Canon XC10 4K camcorder

[Oliver Daniel]

Pretty sure it does 60fps at 1080p?

But yea, the lens is the big downer, for sure.... Image looks stunning though, both examples show it looking very organic in both warm and cool grades.

​The 120fps is 720p... but then the Canon C100 doesn't do that either. Product segmentation. 

Have you seen this? ...Great short!! (nice footage too). 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/mhw_LGfvigc

[Jimmy]

Yea, it's a great one... Certainly has a distinct look.

[MattH]

Win. Just wow. I can't wait until the anti-Canon folks try to explain how this looks bad. 

​Its an instagram pseudo film grade with milk blacks, but apart from that the image looks ok.  Just a few nondescript test shots edited to an indi soundtrack.

This cameras main problem is the lack of lens options.  No wide aperture options, no wide angle option, no telephoto option.  But for the people for whom the money is nothing, it will be a convenient tool.

If this came with a selection of stabilised lenses designed for the format it would be fantastic.

 

[VanDaven]

While I was also rather skeptical about the XC10, I ordered it and I am definitely going to keep it. While it is definitely true that the lens performance in regards to shifting aperture is annoying, there are enough positives about this little camera that make it a keeper for me. 

• Image quality: Absolutely stunning and in all regards a "baby C300". At 1080p, I don't like the 35 mbps 25p too much, but the 50 mbps / 50p looks absolutely gorgeous. I own a 4K-upgraded F5 and a GH4 (speedbooster / Canon glass and the inevitable 12-35). Looks definitely much nicer "out of the box" than my GH4. 

• Lens: Only wide open gives you f2.8, the higher the focal length the less the f-stop up to f5.6. That is a bummer, but else the optical performance of the lens is excellent. No focus breathing and it's parfocal. Other than most the Canon L-glass I use, the T-stop is also the same at any focal length. Also worth mentioning: The lens will maintain the (higher) aperture if you set it, meaning if you set it to f5.6 it will also stay on the same f-stop at wider zoom stages. The camera electronics maintain this constant f-stop in a pretty quickly, only a full crash-zoom will shortly lead to a slightly brighter image (nothing like the flashy Panasonic 12-35). Manual focus is fly-by-wire, the camera offers three different modes for that (slow / normal / fast). The lens only closes to f11, but a built-in ND filters makes up for that. 

• IS: Optical & digital (only at HD recording) image stabilization is pretty effective and makes handheld shooting without adding additional weight a breeze. 

• Sensor crop: In case you're still fine with recording HD, sensor crop mode can also be activated in 2 different ways: First off, you can select a 2x crop mode that is not quite as sharp as the downsampled, but hey, you at least get 50mm focal length @ f2.8. Second way to crop in is to use the dynamic digital image stabilization which crops into the image by about 13,5%.

• Body, controls and loupe: The design of the body with the rotating hand-grip is very smart and well-balanced, much easier for handheld operation in comparison to a regular still image camera. Only three user-assignable buttons mean that a number of functions (like ISO, audio gain etc.) have to be assigned from the menu via the (very precise) joystick, but at least for me it was easy to get used to this. Imho still better than the tight layout of the C300 (where you can accidentally touch a couple of buttons by just picking up the body). The included loupe solution that you just stick on the viewfinder is a very good idea. It distorts a little bit, but I prefer this solution any day when shooting outside on the GH4 (without an additional EVF unit). It tilts really easily and is very comfortable. 

Personal Usage: 

Working with heavier camera setups (PDW700 ENG, F5/55 etc.) makes me often wish for something lightweight and versatile, especially for news / report / documentary B-roll shots. That's what I got the GH4 for, but I never really liked the image (and I experimented a lot with different settings). Now that I bought the XC10, the GH4 will stay in the storage more often. Even though it has some drawbacks and might not appeal to some users, the form factor, zoom range, image quality etc. is ideal for my applications. I could even imagine shooting documentaries and reports purely on the XC10. 

Price: Here in Europe the XC10 sells for a little bit less than 2K €. What you get for the money is an interesting design of a "DSLR-like" fixed-lens camera. If you don't need 4K and want to use expensive Cfast media, choose the cheap SD alternative and work in HD. The 1" sensor still gives you sufficient bokeh even at f5.6. 

While the XC10 might not be the best solution for many users, it does not deserve the bashing it gets on the web. And just a reminder: One of the most practical lenses in the "affordable" range for DSLRs is the Canon L 24-105, which has a constant f4 (definitely not a constant T), is not parfocal, has focus breathing, much inferior IS, is less sharp and still costs about 860 €. The XC10 stays on f4 until about 70mm. 

