Help me decide: Canon C300 Mark III or Sony FX9

[Jedi Master]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

It's the DSMC1 body (which is what came out after the RED ONE, the  DSMC2 though has been out for quite a while). But it is the Dragon sensor, which is the "newest" you can find in a  DSMC1 body. 

The one I’m looking at is the Dragon sensor in a DSMC2 body.

[TomTheDP]

31 minutes ago, Jedi Master said:

The one I’m looking at is the Dragon sensor in a DSMC2 body.

It's a great sensor. The DSMC2 System is light weight and the powerdraw isn't bad about 50wh. The C300 and FX9 powerdraw are probably half of what the Dragon is though. 

R3D and the red color science are really nice and the Dragon has pretty outstanding dynamic range. The dragon also is a bit of a baby. For optimal results you want to bring it up to temp and then blackshade it, which takes around 10 minutes. 

You probably won't want to venture much past 400 iso though, where as you can shoot at 4000 iso with the FX9 and 1600 on the C300 MKII with pretty clean results. 

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, Jedi Master said:

The one I’m looking at is the Dragon sensor in a DSMC2 body.

Ah, I was thinking of RED Epic-X Dragon

True, RED Dragon-X is something else (ugh, RED's naming...), same sensor though. 

But surely a DSMC2 body is a bit pricy? How much? Is it just the brain?? Once you add on everything else to make it fully functional (which is a lot), you're probably creeping close to ARRI AMIRA territory!! (which can be got for not much more at all than US$10K) Which would be one of my vaguely "affordable-ish" dream cameras right now. 

@QuickHitRecord very recently purchased an older RED (but a DSCM1), perhaps he can chip in with his experiences. 

  

40 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

It's a great sensor. The DSMC2 System is light weight and the powerdraw isn't bad about 50wh. The C300 and FX9 powerdraw are probably half of what the Dragon is though. 

Probably with a 50Wh power draw then they could just slap a massive 200Wh battery on it, and bring another spare 200Wh battery with them. 

40 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

R3D and the red color science are really nice and the Dragon has pretty outstanding dynamic range.

Arguably I'd say modern Blackmagics are better. 

40 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

The dragon also is a bit of a baby. For optimal results you want to bring it up to temp and then blackshade it, which takes around 10 minutes. 

Yeah, REDs in general are a bit of a pain to shoot with. 

And if you care about reliability... you wouldn't use them. 

Although I think this shouldn't be a major concern for @Jedi Master's use case. But if you are to exclude Blackmagic on the basis of reliability, then you MUST exclude all RED cameras (especially Dragon or MX era ones). 

 

40 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

You probably won't want to venture much past 400 iso though, where as you can shoot at 4000 iso with the FX9 and 1600 on the C300 MKII with pretty clean results. 

Yeah the older REDs (Dragon & MX) can make even the ancient old BMPCC look like a nifty "low light camera". 

[IronFilm]

7 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Probably with a 50Wh power draw then they could just slap a massive 200Wh battery on it, and bring another spare 200Wh battery with them. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/On-Camera-Batteries/ci/3469?sort=BEST_SELLERS&filters=fct_wattage-mah_3080%3A190-wh|192-wh|193-wh|195-wh|196-wh|198-wh 

You could maybe even settle for smaller 150Wh batteries. But I feel once you get under 100Wh then it gets annoying, you start to want to remember to baby the camera and turn it on / off all the time to make sure you get the most out of your couple of hours per battery. 

[Jedi Master]

21 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

But surely a DSMC2 body is a bit pricy? How much? Is it just the brain?? Once you add on everything else to make it fully functional (which is a lot), you're probably creeping close to ARRI AMIRA territory!! (which can be got for not much more at all than US$10K) Which would be one of my vaguely "affordable-ish" dream cameras right now. 

B&H has a kit that includes everything needed to get it up and running, including lens, for $10K.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1445147-REG/red_digital_cinema_710_0318_dsmc2_dragon_x_camera_kit.html

 

[IronFilm]

26 minutes ago, Jedi Master said:

B&H has a kit that includes everything needed to get it up and running, including lens, for $10K.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1445147-REG/red_digital_cinema_710_0318_dsmc2_dragon_x_camera_kit.html

It is a very minimal setup. 

