have rules in place which have been in place for a very, very long time. Bashing other sites has never been allowed here. It serves no purpose, and it's not good form. Note the tag which has been on the Cafe for pretty much the entire time it has existed: "The place for off-topic discussions. Please keep it civil, upbeat and friendly."

As a private forum, we are free to set the rules as we deem them necessary.

If these rules are not to your liking, then you are certainly free to refrain from participation here.

But keep in mind -- that is entirely your own choice. If you choose to leave, we are not stopping your participation; you are. 

Jarred founded DVXuser in 2003. He founded REDuser before he was involved in RED. It was initially a subsection of DVXuser.

None of this is secret. Never has been.
 

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid

 

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

I don't even know what that means, Ed. I'm trying to discuss this with you rationally, professionally, and politely.
 

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid

Smile David. You're on camera.

If you want to discuss this further, lets talk via my phone - 9170-449-0739 or ed.david@gmail.com.
We can talk all about the function of private vs public discussion and freedom of information on privately-owned forums.

That's a rational and polite way to discuss things vs deleting posts and ending threads.

I am also very curiuos about the history of Landmine Media and Jarred Land, president of Red's invovlement in the company and potential conflicts of interests that may entail.

So are a bunch of other people.

Interesting because what is your definition of "bashing" other sites that happened in my 2nd post? I made no mention of any site in particular. I talked about censorship - which is exactly what you just did.

Let me ask you - do you get paid for your job at landmine - and is Jarred Land still the owner? Do you see a potential conflict of interest? 

Do you see the responsibility you now have in your hands? Especially now that you know that you are being watched by hundreds of camera nerds on other websites?

[IronFilm]

Wait...  WHAT?? The president of RED also owns bmcuser???? :-o
OMG, I could see how if you're not careful that could be a huge huge conflict of interest.

I suppose it is kinda ok when the BMCC still fell very short of of a RED (no 4K or higher resolution, no higher than 30fps frame rates, just to mention a couple of aspect) but now with the URSA, you have to wonder if Blackmagic Design continues to push into the high end but at radically under cutting prices.... how will this impact bmcuser when they're owned by the president of RED??

Imagine if BMCC announces at NAB a Super 35mm camera which does 6K @ 240fps for $5k? Then a year later drops that price down to $3k? (I doubt either of these things will happen, but possibly.... when you look at what surprises they've pulled already with the BMCC and BMPC4K, and the price reductions they've had with the BMPCC and also the BMPC4K. Heck, the BMPC4K got its price reduction before it even shipped!).

This could put the admins of bmcuser in an awkward spot whenever they need to make judgement calls.

[Ed_David]

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson
I am no more a "paid employee" of this site than anyone else who runs ads on it. Lowel runs ads for lighting systems -- are they paid employees?

I will admit to a chuckle when I read that. 

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid
No actually it does. You are generating income from the site. Therefore you are a paid employee - you get paid in advertising. As a paid employee, you are consciously or subconsciously following a code. Because you have a vested interest in these forums.

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson
'Coz I don't wanna. Has nothing to do with anything.

 Originally Posted by eddavid

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

 Originally Posted by eddavid
And you like to sell books.
I was a mod here for years before I had anything to sell. My participation here isn't necessary to sell anything, anyway.
Then why don't you get rid of your banner ads?

I don't have thick skin. I did call you a liar. But that's not an insult, it's the truth. 
Lowel pays for their ads. Do you pay for your ads?

Jim Jinnard runs Red camera which Jared Land, CEO of Landmine Media which owns reduser dvxuser etc is the president of.
Don't you see the conflict of interest?

Anyway I am glad you chuckled. That takes the air out of it. For you thinking that I was threatening you. When I wasn't threatening you.

I am very, very, very curious to hear your take on Andrew Reid. He already told me his take. Please do tell.

_____
www.kittyguerrilla.com 
Ed David
Cinematographer.
NYC
Sony F35, Red One, F3, SRII
 

[j.f.r.]

Let it go dude.........

 

Speaking your mind on those sites will easily get you banned, been there before.........

