Canon XC10 4K camcorder

[hyalinejim]

Ghost free!

Big thanks for that @tomsemiterrific. Looks clean as a whistle on my end, no motion ghosting. If I did what you did with my cam, it'd look like we were all on mushrooms. ..

@mercer or any other XC10 owner, can you check if your results are clean @20000 ISO like tom, or sick like kidzrevil and me?

[kidzrevil]

Thats all we need is a sample. Dont get me wrong guys im only bringing this up to get a firmware update for the camera if need be

1 hour ago, tomsemiterrific said:

Kidzrevil--here's the video you wanted to see. Where do you find the kind of Ghosting shown in your original example. Shot in 4k, HDR CP, with sharpening....

 

Is this the xc15 ???? Theres absolutely no ghosting 

@hyalinejim I think we need to send our bodies in dude 

[tomsemiterrific]

32 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

Thats all we need is a sample. Dont get me wrong guys im only bringing this up to get a firmware update for the camera if need be

Is this the xc15 ???? Theres absolutely no ghosting 

@hyalinejim I think we need to send our bodies in dude 

Yes, this is the XC15. I sold my XC10 to purchase it---I never noticed any issue with the XC10, but perhaps I'm not as skilled or attentive to details as i should be. I do a lot of education videos and the new XLR attachment and audio processing offered on the XC15 is excellent--had to have it, and now the XC15 is complete, at least for my primary purposes.

Note, that a firmware update is coming for the XC10 that will give it the Cps and color space of the XC15--and (I hope) the waveform as well. It is very, very helpful, especially shooting in Log. Could it not be possible that Canon knows about this issue, and has silently addressed the issue in the XC15, and plan to do the same for the XC10 in its next firmware update???

 

[hyalinejim]

I sure hope so Tom. That's very exciting about a firmware update. Even though I don't know anything about this CPS colour space. Must google it.

Y'know I'm pretty sure you would have spotted ghosting on your XC10 if it had it. All the same, I'd still like to see a similar clip from an XC10 without ghosting.

@kidzrevil It's looking more likely that we should send ours in. We know now that not all XC15s have ghosting. But it could still be the case that all XC10s do, and the difference is due to software processing. We still need to see a high ISO XC10 clip without ghosting.

I tried one in a shop yesterday and it was like Ghostie McGhosterton. Who else owns an XC10 round here?

[tomsemiterrific]

17 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

I sure hope so Tom. That's very exciting about a firmware update. Even though I don't know anything about this CPS colour space. Must google it.

Y'know I'm pretty sure you would have spotted ghosting on your XC10 if it had it. All the same, I'd still like to see a similar clip from an XC10 without ghosting.

@kidzrevil It's looking more likely that we should send ours in. We know now that not all XC15s have ghosting. But it could still be the case that all XC10s do, and the difference is due to software processing. We still need to see a high ISO XC10 clip without ghosting.

I tried one in a shop yesterday and it was like Ghostie McGhosterton. Who else owns an XC10 round here?

The new custom profiles include profiles that were previously only in the C300 Mk II...they are nice, and bring different color space content with them. I still tend to shoot in C-log, just because it gets such great results. But I have to admit C-log 2 has more dynamic range. C-log 3 has actually less than C-log 2, but more than C-log. It exists because it gives you close to as much dynamic range as C-log 2, but is easier to grade, similar to C-log. I really like the image. The HDR Custom profile is excellent as well.

[BenEricson]

The XC15 with the audio console looks killer. It looks like the ghosting issue has been solved as well? May have to pull the trigger on purchase if so.

Is C-LOG 2/3 available on the XC10 as well?

[tomsemiterrific]

2 hours ago, BenEricson said:

The XC15 with the audio console looks killer. It looks like the ghosting issue has been solved as well? May have to pull the trigger on purchase if so.

Is C-LOG 2/3 available on the XC10 as well?

No. All that is provided is C-log. Personally, that is fine with me, because it does give you 12 stops of dynamic range--and is super easy to grade and looks beautiful.  I have a C300 Mk 2, and use C-log on both and match them extremely well, colors are exact, and the only difference is DOF---which is really not a problem regarding image quality.

The XLR audio is excellent on the XC15....very clean, with a low noise floor---IMO, worth every penny for the kind of shooting I do.

[mercer]

5 hours ago, tomsemiterrific said:

Kidzrevil--here's the video you wanted to see. Where do you find the kind of Ghosting shown in your original example. Shot in 4k, HDR CP, with sharpening....

 

Yeah the XC15 looks nice, even at 20,000 ISO.

[jpfilmz]

I just ran a series of test with the XC10.  First set I was getting slight ghosting.  Not as clean as tomsemiterrific's footage.  I then went into the camera and turned off everything...all image stabilization features, all auto focus features, including on the body of the camera, flicker reduction off, shockless WB off, rolling shutter reduction off and with those setting I was able to greatly eliminate ghosting affects in my footage.  EDIT I also tried with with rolling shutter reduction turned back on and had similar results.  Could someone else try with these setting off and see if that helps.  I'll try to post some of my footage.

