"Clarkson should have gone to rehab" say BBC as Top Gear inquiry begins

[Andrew Reid]

 

An EOSHD opinion

Humour and creative risk taking are being pulled under by a faceless crowd of sanctimonious trolls. A culture is taking over, heavily pre-disposed to a savage online shaming game. As filmmakers and creative artists we should be aware of what is happening and try to prevent it... because we could be next.

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[enny]

 So the Jeremy Clarkson witch hunt continues Don't like it? Don't watch it. Simple as that. Love Top Gear. Keep going

 

[Nikkor]

We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!

[Jimmy Goodwood]

Clarkson should screw BBC and look for some backers to start his own program, based on the Top Gear model, and syndicate it himself.

I'm sure he would easily find backers and would make a lot of money for himself and his investors.

[MattH]

I think a big underlying issue with all the clarkson hate is Jealousy.  People see him driving round in fast expensive cars, saying what he wants and getting paid millions for it and they can't handle it.

However If it turns out that he did resort to violence that wasn't in self defence then that is obviously not acceptable.  That is a seperate issue from all the things he says, which as far as I am concerned are jokes.  The problem with all these moral witch hunts is that that people are crying wolf.  They make it more likely that genuine cases of persecution will not get the attention they deserve.

 

 

 

[fuzzynormal]

I think the problem will take care of itself.  Broadcast outlets will segment.  Some will be like helicopter parents where everything is PC because of public service issues or just ideological attitude.  Maybe like Oprah's OWN network...or PBS...or the BBC.  While others will be more free because they just don't care about that nor need to.

More than anything I just view it as a changing of the guard in media.  BBC is trying to put the genie back in the bottle, but the bottle doesn't exist anymore.  They're still looking for it though.

Ultimately, these days this notoriety is power.  Awareness matters good or bad.  The things that make this uproar spread so easily can also be readily exploited.  And it often is.  I mean, good gosh, we have to deal with Kardashians don't we?  Good grief, as an example my iMac just auto corrected "Kardashian"  Jesus Christ.

Never mind any of what I just wrote, we're all screwed.

[johnnymossville]

I would like to see Clarkson do a show for someone like HBO or FX. 

[MattH]

I think the problem will take care of itself.  Broadcast outlets will segment.  Some will be like helicopter parents where everything is PC because of public service issues or just ideological attitude.  Maybe like Oprah's OWN network...or PBS...or the BBC.  While others will be more free because they just don't care about that nor need to.

​To a certain extent that is true.  Comedy on the bbc practically announced its retirement after the so called sachsgate so called scandal.   And other commercial channels may be more free.  But in TV there is still ofcom to deal with which exercises authority by its ability to legaly fine and even imprison people through the courts.  Ofcom ruled that the use of the word 'slope' in top gear broke broadcasting rules because it was 'offensive'.  Yes that's right, you aren't allowed to offend people any more.  I don't know how this applies to films like The Deer Hunter for example.  Maybe the fact that top gear purports to be factual makes a difference, or maybe they just won't show films or programs with 'offensive' language in them any more.

[Andrew Reid]

Some interesting viewing...

 

Russell is almost spot on -

 

And you could make a nice headline out of this one - "F1 is homosexual" - Clarkson

 

 

[MattH]

I like Russel Brand, and he is well meaning, but god does he talk a load of bollocks.   It's developing countries burning vast amounts of coal that produces pollution, not modern cars.

[Andrew Reid]

Hmm. Well it's both actually.

I'm all in favour of alternative fuels and cars, as long as they give you the buzz the old ones did and more.

[Jay Edgar]

Ok...It seems everyone here are fans of the JC Show. I'm not. But don't run me over in your [enter fast machine here]

I've worked in 40 countries in production and elsewhere, and some words from this JC love-in ring familiar...

"Just Banter" - A.R.

This term is frequently used by the same people who start heir sentences with "I'm not racist - but..."

Andrew...you can use the N word or any other word and I won't be offended if its in person. Free Speech, You're entitled to be unclear on what billions of people find offensive.

'Banter' however refers typically to off the cuff, private, (and often laughably offensive, but who cares) chatter between people who have their own rules.

Policing that Banter is BS. Totally agree.

However, surely you are old enough now to realise that a TV Shoe watched by hundreds of millions can NEVER count as...Banter. Jeez...

