KineMAX review part 1 - adventures in 6K raw and 110fps slow-mo

[Andrew Reid]

 

Camera provided by Kinefinity and HDVideoShop. Final hardware but pre-release firmware with some modes such as "Golden 3K" for 16-stop dynamic range not yet enabled.

The Kinefinity KineMAX is a serious piece of kit. It is possibly the best image I have ever shot with.

The 6K Super 35mm sensor delivers an absolutely incredible raw image, internally recorded and also a CineForm Proxy for quick editing.

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[Ed_David]

amazing looking - so it records KINERAW and has a transcoder to get to Cineform - http://www.kinefinity.com/kinemax/?lang=en

looks very exciting - I'd love to see how this compares to the Alexa, Red Dragon, Panasonic Varicam 35, etc.

What is the sensor on it?   Maybe similar to Red sensor.

[Andrew Reid]

It's Kinefinity raw so their own format in-camera and with a simultaneous (and actually rather lovely looking) CineForm proxy.

Then you have a very speedy converter app to create the Cinema DNG on your PC or Mac.

Then it is into Resolve to grade or edit. What I did was grade in there then ProRes for Premiere.

But if you need a faster turnaround you can just edit straight off the card with the CineForm Proxy, then do one big render at the end off the raw.

[Ed_David]

It's Kinefinity raw so their own format in-camera and with a simultaneous (and actually rather lovely looking) CineForm proxy.

Then you have a very speedy converter app to create the Cinema DNG on your PC or Mac.

Then it is into Resolve to grade or edit. What I did was grade in there then ProRes for Premiere.

But if you need a faster turnaround you can just edit straight off the card with the CineForm Proxy, then do one big render at the end off the raw.

​the workflow idea sounds very efficient.  I can't wait to see this camera in the real world and some tests against other cameras!

Well done - once again, finding a camera not many know about and showing the possibilities of it!  

[Geoff CB]

When I can afford it, this will be my next camera.

One important thing though, hows the rolling shutter on it Andrew? Better than the KineMINI?

EDIT: The number one thing that has me curious though is that 16-stop golden 3K. If the image is at the same level in cineform RAW like it says on their site that is the ideal workflow size.

[richg101]

wonderful.  i love the subject of the video too!  hilarious.

 

The magic of the kinefinity cameras is the sub PL mount they employ.  I made a custom speed booster for Rob Bannister a few months ago, and I have been told that Kinefinity are actually offering their own speed booster mount soon - meaning the low light and cleanliness of the image will benefit from the addition of another stop of lens speed, and the fov advantage too.

[Oliver Daniel]

I've always liked Kinefinity because the images from the camera have that much needed soul and tangibility. The BMCC has some of it, the Alexa has a lot of it, the D16 has a ton of it. Th emotional touch is worth so much!

I'll be keeping an eye on this thing and future products. 

With the news that the Blackmagic Water Tank Microwave 10" iPad URSA Bomb Disposal Camera has 150fps coming up, I hope this also means that the original BMCC will be replaced and that competition for products with soul gets very fierce!!

[Ed_David]

One thing to note - shooting at cineform RAW or DNG Raw takes up an incredible amount of space.  You get 45 minutes for a 256gb card.  On average, if you shoot doc stuff - that's like 2-3 hours of film a day - so that's like 1 TB of data per day - just for the raw then about 400 GB to transcode to pro res - so 1.5 TB of footage a day - that's quite a lot.

But for narrative work - this is going to be quite a fascinating camera to watch.

And so many cameras are getting beautiful looks, combined with really lovely color grading, more and more each camera is getting to such an amazing image quality at such a low price.  Very exciting times for everyone who wants filmmaking to be affordable!

[Geoff CB]

One thing to note - shooting at cineform RAW or DNG Raw takes up an incredible amount of space.  You get 45 minutes for a 256gb card.  On average, if you shoot doc stuff - that's like 2-3 hours of film a day - so that's like 1 TB of data per day - just for the raw then about 400 GB to transcode to pro res - so 1.5 TB of footage a day - that's quite a lot.

But for narrative work - this is going to be quite a fascinating camera to watch.

And so many cameras are getting beautiful looks, combined with really lovely color grading, more and more each camera is getting to such an amazing image quality at such a low price.  Very exciting times for everyone who wants filmmaking to be affordable!

​Yeah I don't think I would shoot anything at 6K uncompressed, storage would be insane. But I think the Golden 3K Cineform would strike the perfect balance in terms of detail, edit ability, and space/quality ratio.

[Andrew Reid]

It's not uncompressed raw.

[anchoricex]

Holy shit this is the most deliver I've ever seen come in a camera package. And for that price point. Oh my god. It's like it was born out of what people want out of a video camera. 