[mercer]

5 minutes ago, jpfilmz said:

I just ran a series of test with the XC10.  First set I was getting slight ghosting.  Not as clean as tomsemiterrific's footage.  I then went into the camera and turned off everything...all image stabilization features, all auto focus features, including on the body of the camera, flicker reduction off, shockless WB off, rolling shutter reduction off and with those setting I was able to greatly eliminate ghosting affects in my footage.  EDIT I also tried with with rolling shutter reduction turned back on and had similar results.  Could someone else try with these setting off and see if that helps.  I'll try to post some of my footage.

Good test. Are you going to add a feature with every test to see if you can pinpoint the issue?

[jpfilmz]

1 minute ago, mercer said:

Good test. Are you going to add a feature with every test to see if you can pinpoint the issue?

 

Yes.  I suspect the autofocus is the main culprit but I could be wrong. ISO in the video below was at 3200.

 

[kidzrevil]

@jpfilmz wow ! im going to try and disable my autofocus and see what happens

[Lintelfilm]

1 hour ago, jpfilmz said:

I just ran a series of test with the XC10.  First set I was getting slight ghosting.  Not as clean as tomsemiterrific's footage.  I then went into the camera and turned off everything...all image stabilization features, all auto focus features, including on the body of the camera, flicker reduction off, shockless WB off, rolling shutter reduction off and with those setting I was able to greatly eliminate ghosting affects in my footage.  EDIT I also tried with with rolling shutter reduction turned back on and had similar results.  Could someone else try with these setting off and see if that helps.  I'll try to post some of my footage.

I was just about to do the same thing. My guess was AF or IS or rolling shutter reduction. I'll do some tests of my own and post when I can. 

FWIW out of focus objects seem to show more ghosting.

[mercer]

25 minutes ago, jpfilmz said:

Yes.  I suspect the autofocus is the main culprit but I could be wrong. ISO in the video below was at 3200.

 

Btw, just watched your Cinema EOS  test video... Looks good. That's one of the profiles I want to dive into next. 

[kidzrevil]

21 minutes ago, Lintelfilm said:

I was just about to do the same thing. My guess was AF or IS or rolling shutter reduction. I'll do some tests of my own and post when I can. 

FWIW out of focus objects seem to show more ghosting.

Hmm maybe it's how the ghosting we are seeing is some type of delay the autofocus uses to lock on to areas of high contrast. Thats how contrast AF works right ?  maybe thats why the ghosting is more prevalent on high contrast objects...

I used a heavy grade diffusion filter the other day and there was less ghosting...I think you are onto something 

[Lintelfilm]

I just turned everything off and the ghosting is still there. It's much less regular and visible - I think when IS is off because all the motion blur hides it more, but it's definitely still there. @Jpfilmz can you try again to make sure?

[Lintelfilm]

47 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

Hmm maybe it's how the ghosting we are seeing is some type of delay the autofocus uses to lock on to areas of high contrast. Thats how contrast AF works right ?  maybe thats why the ghosting is more prevalent on high contrast objects...

I used a heavy grade diffusion filter the other day and there was less ghosting...I think you are onto something 

The test I just did showed clear ghosting of an in-focus object so I think I'm wrong about the OOF being more pronounced. I also turned AF off and ghosting is still there. 

[UHDjohn]

9 hours ago, tomsemiterrific said:

Yes, this is the XC15. I sold my XC10 to purchase it---I never noticed any issue with the XC10, but perhaps I'm not as skilled or attentive to details as i should be. I do a lot of education videos and the new XLR attachment and audio processing offered on the XC15 is excellent--had to have it, and now the XC15 is complete, at least for my primary purposes.

Note, that a firmware update is coming for the XC10 that will give it the Cps and color space of the XC15--and (I hope) the waveform as well. It is very, very helpful, especially shooting in Log. Could it not be possible that Canon knows about this issue, and has silently addressed the issue in the XC15, and plan to do the same for the XC10 in its next firmware update???

 

How do you know there is a firmware update in the pipeline - it would be normal commercial practice for Canon to abandon the XC10 and push sales of the XC15.

[Lintelfilm]

10 hours ago, tomsemiterrific said:

Note, that a firmware update is coming for the XC10 that will give it the Cps and color space of the XC15--and (I hope) the waveform as well. It is very, very helpful, especially shooting in Log. Could it not be possible that Canon knows about this issue, and has silently addressed the issue in the XC15, and plan to do the same for the XC10 in its next firmware update???

I can't find anything about new firmware via Google. Where did you hear this?

[hyalinejim]

5 hours ago, jpfilmz said:

I then went into the camera and turned off everything...all image stabilization features, all auto focus features, including on the body of the camera, flicker reduction off, shockless WB off, rolling shutter reduction off and with those setting I was able to greatly eliminate ghosting affects in my footage.  EDIT I also tried with with rolling shutter reduction turned back on and had similar results.  Could someone else try with these setting off and see if that helps.  I'll try to post some of my footage.

Thanks @jpfilmz for your test footage.

3 hours ago, Lintelfilm said:

I just turned everything off and the ghosting is still there.

I can confirm that ghosting exists at ISO500 with everything switched off. Here's a CLog frame grab with contrast expanded:

Look at the curved handle on the RHS - there's a ghost image. This is affecting motion cadence at all ISOs.

@jpfilmz @Lintelfilm @mercer @HugoS316 and all other XC10 owners:

It's time to contact Canon! Send them your ghosting footage and/or  links to the threads here and ask them to resolve the issue.