 

 

[AaronChicago]

While I was also rather skeptical about the XC10, I ordered it and I am definitely going to keep it. While it is definitely true that the lens performance in regards to shifting aperture is annoying, there are enough positives about this little camera that make it a keeper for me. 

• Image quality: Absolutely stunning and in all regards a "baby C300". At 1080p, I don't like the 35 mbps 25p too much, but the 50 mbps / 50p looks absolutely gorgeous. I own a 4K-upgraded F5 and a GH4 (speedbooster / Canon glass and the inevitable 12-35). Looks definitely much nicer "out of the box" than my GH4. 

• Lens: Only wide open gives you f2.8, the higher the focal length the less the f-stop up to f5.6. That is a bummer, but else the optical performance of the lens is excellent. No focus breathing and it's parfocal. Other than most the Canon L-glass I use, the T-stop is also the same at any focal length. Also worth mentioning: The lens will maintain the (higher) aperture if you set it, meaning if you set it to f5.6 it will also stay on the same f-stop at wider zoom stages. The camera electronics maintain this constant f-stop in a pretty quickly, only a full crash-zoom will shortly lead to a slightly brighter image (nothing like the flashy Panasonic 12-35). Manual focus is fly-by-wire, the camera offers three different modes for that (slow / normal / fast). The lens only closes to f11, but a built-in ND filters makes up for that. 

• IS: Optical & digital (only at HD recording) image stabilization is pretty effective and makes handheld shooting without adding additional weight a breeze. 

• Sensor crop: In case you're still fine with recording HD, sensor crop mode can also be activated in 2 different ways: First off, you can select a 2x crop mode that is not quite as sharp as the downsampled, but hey, you at least get 50mm focal length @ f2.8. Second way to crop in is to use the dynamic digital image stabilization which crops into the image by about 13,5%.

• Body, controls and loupe: The design of the body with the rotating hand-grip is very smart and well-balanced, much easier for handheld operation in comparison to a regular still image camera. Only three user-assignable buttons mean that a number of functions (like ISO, audio gain etc.) have to be assigned from the menu via the (very precise) joystick, but at least for me it was easy to get used to this. Imho still better than the tight layout of the C300 (where you can accidentally touch a couple of buttons by just picking up the body). The included loupe solution that you just stick on the viewfinder is a very good idea. It distorts a little bit, but I prefer this solution any day when shooting outside on the GH4 (without an additional EVF unit). It tilts really easily and is very comfortable. 

Personal Usage: 

Working with heavier camera setups (PDW700 ENG, F5/55 etc.) makes me often wish for something lightweight and versatile, especially for news / report / documentary B-roll shots. That's what I got the GH4 for, but I never really liked the image (and I experimented a lot with different settings). Now that I bought the XC10, the GH4 will stay in the storage more often. Even though it has some drawbacks and might not appeal to some users, the form factor, zoom range, image quality etc. is ideal for my applications. I could even imagine shooting documentaries and reports purely on the XC10. 

Price: Here in Europe the XC10 sells for a little bit less than 2K €. What you get for the money is an interesting design of a "DSLR-like" fixed-lens camera. If you don't need 4K and want to use expensive Cfast media, choose the cheap SD alternative and work in HD. The 1" sensor still gives you sufficient bokeh even at f5.6. 

While the XC10 might not be the best solution for many users, it does not deserve the bashing it gets on the web. And just a reminder: One of the most practical lenses in the "affordable" range for DSLRs is the Canon L 24-105, which has a constant f4 (definitely not a constant T), is not parfocal, has focus breathing, much inferior IS, is less sharp and still costs about 860 €. The XC10 stays on f4 until about 70mm. 

 

 

How do you feel about the 1" sensor? I feel like if it were Super 35 the slow lens wouldn't matter much.

[VanDaven]

How do you feel about the 1" sensor? I feel like if it were Super 35 the slow lens wouldn't matter much.

I don't see it as a limitation at all, every time I look at footage from the XC10 I think of 16mm. Given it's size, I think the 1" sensor has an impressive performance up to ISO 4000. After that, things get a little bit fuzzy because the noise reduction is starting to kick in like crazy and the picture gets a bit fuzzy. Tested the XC10 at ISO10000 today and it still delivers something (that you can sharpen / add grain to in post).

I have been running 'round with the Canon L 24-105 f4 on my (long-gone) 5D3 for years and also Sony's recommended lens for the FS7 is a constant f4 (and that's - also - not even a 5x zoom). 

I think it was never that affordable before to get Canon (broadcast) quality images out of an ultra-portable device.

[Kubrickian]

Have you tried shooting any stills? How are they? It's too bad they don't give you RAWs. 