 

"The Real Polluters are Developing Countries Coal Mines, not Cars" - Matt Something

Poor Matt must never have been to a developing country. And likely has never had anyone over to his mobile home for dinner who was from one.

If he had he would know that Developing countries FDI comes from countries like the UK/US/DE etc They Burn. We Benefit my friend...Dont fool yourself...

 

Folks...TG is a dumb, yet popular show.

Let it burn.

There'll be another one soon....

[SleepyWill]

I support free speech, I even tolerate people saying Nigger.

Unless someone popular says something I don't like.

Passive aggressive belittling of MattH's knowledge, followed by an exaggeration of my worldly experience

I dislike top gear, so I don't care what happens to it

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

[MattH]

 

"The Real Polluters are Developing Countries Coal Mines, not Cars" - Matt Something

Poor Matt must never have been to a developing country. And likely has never had anyone over to his mobile home for dinner who was from one.

If he had he would know that Developing countries FDI comes from countries like the UK/US/DE etc They Burn. We Benefit my friend...Dont fool yourself...

 

I went to Egypt the year before last, because I know people from there and indeed I do have them over for dinner.  The cost of my house is irrelevant, but I will forgive your pomposity.  Cairo is polluted as fuck!  Industrial fumes, brick factories, burning trash and old cars all contribute.  Yes the developing countries are producing things for western countries. I never said they didn't . But that is beside the point.  We are talking about modern cars and whether they are destroying the environment as Russell Brand says.

I mean as if he doesn't ever use a car.  I bet he's got a fair few more air miles than the average person as well, as Jay Edgar will have if hes been to 40 countries.

[jimmyjoy]

Give it a rest, this is getting boring now.

[Jay Edgar]

This is too easy - but hey...lets see:

First off, bye Jimmy. Heard you were bored.

 

But SleepyWill has written (in his best English)...

"I'm all for better representation of women, ethnic backgrounds et al, bring it on, but instead of shoehorning it into entertainment made for a different audience, make quality content that the demographic you wish to represent would like to watch".

 

Now I'm sure Wills is a top notch something or other, but please tell us what "entertainment made for a different audience" is? Do you mean Middle Aged White British Men?

Now SleepyWill (et al) - picture this (hypothetical) situation for a moment...

Your Wife goes to work.

Theres a bit of 'banter' with - her superior (But she tolerates him because he's so very popular with everyone)

She fails to do something to his liking.

He hits out at her violently, she falls. But its not so serious, thankfully. No hospital, but damnit she's shocked. And bloody angry.

But she's conflicted - everyone likes the boss, and he is a funny anachronistic old fcker. But deep down, you know he's a "very decent chap'.

This narrative is as i've said, obviously hypothetical. But - what do you do with that guy SleepyWill? Let him keep his job? Give him a third chance? (I wouldn't)

Perhaps its okay if the bruised ones a guy? And a foreign guy...

 

I'm guessing you are not so experienced in scriptwriting Wills, on account of you not being able to read so good.

I dd not say "I tolerate people saying Nigger" SleepyWill now did I?

Does it feel good to type that out fully? In my (black) neighbourhood we'd find that to be offensive banter, y'know? Very Offensive.

But well done for sticking up for young MattH. I'm sure he appreciated your defence. Unfortunately though, MattH isn't very well informed either....

 

For instance - Egypt. I take it from your description (MattH) you didn't enjoy the filth in Cairo. Sorry about that. 

Perhaps If the British Conservative Party (and British Labour Party, I know) hadn't stage-managed Hosni Mubarak's autocratic regime for 30 years, the cleanup for your arrival would've been faster. Of course Mr. C mightn't have agreed because I gather he's a rather staunch supporter.

The same filth you had to endure on your little trip, you will find in Myanmar. In India. In Nigeria. In Ghana. In Nepal. In Palestine. In Iraq. In South Africa. etc etc etc

Have you spotted a connection MattH? Yes. Thats right. They're all Jeremy Clarksons fault.

No. I'm joking. 

It's the fault of pampered, cushioned, disinterested sleepy people who think that their cotton sheets from Egypt, flowers from Kenya, Basil from Peru, Aluminium ores from Guinea, Ghanaian Gold for better headphone sound, iPhone coltan of Burundi, Uranium-powered electricity from Niger, and rare-earth elements for shiny Samyangs and cultish Cookes from Guyana and Mongolia, should be readily available to consumers at whatever cost (to the producing country's population). 