 

All I can say is thanks to Andrew as he has a great site here

Peace

[j.f.r.]

double post

[Ed_David]

you are right, I'm done with their conflict of interest.  

The connection between the president of Red owning BMCuser.com and DVXUSER.com is not healthy for this industry.  I ask all of you to take those sites with a grain of salt.  

Anything bad they say about Andrew Reid can be said a million times against Jim Jinnard and his Reduser reign of terror.  And he's a billionare.  Andrew Reid is just like you and me - just a guy who is trying to improve his cinematography skills. 

I will not be bullied by a billionaire and his army of "Yes Men" and "Board of Bros."

I hope all of you guys can see this too.  It feels good to not be the only one disgusted by how they run their camera forums.

UPDATE - now I feel sorry for the mod who deleted my post.  He is moderating with 27,000 posts a website owned by the president of a multibillion dollar corporation and has to pay for his little ads for his books on sound etc - 

 

So you spend countless hours on this forum and have to pay for your ads? On a forum that is owned by the president of Red camera which is a multimillion dollar corporation owned by a multi-billionare?
Wow okay I'm sorry for calling you a liar. 
But now I feel sorry for you.

 

 

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

You did call me a liar. Which is an insult. It's also untrue. I haven't lied about a thing.

I do pay for my ads, not that it's any of your business. Have from the start.

Do you pay for the link to your own website in your own signature? (No.) Why is that link there? By your own reasoning, doesn't that make you a "paid employee" as well? If not, why not?

RED is not our parent company; Jim Jannard sets absolutely no rules about how we moderate DVXuser, and Jarred has no involvement here anymore. (He could if he wanted to, but he doesn't.) These are all facts. Your refusal to believe them don't make them any less factual.

I don't have anything to say about Andrew. Like I said, he can say whatever he likes.


 

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid

 

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

I am no more a "paid employee" of this site than anyone else who runs ads on it. Lowel runs ads for lighting systems -- are they paid employees?

I will admit to a chuckle when I read that. 

 

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid

No actually it does. You are generating income from the site. Therefore you are a paid employee - you get paid in advertising. As a paid employee, you are consciously or subconsciously following a code. Because you have a vested interest in these forums.
 

 

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

'Coz I don't wanna. Has nothing to do with anything.
 

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid

 

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid

And you like to sell books.

I was a mod here for years before I had anything to sell. My participation here isn't necessary to sell anything, anyway.

Then why don't you get rid of your banner ads?

I don't have thick skin. I did call you a liar. But that's not an insult, it's the truth. 
Lowel pays for their ads. Do you pay for your ads?

Jim Jinnard runs Red camera which Jared Land, CEO of Landmine Media which owns reduser dvxuser etc is the president of.
Don't you see the conflict of interest?

Anyway I am glad you chuckled. That takes the air out of it. For you thinking that I was threatening you. When I wasn't threatening you.

I am very, very, very curious to hear your take on Andrew Reid. He already told me his take. Please do tell.

 

[andrgl]

And then if they censor me there, I'll have to go to Roger Deakin's forum.  

​

Holy god damn f*cking shit. This man operates a forum and even replies on it?!?!?!?!111one

Thanks infinitely Ed. I had zero clue he had a forum.

[dbp]

^ He's actually really good about answering questions on lighting set ups and offering tips. His whole philosophy on lighting/cinematography is great. I liked him before but my like increased ten-fold after browsing his forum. 

[Ed_David]

This is it, this is the last one.  Also yes Roger Deakin's forum is amazing.  That and American Cinematographer are the two most useful resources for learning lighting and cinematography, besides EOSHD!!!

 

Finally you are asking me questions. Thank you.

Red is not your parent company, landmine media is. The president of that is Jarrod Land, the President of Red Cinema. His company not only doesn't pay you but charges you for advertising and runs a website about blackmagic cameras, Red's rival camera company.

Now to your questions:

1. yes I have a signature and I don't pay for it - but it's my personal website. It does not sell products. It has my work - 50% of which is nonprofit work and 20% of it is my movie reviews and opinions on art and films. 30% of it does show that I do commercial cinematography, but again I don't use it to elicit work. In fact I have never once gotten work from dvxuser.com - well actually back in the day in 2005 or so someone asked me to shoot a band for $200. But never once did I get an email saying "hey I saw your stuff on dvxuser, do you want to shoot a commercial?"