[VanDaven]

Have you tried shooting any stills? How are they? It's too bad they don't give you RAWs. 

I am not too blown away by the XC10 as a photo camera to be honest. Und sufficient light the images are ok. The lack of RAW capabilities is definitely a downer, if Canon wants users to take the XC10 serious as a true hybrid, RAW photos will be hopefully added in a future firmware update. 

I see the XC10 as a 16mm UHD-capable video camera that comes with DSLR-like design and handling. Up to now I didn't notice any aliasing or moiré in the video material, which I appreciate very much. 

[Mattias Burling]

I am not too blown away by the XC10 as a photo camera to be honest. Und sufficient light the images are ok. The lack of RAW capabilities is definitely a downer, if Canon wants users to take the XC10 serious as a true hybrid, RAW photos will be hopefully added in a future firmware update. 

I see the XC10 as a 16mm UHD-capable video camera that comes with DSLR-like design and handling. Up to now I didn't notice any aliasing or moiré in the video material, which I appreciate very much. 

hey,

Is there a chance you could upload a short clip of ungraded c-log somewhere for download. Would be very appreciated

[VanDaven]

hey,

Is there a chance you could upload a short clip of ungraded c-log somewhere for download. Would be very appreciated

I will try as soon as I have some time off work!

[VanDaven]

By the way, there is some misinformation on the internet stating that the XC10 4K recording also works flawlessly with a previous generation Cfast1 card. Unfortunately, that is not true in my case, Cfast1 is too slow for 305 mbps 4K and ONLY works for 205 mbps 4K.

[Mattias Burling]

By the way, there is some misinformation on the internet stating that the XC10 4K recording also works flawlessly with a previous generation Cfast1 card. Unfortunately, that is not true in my case, Cfast1 is too slow for 305 mbps 4K and ONLY works for 205 mbps 4K.

Is it the Atomos Card? thats the one a reviewer said worked.

[VanDaven]

Yes, the Atomos Cfast1 128GB definitely does not work with 305 Mbps. Maybe that one reviewer was lucky to get an extraordinairy fast card...

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

How about 305mbps vs 205mbps image quality? 205mbps 4:2:2: is still incredibly high codec compared to the rivals. Is there a noticeable difference you can see? 

[Eduardo Portas]

Its an instagram pseudo film grade with milk blacks [...]

 

Hey Matt, could you explain for us newbies what's a "milk black".

Thanks.

 

How do you feel about the 1" sensor? I feel like if it were Super 35 the slow lens wouldn't matter much.

Hey Aaron, how have you circumvented the lack of a dedicated ISO button on the XC10?

I've gotten used to Canon's DLSR's bodies in that respect. It just seems counter-intuitive not have one?

Thanks.

 

[MattH]

Hey Matt, could you explain for us newbies what's a "milk black".

Thanks.

By milk black I mean that there is no actual black in the image, just grey.  And so the shadows look 'milky'.  This is due to grading choice,  when the shadows from a log image aren't lowered with a curve, or when the black level has been raised.  It's a look that I don't like.  To me It seems like a failed attempt to be arty.   And If people are actually seeing black on the video in question, I would suggest they turn the contrast on their monitor down.

[Eduardo Portas]

By milk black I mean that [...]

Thank you. That's a good description. 

[Mattias Burling]

 

Hey Aaron, how have you circumvented the lack of a dedicated ISO button on the XC10?

I've gotten used to Canon's DLSR's bodies in that respect. It just seems counter-intuitive not have one?

Thanks.

 

A click of the "joystick" opens the quick function menu, which is customisable. There you can have the ISO in spot number one.

To leave the menu is not as tricky as Digitalrev made it out to be. Just double click menu.

Also one can record from the fn menu. Not as good as not having an ISO button but maybe not the end of the world either. 

[hmcindie]

It's a look that I don't like.  To me It seems like a failed attempt to be arty.   And If people are actually seeing black on the video in question, I would suggest they turn the contrast on their monitor down.

The thing is...modern LCD's can't really do blacks anyway. So you always have a differing level of "grey" at the bottom. That's why I still love CRT monitors (eventhough they are way shitty for desktop use)

[TheRenaissanceMan]

The thing is...modern LCD's can't really do blacks anyway. So you always have a differing level of "grey" at the bottom. That's why I still love CRT monitors (eventhough they are way shitty for desktop use)

If you're willing to accept a narrow viewing angle, they can get damn close. Besides, consumer OLED is only a couple years off, and comes with the benefits of power efficiency, smaller size, larger color gamuts, and perfect viewing angles. 

Regardless, there's a difference between the look of a display without perfect black levels and grading your video so badly that black becomes middle grey.