Sorry. Theres always a cost. Its called Underdevelopment. Post/Proxy/Colonialism. Filth (well spotted). Poverty. Immigration (Get ready, sorry). etc

 

If it seems like I'm forking into new territory for the heck of it - I'm not. This is your territory. My territory. Everyones territory. You can turn on, tune in and drop off to sleep if you like, but I believe its better to be straight up abut it. I am certainly not jealous of JC as some have suggested, I just think he broke some simple rules and set a bad example for fathers all over the world. 

And anyone on this forum who is getting tired of my calling out racist ignorance - Don;t worry. I'm off. i just bounced in here because my friends and I were offended at what Andrew Reid wrote about his 'Banter'. What MattH said that was ignorant, and what SleepyWill said that we consider totally racist.

 

Ich Bin Ein Auslander here in Middle Clarksonia I guess.

 

 

 

[MattH]

This is too easy - but hey...lets see:

First off, bye Jimmy. Heard you were bored.

 

But SleepyWill has written (in his best English)...

"I'm all for better representation of women, ethnic backgrounds et al, bring it on, but instead of shoehorning it into entertainment made for a different audience, make quality content that the demographic you wish to represent would like to watch".

 

Now I'm sure Wills is a top notch something or other, but please tell us what "entertainment made for a different audience" is? Do you mean Middle Aged White British Men?

Now SleepyWill (et al) - picture this (hypothetical) situation for a moment...

Your Wife goes to work.

Theres a bit of 'banter' with - her superior (But she tolerates him because he's so very popular with everyone)

She fails to do something to his liking.

He hits out at her violently, she falls. But its not so serious, thankfully. No hospital, but damnit she's shocked. And bloody angry.

But she's conflicted - everyone likes the boss, and he is a funny anachronistic old fcker. But deep down, you know he's a "very decent chap'.

This narrative is as i've said, obviously hypothetical. But - what do you do with that guy SleepyWill? Let him keep his job? Give him a third chance? (I wouldn't)

Perhaps its okay if the bruised ones a guy? And a foreign guy...

 

I'm guessing you are not so experienced in scriptwriting Wills, on account of you not being able to read so good.

I dd not say "I tolerate people saying Nigger" SleepyWill now did I?

Does it feel good to type that out fully? In my (black) neighbourhood we'd find that to be offensive banter, y'know? Very Offensive.

But well done for sticking up for young MattH. I'm sure he appreciated your defence. Unfortunately though, MattH isn't very well informed either....

 

For instance - Egypt. I take it from your description (MattH) you didn't enjoy the filth in Cairo. Sorry about that. 

Perhaps If the British Conservative Party (and British Labour Party, I know) hadn't stage-managed Hosni Mubarak's autocratic regime for 30 years, the cleanup for your arrival would've been faster. Of course Mr. C mightn't have agreed because I gather he's a rather staunch supporter.

The same filth you had to endure on your little trip, you will find in Myanmar. In India. In Nigeria. In Ghana. In Nepal. In Palestine. In Iraq. In South Africa. etc etc etc

Have you spotted a connection MattH? Yes. Thats right. They're all Jeremy Clarksons fault.

No. I'm joking. 

It's the fault of pampered, cushioned, disinterested sleepy people who think that their cotton sheets from Egypt, flowers from Kenya, Basil from Peru, Aluminium ores from Guinea, Ghanaian Gold for better headphone sound, iPhone coltan of Burundi, Uranium-powered electricity from Niger, and rare-earth elements for shiny Samyangs and cultish Cookes from Guyana and Mongolia, should be readily available to consumers at whatever cost (to the producing country's population). 

Sorry. Theres always a cost. Its called Underdevelopment. Post/Proxy/Colonialism. Filth (well spotted). Poverty. Immigration (Get ready, sorry). etc

 

If it seems like I'm forking into new territory for the heck of it - I'm not. This is your territory. My territory. Everyones territory. You can turn on, tune in and drop off to sleep if you like, but I believe its better to be straight up abut it. I am certainly not jealous of JC as some have suggested, I just think he broke some simple rules and set a bad example for fathers all over the world. 