And like I said, that price puts it within touching distance of a secondhand ARRI AMIRA. (or heck, a Panasonic Varicam LT for well under half the cost! https://www.ebay.com/itm/225662483059 I'd in a heartbeat go for the Varicam LT over any RED Dragon. Especially as you don't mind the weight or boot up time) 

I just don't see the appeal in buying an old RED (yes, it's brand new, but it's on its way out, mere seconds away from being discontinued). When you could for quite a bit less get the latest BMD / ZCam / Kinefinity / Fijifilm /  Panasonic. 

It's not the late 2000's / early 2010's, RED no longer holds any special significance in my eyes. 

Some options for you to consider:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1747932-REG/kinefinity_kc_m2_s35_apl_mavo_mark2_s35_body.html (also in E Mount)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1787634-REG/blackmagic_design_cinema_camera_6k.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1664826-REG/panasonic_dc_bs1h_lumix_bs1h_full_frame_box_style.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1401565-REG/atomos_atomnjav01_ninja_v_5_4k.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1708265-REG/fujifilm_16756924_x_h2s_mirrorless_camera.html (with a Ninja V)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1500709-REG/z_cam_e2_s6_pl_e2_s6_super_35_6k.html (also in E Mount)

If you go for a mirrorless S35 mount camera, then getting the Fujinon MK lenses would be very tasty, and are priced quite low for how high quality they are (can be in E / X / MFT mount): 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1495860-REG/fujinon_mk18_55mm_and_mk50_135mm_t2_9.html 

 

[IronFilm]

3 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

And like I said, that price puts it within touching distance of a secondhand ARRI AMIRA. (or heck, a Panasonic Varicam LT for well under half the cost! https://www.ebay.com/itm/225662483059 I'd in a heartbeat go for the Varicam LT over any RED Dragon. Especially as you don't mind the weight or boot up time) 

A little more about the Panasonic Varicam LT for you to consider: 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2016/06/26/field-testing-the-panasonic-varicam-lt-a-hands-on-review-for-solo-shooters/ 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2016/06/03/panasonic-varicam-lt-do-i-like-you-an-owner-operators-perspective-from-miguel-toran/ 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2017/07/18/the-gods-of-fire-2k240fps-raw-recording-with-the-panasonic-varicam-lt-and-odyssey7q/ (you don't have to go with Convergent Design: https://www.newsshooter.com/2017/03/23/atomos-announce-a-free-cdng-raw-recording-firmware-update-for-shogun-inferno-flame-and-the-original-shogun/ ) 

https://*banned URL*/2017/05/review-panasonic-varicam-lt

https://www.provideocoalition.com/review-panasonic-varicam-lt-4k-super35mm-cine-camera/ 

https://www.provideocoalition.com/panasonic-varicam-lt-review-part-2/ 

https://*banned URL*/2016/07/panasonic-varicam-lt-review 

https://cinescopophilia.com/comparing-to-the-panasonic-varicam-lt-to-the-sony-fs7-camera/ 

Quote

Varicam LT owners will also be pleased to know that there is now a faster and more efficient software reboot that is completed with the use of the control panel rather than having to turn off the physical power switch of the camera. This improvement is certainly a welcome addition, especially to those shooters working in fast paced environments where you could end of missing crucial shots while you are waiting for the camera to re-boot. The slow start up time and constant re-booting of the camera after making settings changes was my biggest gripe with using the Varicam LT.

https://www.newsshooter.com/2017/06/20/53197/

Geoff Boyle is a very very highly respected cinematographer, here is what he has to say about his tests with the Panasonic Varicam LT:

https://www.newsshooter.com/2015/03/31/which-cine-camera-produces-the-best-image-geoff-boyle-has-surprises-in-store/

https://www.newsshooter.com/2016/03/09/bve-2016-cinematographer-geoff-boyle-says-arri-have-a-problem-likes-varicam-lt-image-uses-c300mkii-autofocus/ 

https://www.cinematography.net/Panasonic-VaricamLT-RAW-UHD-2017.html 

 

https://definitionmagazine.com/reviews/review-panasonic-varicam-lt/ 

 

If you want to go super lightweight (although I know weight doesn't matter much to you, but it might for other people reading this), you could consider "the baby Varicam LT", the Panasonic EVA1:

https://www.newsshooter.com/2017/06/03/panasonic-au-eva1-first-impressions/ 

They're sub $2K now:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/335107746560 

[Jedi Master]

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

It is a very minimal setup. 

