hyalinejim Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Got my XC10 this morning. Still playing with it when I really should be working! As promised I slapped an Isco pre36 on it to see if it's usable. Shots below are at 24mm, 80, 240 and 80. There's slight vignetting at 80mm, which turns to pronounced white vignetting when pointed at a light source. Nevertheless, it's nice to have the option of a stabilised 80-240 anamorphic, even if it is at 5.6 on a 1" sensor. mercer, Tim Sewell, jpfilmz and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 6 hours ago, kidzrevil said: Yeah this is in ny! I live here you know :-D This was with a black satin though. Works well with CLOG as it smooths the shadow transitions and fine detail...that usually helps the image compress better. Im gonna try using a heavier grade soon since this grade of filter was so light Ha, yeah I know, but I thought you said you were in LA. I've gotta try one of them contrast filters. Have you ever tried the Schneider Digicon filters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyalinejim Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 On 8/14/2016 at 11:58 AM, Lintelfilm said: Has anyone else noticed weird ghosting/banding with the XC10? It's most visible in out of focus areas (hence blurred images below). I've noticed it most in 4K though not sure about HD. My best guess is it's something to do with IS but I really have no idea. I've never seen anything like it before. Images below (look at the skin/face in the first two, and to the right of the face in profile on the last image for a "ghost profile" in the shadow). Very weird.). The XC10 manual says "ghosting, artefacts and/or dark areas may appear when using Dynamic IS" --- however Dynamic IS isn't available in 4K mode (which the frame grabs above are from). I'll do some tests with/without IS but if anyone has experienced this too I'd like to hear about it. Yes, I see it and it's not pretty! I noticed it first in HD (after firmware update) and to a lesser extent in 4K. Switching between IS modes makes no difference but it does increase with ISO. It makes HD footage unusable at 3200 if there's any movement of high contrast areas. The DV Info review points it out and theorises that the ghosting artifacts are due to an in-camera temporal noise reduction. The reviewer spotted it during a rolling shutter test: Now that I've seen it in my own footage I can't unsee it! It seems to even be present, but very subtly, at 500. Whack up the ISO a bit, zoom in on a contrasty line and wiggle the camera a bit. You'll see it too ? Now, I know the latest firmware "improved" high ISO performance in HD. But has it caused a worsening of ghosting? I took only a handful of shots before updating so I can't really check for sure. Of course, the sensible thing would be to have an option to disable all noise reduction but... it's Canon. Lintelfilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 18 hours ago, mercer said: Ha, yeah I know, but I thought you said you were in LA. I've gotta try one of them contrast filters. Have you ever tried the Schneider Digicon filters? Yeah im in LA just for a gig but ill be back on the 17th. Haven't tried the digicon but I hear good things about em. The tiffen ultracons are great too! 5 hours ago, hyalinejim said: Yes, I see it and it's not pretty! I noticed it first in HD (after firmware update) and to a lesser extent in 4K. Switching between IS modes makes no difference but it does increase with ISO. It makes HD footage unusable at 3200 if there's any movement of high contrast areas. The DV Info review points it out and theorises that the ghosting artifacts are due to an in-camera temporal noise reduction. The reviewer spotted it during a rolling shutter test: Now that I've seen it in my own footage I can't unsee it! It seems to even be present, but very subtly, at 500. Whack up the ISO a bit, zoom in on a contrasty line and wiggle the camera a bit. You'll see it too ? Now, I know the latest firmware "improved" high ISO performance in HD. But has it caused a worsening of ghosting? I took only a handful of shots before updating so I can't really check for sure. Of course, the sensible thing would be to have an option to disable all noise reduction but... it's Canon. I wish there was an option to disable NR but it seems every camera manufacturer throws it in. I deleted hella footage shot at 3200. Its noticeable on handheld footage to me at least. Just hope my client doesn't notice it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 1 hour ago, kidzrevil said: Yeah im in LA just for a gig but ill be back on the 17th. Haven't tried the digicon but I hear good things about em. The tiffen ultracons are great too! I wish there was an option to disable NR but it seems every camera manufacturer throws it in. I deleted hella footage shot at 3200. Its noticeable on handheld footage to me at least. Just hope my client doesn't notice it ? Gotcha. Are there any issues stacking a fader nd on top of a low con filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 40 minutes ago, mercer said: Gotcha. Are there any issues stacking a fader nd on top of a low con filter? Some people do it but I do not recommend stacking filters. You can get some weird sensor reflections when you stack filters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lintelfilm Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 On 10/11/2016 at 1:08 AM, hyalinejim said: Yes, I see it and it's not pretty! I noticed it first in HD (after firmware update) and to a lesser extent in 4K. Switching between IS modes makes no difference but it does increase with ISO. It makes HD footage unusable at 3200 if there's any movement of high contrast areas. The DV Info review points it out and theorises that the ghosting artifacts are due to an in-camera temporal noise reduction. The reviewer spotted it during a rolling shutter test: Now that I've seen it in my own footage I can't unsee it! It seems to even be present, but very subtly, at 500. Whack up the ISO a bit, zoom in on a contrasty line and wiggle the camera a bit. You'll see it too ? Now, I know the latest firmware "improved" high ISO performance in HD. But has it caused a worsening of ghosting? I took only a handful of shots before updating so I can't really check for sure. Of course, the sensible thing would be to have an option to disable all noise reduction but... it's Canon. Thanks for letting me know about the DV Info review. In a bad sort of way it's good to know it's not just a problem with my unit. It hasn't destroyed any shots for me as it's fairly well hidden by motion when video is playing. On 10/8/2016 at 4:53 PM, Amook said: Here's a few clips in c-log Hd, as well as some 60p shots. I'm not a very good at color grading so I know it could be better. I had my daughter in a pack on my back of all these shots so the stabilization helped a lot. A fine example of what this camera is great at. I must remember to use HD mode more!