And anyone on this forum who is getting tired of my calling out racist ignorance - Don;t worry. I'm off. i just bounced in here because my friends and I were offended at what Andrew Reid wrote about his 'Banter'. What MattH said that was ignorant, and what SleepyWill said that we consider totally racist.

 

Ich Bin Ein Auslander here in Middle Clarksonia I guess.

 

 

 

​

Wow!  I mean I don't usually recommend drugs but for you I think I make an exception.   

Again, non of the shit you just posted proved that modern cars are destroying the environment.  That is just such a childish thing for someone to say.  

What do you or Russell brand suggest we should to to obliterate the usage of cars in the world?

 

It seems you have this idea in your head that you are the super aware guy who is intelligent enough to know all the worlds problems, and that any one who disagrees with you just one little bit is a union jack waving, pims drinking ultra consumerist who is too stuck up or stupid to realise all the stuff you know.  

Here is something else I don't usually say, but here it just fits:  Get over yourself!  Unless you do not wear clothes, eat food or use electronics made with things produced in other countries, Get over your fucking self!

 

Lets suppose I didn't know that western establishment capitalists where and are exploiting other countries.  Lets suppose I didn’t already know, and that you just informed me.  What do you suggest I do about it, other than whinge?

 

[SleepyWill]

But SleepyWill has written (in his best English)...

Wait, you, a native English speaker is passively aggressively insulting my English (For whom it is a third language)  when you misspell did as "dd", randomly capitalise words mid sentence, like "Wife" which is not a proper noun in the context you used it and push the definition of sentence to include "Post/Proxy/Colonialism.". They teach this stuff to 7 and 8 year old children!

Now SleepyWill (et al) - picture this (hypothetical) situation for a moment...

Your Wife goes to work.

Theres a bit of 'banter' with - her superior (But she tolerates him because he's so very popular with everyone)

She fails to do something to his liking.

He hits out at her violently, she falls. But its not so serious, thankfully. No hospital, but damnit she's shocked. And bloody angry.

But she's conflicted - everyone likes the boss, and he is a funny anachronistic old fcker. But deep down, you know he's a "very decent chap'.

This narrative is as i've said, obviously hypothetical. But - what do you do with that guy SleepyWill? Let him keep his job? Give him a third chance? (I wouldn't)

Perhaps its okay if the bruised ones a guy? And a foreign guy...

 OK, I'll play. My wife works at CERN, so presumably her boss in your scenario is someone like Stephen Hawking (Forgive me for not having a better grasp of physicists, but as far as I know, he is the superstar physicist in the world, the Jeremy Clarkson of the field, if you will). You're asking me what I would do if Stephen Hawking (Who is a foreigner) hits out at my wife violently and she falls. Well, I would have to consider this very carefully, because on the one hand, Stephen Hawking is an inspiration to several generations of humans, he has achieved so much and can continue to achieve so much more. On the other hand, I'm not a misogynist who would presume to speak and act for my wife. She's perfectly capable of fighting her own battles, acting in an appropriate way without her husband sticking his oar in and I would fully support her in whatever action she decided was appropriate. Even if that action, as with Oisin, was to not take any action.

I'm guessing you are not so experienced in scriptwriting Wills, on account of you not being able to read so good.

I dd not say "I tolerate people saying Nigger" SleepyWill now did I?

Does it feel good to type that out fully? In my (black) neighbourhood we'd find that to be offensive banter, y'know? Very Offensive.

But well done for sticking up for young MattH. I'm sure he appreciated your defence. Unfortunately though, MattH isn't very well informed either....

Hmmm... How else do you interpret the following: "Andrew...you can use the N word or any other word and I won't be offended if its in person." That right there is you tolerating the use of the word nigger. Oh, for what it's worth, writing or saying "The N Word" is no different to writing or saying nigger, only some find it more offensive! Did it feel good to type it out? Yes, every time. I grew up in a "White neighbourhood", well, a white country and was abused with the word for most of my life. When certain black rappers took the power out of the word by using it in their music, in their banter, openly removing the sting of that word I was delighted. I will continue to use the word that has been a yoke to my culture for the rest of my life and I couldn't give a monkeys about what you think about me.

Oh... did you assume I was white?