And like I said, that price puts it within touching distance of a secondhand ARRI AMIRA. (or heck, a Panasonic Varicam LT for well under half the cost! https://www.ebay.com/itm/225662483059 I'd in a heartbeat go for the Varicam LT over any RED Dragon. Especially as you don't mind the weight or boot up time) 

I just don't see the appeal in buying an old RED (yes, it's brand new, but it's on its way out, mere seconds away from being discontinued). When you could for quite a bit less get the latest BMD / ZCam / Kinefinity / Fijifilm /  Panasonic. 

It's not the late 2000's / early 2010's, RED no longer holds any special significance in my eyes. 

Minimal, yes, but that's all I really need. I'm not shooting a feature film, so I don't need all the do-dads you see on cameras used for that task. Plus, adding unnecessary stuff increases the weight of the rig.

I have mixed feelings about the RED brand. Back when digital was in its infancy, well before ARRI and others got into the market, RED was a big name and I certainly aspired to own one, but the cost was too high back then. Now that the price of models like the Dragon-X and Komodo are in my grasp, I've been somewhat soured on the RED brand due to their price-gouging on Mini-Mags and other accessories, and their litigious behavior towards other companies using internal RAW recording. The reports of reliability issues is a worry too, since if I get the Dragon-X it's a model that RED has already discontinued and probably won't support much longer (assuming they still do, which might not be the case).

The Varicam sounds interesting, but it seems to use proprietary media (P2 cards) that are expensive ($395 for a 30GB card and $1840 for 512GB!) I'll give that one a pass.

The BMD URSA 12K is still high on my list of possibilities. Some of the things I don't like about it: reliability concerns, non-detachable screen, and use of CFast cards. Likes: BRAW, PL mount, its menus, and built-in ND filters. I'll definitely keep this one on my short list.

ZCam and Kinefinity look like great options with interesting technology. I especially like the media the Kinefinity uses. It's just a shell that holds a common NVMe M.2 SSD that's much cheaper than CFast or even CFexpress cards (4TB for $197). This is what RED Mini-Mags should have been. The thing holding me back here is the relative obscurity of the Chinese companies behind these brands. Will they still be in business a few years from now? Will they service their cameras in the mid to long term? Do repairs require shipping the camera to China? Who knows? 

Panasonic is definitely a possibility, either the S1H or its cubic brother the BS1H. I have fewer qualms about support from a well-established company like Panasonic, assuming, of course, that they don't decide to get out of the camera market altogether! 

I think Canon and Sony still sit on top of my list, with the C300 Mark III, the FX9, and the FX6 being contenders. Of these, I like the C300 best and it checks off more boxes than the Sony's.

Decisions, decisions...

[BTM_Pix]

39 minutes ago, Jedi Master said:

use of CFast cards

It has a USB port for direct recording to SSD or you can go the whole hog and get the URSA Mini Recorder which sits between the camera and the battery to enable you to define your own capacity using 2.5” SSD drives.

It’s not particularly cheap at around $400 but more cost effective than c-fast pretty quickly and a lot more robust than having an external drive hanging off the USB-C port.

 

[Jedi Master]

30 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

It has a USB port for direct recording to SSD or you can go the whole hog and get the URSA Mini Recorder which sits between the camera and the battery to enable you to define your own capacity using 2.5” SSD drives.

I forgot that it had that option as a possibility. Thanks for reminding me.

One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is build quality of BMD vs RED. I’ve seen a tear-down of an URSA and a tear-down of a RED (don’t remember which one, but it was one of the DSMC2s) and the difference in the thermal management systems was stark, with the RED implementation looking much better designed and robust compared to the BMD. As an engineer who has to pay close attention to thermal issues in my own work, I know how important good thermal management can be to reliability and longevity of electronics, which is what these cameras are all about.