Therefore this does not make me a paid employee.

If you did not pay for your advertising, then I would say the trade off for you moderating with your 27,000 posts is that you get free advertising for your products that you can buy. I actually bought the sound book years ago and enjoyed it very much. It was a nice book. 

I sell no goods on my site.

But now I see you are paying for advertising - then that does change everything. That means you're not a liar, but you are getting taken advantage of for all your hard work keeping landmine, inc's operations moving. These are not non profit websites - they have advertising. 

But that's okay - if you are fine being used by a multibillion dollar corporation - that's okay.

What now I don't understand is why Jarrod Land, once he became President of Red Camera, did not relinquish his role with Landmine Media, Inc? Isn't that a conflict of interest for him? One would think so. 

Now after this private message I am prepared for you to ban me. 
You have already caused enough damage to not only Landmine Media, but to Red Cinema Cameras. Maybe next time they should pay people who are speaking on behalf of their company so that they can train them how better to talk to members of the press. 

 

 

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

You did call me a liar. Which is an insult. It's also untrue. I haven't lied about a thing.

I do pay for my ads, not that it's any of your business. Have from the start.

Do you pay for the link to your own website in your own signature? (No.) Why is that link there? By your own reasoning, doesn't that make you a "paid employee" as well? If not, why not?

RED is not our parent company; Jim Jannard sets absolutely no rules about how we moderate DVXuser, and Jarred has no involvement here anymore. (He could if he wanted to, but he doesn't.) These are all facts. Your refusal to believe them don't make them any less factual.

I don't have anything to say about Andrew. Like I said, he can say whatever he likes.


 

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid

 

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

I am no more a "paid employee" of this site than anyone else who runs ads on it. Lowel runs ads for lighting systems -- are they paid employees?

I will admit to a chuckle when I read that. 

 

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid

No actually it does. You are generating income from the site. Therefore you are a paid employee - you get paid in advertising. As a paid employee, you are consciously or subconsciously following a code. Because you have a vested interest in these forums.
 

 

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

'Coz I don't wanna. Has nothing to do with anything.
 

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid

 

 Originally Posted by David Jimerson

 

 Originally Posted by eddavid

And you like to sell books.

I was a mod here for years before I had anything to sell. My participation here isn't necessary to sell anything, anyway.

Then why don't you get rid of your banner ads?

I don't have thick skin. I did call you a liar. But that's not an insult, it's the truth. 
Lowel pays for their ads. Do you pay for your ads?

Jim Jinnard runs Red camera which Jared Land, CEO of Landmine Media which owns reduser dvxuser etc is the president of.
Don't you see the conflict of interest?

Anyway I am glad you chuckled. That takes the air out of it. For you thinking that I was threatening you. When I wasn't threatening you.

I am very, very, very curious to hear your take on Andrew Reid. He already told me his take. Please do tell.

[Ed_David]

.

[IronFilm]

http://www.redsharknews.com is owned by the makers of Lightworks, but I don't mind that. As they seem to be fair enough in covering their competitors, plus they cover way way more than just the little niche they're in of NLEs (reviewing cameras, other tech, and other filmmaking news, etc).

RED + BMC = way too close that overlap is! Can't say it can't be done though, they could pull off running both. But it is an extremely tricky tightrope to walk to manage the temptations, and it seems initially they're not quite managing this?

[Andrew Reid]

Shame for them to lose you Ed. You're a great contributor wherever you happen to be posting. I'm enjoying your blog too, it's thought provoking.

As for DVXUser i've seen both sides of the coin now. I didn't see eye to eye with them when I was a user. Now I'm a forum admin myself here, I can see what a challenge it is. It's a bit like running a kitchen at a restaurant but instead of the odd one-time customer or tourist turning up and hurling abuse through the kitchen door, the regulars feel they can do it too, whilst continuing to come back for soup the next day.

It's a tricky one. In the end, we must try to respect the censorship / editorial decision of the admins.