And finally, while I don't agree 100% with Matt, I will call out your passive aggressive cowardice whenever I see it. You are a coward by the way, we all know this account is a shill for your real account. Say this under your real username, or are you intending on calling Andrew racist as well, but want to continue to post here without repercussions for trying to wrongly smear him?

​

[SleepyWill]

But SleepyWill has written (in his best English)...

"I'm all for better representation of women, ethnic backgrounds et al, bring it on, but instead of shoehorning it into entertainment made for a different audience, make quality content that the demographic you wish to represent would like to watch".

 

Now I'm sure Wills is a top notch something or other, but please tell us what "entertainment made for a different audience" is? Do you mean Middle Aged White British Men?

 

 

​I forgot to answer this little diamond. Here goes: Nearly all tv is written with a target audience in mind. If you had a brilliant idea for a show and you approached the BBC with it, you would have to tell them who you had written it for, which demographic were going to watch your product. Imagine you run a successful panel show, say, The Last Leg, which is written for a disabled audience, who put women guests on when they find a woman guest that they think their audience will find interesting. Now, if you broadcast on the BBC, you would be forced, by compliance to put an equal number of women guests in, whether they were of interest to disabled people or not.

Actually this is an interesting example because The Last Leg has changed it's remit over the last couple of seasons to "teens through to middle aged of any ability but still with a focus on issues that affect the disabled", but it's interesting in a way that doesn't affect the question you asked.

And yes, I am well aware that the vast majority of TV produced in Britain is targeted at white males. Not so sure about the middle aged bit myself, but certainly white male. What I am saying in the quote above is that I agree with the BBC that it is a problem. I don't agree that the solution is to force people to put females into their shows, weakening the show for the audience who enjoy it. It's not that they are females that weakens the show, it's that they would already be on the show if they were the strongest candidate as a guest. So you end up not including a stronger candidate, to put on the weaker candidate in order to meet the absurd ruling and making your show less relevant to the people who watch it.

So, my idea to solve this problem, which I stated in your quote, is to make more tv that targets a black audience, a female audience, an older audience, a younger audience... just diversify what programming is actually put out. If you put on programs that target women as the core audience, you will naturally find that you have a greater number of women being represented in a gender positive way on tv, because these shows will naturally find that women will have much more to say of interest  and relevance to women. Look at Loose women, it demonstrates exactly that I am correct. We need more shows like that, competing for the prime time slots, and the diversity of tv will happen naturally, tv will get stronger for it and most importantly, no woman will ever be told "You're only on here because of compliance, our first choice was a man."

[Lammy]

This new article from Andrew is much better than the last article on it. 

The thing about this is ideally, BBC want to keep Clarkson. Director-General Tony Hall is a fan. I don't think Clarkson is being disproportionately punished at all - getting suspended for the time being for verbal/physical abuse is I can agree with. If he gets taken to rehab, sensitivity training and whatnot, and settles with Oisin - even better for all involved. 

I will disagree about the public mob shaming thing. It's a two-pronged, yes the people can band together to do real positive change, or real negative change.  It really depends on what's percieved to be at stake and the culture. In many other a time and place, Oisin may have had to commit suicide for "failing" his senior.

The PR advisor makes a joke about white entitlement- that's just unwise and the wrong platform. It'd be like replacing the BBC News at 6 with Brass Eye - people will misunderstand unless they're given the proper rules and context, which unfortunately they didn't because of the rubbish that is a twitter retweet. Actually a lot of people complained about Brass Eye even though it was shown late night on Channel 4 anyway (but I'm sure less than if it was on prime time).

Critics and fans keep each other in line with standards all the time. Jeremy may say something, and James May or the Producer may go "Ah mate, that's a little out of line. Let's cut it". Steve Coogan did it on the show and in an article. Anyway I've said all I got to say on my opinion the creative brand of humour check.

I do agree with most of what Russell Brand is saying on the matter, which is pretty much what Clarkson was talking about in his Sun article on the individual old attitude and dinosaur thing.

About cars... come on guys - have you looked at the streets and highways and thought how ugly it is? It pollutes my eyes seeing how inconsistent the designs of all cars are! And the smell. And the amount of resources used to create a car and to run a car. While a car is essential for most people in the country, it's really a luxury for everyone else. Better public transport, more walking and cycling is always good for the environment and everyone's health!