[PannySVHS]

It's super nice and highly educating to read about all the different alterations of Red bodies and sensors. To read about Geoff Boyle is a very beautiful thing @IronFilm  He was one major inspirations to me with his hands on attitude and to the point avdices he shared on his forum and in various interviews and videotaped:) workshops. I remember his evaluation of the Varicam. I remember him very dearly as one of the most impactful and supportive public figures of the arts and craft of cinematography.

The original post of this thread has been narrowed down by og poster to be privately filming landscapes with 60min of footage per trip. A S1H will be perfect for that or a used S5.

But you can of course buy a Red package for the amount of money you wanna spent and share your findings with us and maybe some of your filmed and edited material. Looking forward to it. Or get an Amira, if your hobby is worth to you a dime or two. @Jedi Master

[Jedi Master]

8 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

The original post of this thread has been narrowed down by og poster to be privately filming landscapes with 60min of footage per trip. A S1H will be perfect for that or a used S5.

Like many hobby-related decisions, this comes down more to what I want rather than what I need. I’ll probably end up spending more money than necessary, but that’s what some hobbies are—money pits.

I could drive to work in an inexpensive economy car, but I prefer to drive something a little more sporty and luxurious, even though both will get me between point A and point B. Same thing with cameras for my hobby work. 😉

[IronFilm]

11 hours ago, Jedi Master said:

Minimal, yes, but that's all I really need. I'm not shooting a feature film, so I don't need all the do-dads you see on cameras used for that task. Plus, adding unnecessary stuff increases the weight of the rig.

Even for your purposes, lots of stuff there is handy to have, such as a Mattebox and filters. (especially if you're getting a RED, and not say an AMIRA or URSA Mini Pro etc) 

11 hours ago, Jedi Master said:

I have mixed feelings about the RED brand. Back when digital was in its infancy, well before ARRI and others got into the market, RED was a big name and I certainly aspired to own one, but the cost was too high back then. 

Eh, RED had a brief flash in the pan as an alternative to S35 film. 

But it wasn't for long, as it wasn't that many years later when the ARRI ALEXA Classic was released. 

(the ARRI D20 btw came out a few years before the RED ONE, and the ARRI D21 came out the same year as the RED ONE. With the ARRI ALEXA itself coming out just a couple of years later) 

From that point on, the RED never held a premium top spot. (if it even ever did... remember, the Sony PMW-F35 came out at the same time as the RED ONE! The RED ONE wasn't better, merely drastically more affordable)

 

11 hours ago, Jedi Master said:

The Varicam sounds interesting, but it seems to use proprietary media (P2 cards) that are expensive ($395 for a 30GB card and $1840 for 512GB!) I'll give that one a pass.

Make sure you buy a Varicam LT on eBay that comes with media, it's one of the benefits of buying secondhand. 

Or use an external recorder to record to cheap SSDs. You can get even more out of the camera that way anyway. 

Or get secondhand cards, they're really cheap now. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175229407783

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195107473555 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203903314352 

11 hours ago, Jedi Master said:

The BMD URSA 12K is still high on my list of possibilities. Some of the things I don't like about it: reliability concerns, non-detachable screen, and use of CFast cards. Likes: BRAW, PL mount, its menus, and built-in ND filters. I'll definitely keep this one on my short list.

Non-detachable screen is a non-issue. Most cameras are like this. 

CFast cards are cheap ($479 for 1TB: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1778914-REG/angelbird_1tb_av_pro_cf.html ), so I don't understand this objection. Plus, if you want to, you could record to SSDs: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1578182-REG/blackmagic_design_cineursashmssd2_ursa_mini_recorder.html 

Reliability concerns are a nonissue, it's cheap enough you'll be buying it brand new under warranty. And the difference for you in reliability between 0.1% vs 0.01% (which is a BIG DEAL for a professional, that they'll make a lot of noise about online complaining) is a non-issue for your purposes. (plus you're happy to consider the even less reliable RED, so I'm sure BMD will be just fine for you!) 