[silvertonesx24]

One thing about Kinefinity..their prices may be attractive, but they're somewhat deceiving

• You want 6k, yes of course, add $1000
• You want high frame rates, add $1000
• You want a battery grip, which does add nice functionality, that's $349, and literally feels like a $30 Canon knockoff
• You want SDI, that's $349
• Wifi, that's $349
• Kinestation (dirt-basic software) to transcode from KRW, $349

And the funny thing, is that the base model brain is hardware-capable of all of these features. 6k, wifi, everything. You're paying thousands for firmware to "unlock" these features.

Still no different that Redonomics, but I'd rather see someone truly disrupt rather than copy that shifty model at a lower price point.

[Kristoferman]

One thing about Kinefinity..their prices may be attractive, but they're somewhat deceiving

• You want 6k, yes of course, add $1000
• You want high frame rates, add $1000
• You want a battery grip, which does add nice functionality, that's $349, and literally feels like a $30 Canon knockoff
• You want SDI, that's $349
• Wifi, that's $349
• Kinestation (dirt-basic software) to transcode from KRW, $349

And the funny thing, is that the base model brain is hardware-capable of all of these features. 6k, wifi, everything. You're paying thousands for firmware to "unlock" these features.

Still no different that Redonomics, but I'd rather see someone truly disrupt rather than copy that shifty model at a lower price point.

It's still significantly cheaper than red though, even considering the extra charges. From what I've seen I like the image more than red too. Only thing really stopping me is the lack of customer service for the US

[jmad]

Andrew, have you had a chance to check out the 4K anamorphic mode yet? I'm very excited to see some footage.

[andrgl]

It's not uncompressed raw.

​Andrew, can you spare us mere mortals a few dng stills? Looking forward to your follow up article, thanks for looking into kine for us.

[jpb]

But if you need a faster turnaround you can just edit straight off the card with the CineForm Proxy,

​but then there is a pesky caveat (à la RED Epic) found in the firmware section of their leaflet :

" Fan generates noise. You can choose Record Stop in Fan setting to make FAN stop
works temporarily: Fan works when live view; Stops when recording begins so that
it is totally quiet when recording. Strongly Recommend fan running when recording
Cineform RAW."

What is your experience on this topic?

[gatopardo]

Thank you for the review Andrew, great camera and nice footage. You should work more on grading techniques. I find this terrible. Looking how great painters made color balance in their master works is one of the best way to start learning IMHO.

[Oliver Daniel]

Just had a another look online of Kine Camera footage and I have to say it's a sleeping giant of a camera image, certainly the best out there if we brought price into it. 

I only believe that if I buy a certain camera, that it will have the creative toolset to fuel better pictures and give more visual credit to the ideas, and I would attract more clients, and higher budgets. (Given that the content is also improving too!) 

Every camera needs skills to sing. What kind of effect do you think shooting on a camera like the KineMax will have on you creativily and in final quality output? No camera fits everyone. Thinking about how it fits is interesting. 

[Liszon]

silvertonesx24 

 

One thing about Kinefinity..their prices may be attractive, but they're somewhat deceiving

​

• You want 6k, yes of course, add $1000
• You want high frame rates, add $1000
• You want a battery grip, which does add nice functionality, that's $349, and literally feels like a $30 Canon knockoff
• You want SDI, that's $349
• Wifi, that's $349
• Kinestation (dirt-basic software) to transcode from KRW, $349

And the funny thing, is that the base model brain is hardware-capable of all of these features. 6k, wifi, everything. You're paying thousands for firmware to "unlock" these features.

Still no different that Redonomics, but I'd rather see someone truly disrupt rather than copy that shifty model at a lower price point.

​The funny thing is, you can completely turn this around.

You could say this is a 10 grand camera originally, but if you don't need certain features such as WiFi, Dual SDI or that battery grip you can knock the price down let's say by 1.5 grand.

A different example: I like the URSA, but the iPad on the front annoys me. I would gladly save £500 and get rid of it, buying an extra CFast card instead.

[Bkn Soc of Cinematography]

This camera is without a doubt intriguing but keep in mind to kit it out for work (as it's too pricey for hobbyists) the pro package starts at 13k. For 6k and Slo mo, add another 2k. So now you're looking at a 15k camera. At this point,  as a working cameraman you have to consider other options such as Sony f5 and C300 II, both of which have built in ND, EVF's and great US support, something missing so far from Kinefinity. Even if these cameras end up a couple grand more, ask yourself which one are clients and producers more likely to hire out? While some can afford to have gear that doesn't earn its rent, I can't. Also, what's truly missing from the Kine is built in ND, 12 volt accessory tap, and an EVF. Buying a new camera is bit like gambling on high yield high risk stocks as opposed lenses which are like the low yield long return investment. The F65 being the cautionary tale. As Kine seems fairly agile in redesign, I'm going to wait this one out and see if they add what I consider deal breaking features down the road.