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyalinejim Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 52 minutes ago, Lintelfilm said: It hasn't destroyed any shots for me as it's fairly well hidden by motion when video is playing. That's good to know. Doing a real world run and gun shoot tomorrow so will have a chance to delve in more detail into image quality. I bought the XC10 for easy hand held work so it would be a shame if ghosting compromised my ability to wave the camera around like a lunatic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Cascioli Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Hello everyone, I'm new on this forum, I just wanted to have some feedback from some canon XC10 user. I used to test the camera with an external recorder NINJA ASSASSIN and results were surprising. I hope to be able to exchange of views with someone who has had the same experience. thank so much mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 So far I've not been too annoyed with it, but yes I've noticed this ghosting. Actually today is the first time it properly annoyed me on an edit, and someone else said "what's that weird stuff" A bit of a shame, since stabilisation is a big part of the point of the camera Lintelfilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyalinejim Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I honestly can't see the difference between the various IS modes and their effect on ghosting. It's just as visible with IS off. It's minimised at ISO 500 but detail still seems to get smeared when the camera moves. Time for a good ol' Lets Petition Canon Party? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amook Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I have to agree. I see it often and think it's something canon could probably fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I haven't seen it once, but I mostly shoot in HD on the wide end, but I exclusively use 5-Axis and I have whipped the camera around fairly fast. If I'm not mistaken I remember reading in the manual that ghosting can occur on the long end, but it seems you guys are noticing it even on the wide end? If it's ISO related, then I may never notice it because I rarely go higher than 500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyalinejim Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I think it's quite likely that it's less noticeable on the wide end because there is generally less motion within the frame when shooting wide. If you were to do a whip pan or have a speeding object move through the frame, you would see ghosting at 24mm. Canon's spiel is BS. It's not IS related, it's not (directly) focal length related. It's a shitty temporal NR process which can't be switched off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 17 minutes ago, hyalinejim said: I think it's quite likely that it's less noticeable on the wide end because there is generally less motion within the frame when shooting wide. If you were to do a whip pan or have a speeding object move through the frame, you would see ghosting at 24mm. Canon's spiel is BS. It's not IS related, it's not (directly) focal length related. It's a shitty temporal NR process which can't be switched off. I thought c-log didn't have any noise reduction? 4 hours ago, Claudio Cascioli said: Hello everyone, I'm new on this forum, I just wanted to have some feedback from some canon XC10 user. I used to test the camera with an external recorder NINJA ASSASSIN and results were surprising. I hope to be able to exchange of views with someone who has had the same experience. thank so much Hello Claudio and welcome. It's always good to hear from another XC10 owner. I believe @Lintelfilm uses the Ninja Star with the XC10, but I am very interested in hearing about your results or seeing some footage of the pair. Lintelfilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lintelfilm Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 23 hours ago, Claudio Cascioli said: Hello everyone, I'm new on this forum, I just wanted to have some feedback from some canon XC10 user. I used to test the camera with an external recorder NINJA ASSASSIN and results were surprising. I hope to be able to exchange of views with someone who has had the same experience. thank so much The XC10's HDMI output is done via 50i/60i (interlaced) so you have to set the Ninja to convert it back. It doesn't affect image quality. I believe Canon do this so that HDMI output works smoothly when connecting to TVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRenaissanceMan Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Shoot...that means it won't work properly with the BMVA, which can't do 3:2 pull down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyalinejim Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 TOP TIP: When shooting C Log set screen backlight to high and drop brightness for a poor man's lut. This helps a bit in judging exposure. mercer and TheRenaissanceMan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 23 minutes ago, hyalinejim said: TOP TIP: When shooting C Log set screen backlight to high and drop brightness for a poor man's lut. This helps a bit in judging exposure. Great tip, I'll give that a try... Thanks! Also, are you exposing to the right with c-log... I have heard a bunch of conflicting methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted October 13, 2016 Super Members Share Posted October 13, 2016 I always ETTR C-log. Works great for me and makes the workflow fast. mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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