 

11 hours ago, Jedi Master said:

ZCam and Kinefinity look like great options with interesting technology. I especially like the media the Kinefinity uses. It's just a shell that holds a common NVMe M.2 SSD that's much cheaper than CFast or even CFexpress cards (4TB for $197). This is what RED Mini-Mags should have been. The thing holding me back here is the relative obscurity of the Chinese companies behind these brands. Will they still be in business a few years from now? Will they service their cameras in the mid to long term? Do repairs require shipping the camera to China? Who knows? 

Just buy it from a local major dealer such as B&H and that will take care of all your servicing worries within the warranty period. 

And if a camera is being serviced in the long term is irrelevant, the value of it will have dropped like a stone and it would be cheap to just buy another from eBay than to pay the labour and parts fees for your own old secondhand camera to be fixed. 

11 hours ago, Jedi Master said:

Panasonic is definitely a possibility, either the S1H or its cubic brother the BS1H. I have fewer qualms about support from a well-established company like Panasonic, assuming, of course, that they don't decide to get out of the camera market altogether! 

I think Canon and Sony still sit on top of my list, with the C300 Mark III, the FX9, and the FX6 being contenders. Of these, I like the C300 best and it checks off more boxes than the Sony's.

Decisions, decisions...

If you like the idea of a C300mk3, then get the C70, is the same sensor without all the extra I/O you won't be using on your types of shoots. 

[IronFilm]

  

11 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

It’s not particularly cheap at around $400 but more cost effective than c-fast pretty quickly and a lot more robust than having an external drive hanging off the USB-C port.

I though hated this setup when I would rent a BMD URSA Mini for shoots. As you lose valuable outputs to this. Making it a pain to give a feed to everyone who needs it (you/1stAC/director/etc). 

Was one of the factors why I decided to go with a Sony FS7 instead when I upgrade my camera from the PMW-F3. 

Irrelevant for OP though, they need somewhere between zero and one output. (hooking up a high quality SmallHD 7" or 10" monitor I think could really improve what they do)

10 hours ago, Jedi Master said:

One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is build quality of BMD vs RED. I’ve seen a tear-down of an URSA and a tear-down of a RED (don’t remember which one, but it was one of the DSMC2s) and the difference in the thermal management systems was stark, with the RED implementation looking much better designed and robust compared to the BMD. As an engineer who has to pay close attention to thermal issues in my own work, I know how important good thermal management can be to reliability and longevity of electronics, which is what these cameras are all about.

RED however has a history of many many many cameras overheating. They're infamous for this. I've experienced this myself. 

While BMD cameras don't, I can't remember the last time I read about a BMD camera overheating?? & I've never ever personally experienced this myself. 

Clearly one company is doing it all right, and the other company is doing it all wrong when it comes to thermal management. 

9 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

The original post of this thread has been narrowed down by og poster to be privately filming landscapes with 60min of footage per trip. A S1H will be perfect for that or a used S5.

 Yeah even the original Panasonic S5 would be perfectly great for their purposes, as they don't need the latest AF. 

Although, in their shoes I'd still lean towards one of:

1) keeping it simple and lightweight with a BMD 4K (MFT mount) or 6K  (L Mount) camera, they'll get the most out of these with the least effort (remember, OP works full time too. They can't spent 10,000 hours on this to squeeze the most out of a camera, like normal professionals would if buying say a RED or Kinefinity. It's a case of filming it then edit it over an evening or two, then do it again) 

2) going full on nuts and getting a secondhand ARRI ALEXA , as they have a generous budget and don't have to lug it that far 

 

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, Jedi Master said:

Like many hobby-related decisions, this comes down more to what I want rather than what I need. I’ll probably end up spending more money than necessary, but that’s what some hobbies are—money pits.

I could drive to work in an inexpensive economy car, but I prefer to drive something a little more sporty and luxurious, even though both will get me between point A and point B. Same thing with cameras for my hobby work. 😉

I think there is a strong argument here to buy one of the top of the line cameras from a previous generation. Rather than an arguably "better" camera for your purposes that just came out yesterday, such as the Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera 6K (with L Mount). 

You can enjoy the feeling of owning and using one of the most premium cameras that have ever been made, without suffering the rapid depreciation you'd experience with buying new a much more modern but low/mid range camera such as a C300mk3 or FX6 or URSA Mini 12K or Dragon-X.  (yeah, cameras such as the FX6 etc are indeed viewed as "low end" by many, but good enough that others can view them as "mid range". They kinda sit in the middle of low/mid range, straddling both categories)

As I think for you, a lot of it is about the experience of using and owning these.

Plus by getting a premium secondhand camera, it's wouldn't be that expensive at all for you to every couple of years to sell that camera and buy another one to experience the joy of owning and using. If you wanted to go through that regular cycle of using a range of them, rather than sticking with just one for the next 5 or maybe even 10yrs. (which could easily be the lifespan of a FX6 / C300mk3 / URSA Mini 12K / etc if you eek out the most from its lifespan)

Here are ones I reckon you should look at:

ARRI ALEXA Classic 

ARRI AMIRA

Sony PMW-F55

Sony PMW-F65

Panasonic Varicam LT (maybe Panasonic EVA1)

Canon C500mk1 (you'll want to pair it with an Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q), & maybe the Canon 1D C (if you like owning what was also a top of the line stills camera for its era as well. The Canon 1D C is very old now, but the image out of it is still liked by some)

Canon C700 (there is one listed right now for US$5K: https://www.ebay.com/itm/334993242877 )

 

[Jedi Master]

58 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

RED however has a history of many many many cameras overheating. They're infamous for this. I've experienced this myself. 

While BMD cameras don't, I can't remember the last time I read about a BMD camera overheating?? & I've never ever personally experienced this myself. 

Clearly one company is doing it all right, and the other company is doing it all wrong when it comes to thermal management. 

Interesting. What generation of RED cameras had overeating issues? The earliest ones, or some of the more recent ones?

[kye]

@Jedi Master How good are your colour grading abilities?

You might be better off buying the camera that's easiest to colour grade, or has the nicest out-of-the-box colour science rather than the camera with the most potential if you've got a team of dedicated pros in post-production.  

Sadly, I'm getting nicer colour out of my iPhone 12 than many are getting from their mega-dollar Sony cameras, simply because I have the colour grading skills of an enthusiastic amateur and they have the colour grading skills of a toddler.

You may not be aware of this (many aren't) but the footage from high-end cameras often looks pretty boring when just applying the manufacturers LUT and before the professional colourists have done their work.  I provided a few examples here: 

 

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, Jedi Master said:

Interesting. What generation of RED cameras had overeating issues? The earliest ones, or some of the more recent ones?

Ummm... all of them?? (except maybe RED Ranger???)

Although the more modern ones will do better. The RED ONE of course being the worst, I was on a shoot where they draped frozen bags over it. 

Like I said, RED is infamous for this. Hated by the sound department, as we'll go over and ask for them to turn their fans down, and they'll whine "no we can't, otherwise it will overheat". 

But in you case, you'll be using the more modern-ish DSCM2 body, and you don't need to care about the sound dept, you can just happily crank up that fan to go at max noise all day long. 

1 hour ago, kye said:

You might be better off buying the camera that's easiest to colour grade, or has the nicest out-of-the-box colour science rather than the camera with the most potential if you've got a team of dedicated pros in post-production.  

Yup, this is why I think there is a strong argument for a Blackmagic Design, or Panasonic Varicam LT (or even EVA1 / S5 / S1H / BS1H ) or Fujifilm X-H2S or old ARRI ALEXA rather than a Sony or RED

[BTM_Pix]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I though hated this setup when I would rent a BMD URSA Mini for shoots. As you lose valuable outputs to this. Making it a pain to give a feed to everyone who needs it (you/1stAC/director/etc). 

The original one did but the new versioner which you would use with the 12K uses the USB-C port only so no loss of connections.

I linked the pic of the original in error.

[IronFilm]

@Jedi Master, here is a range of opinions you can read about RED in one place:

https://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/future-of-red-cameras/ 

 

14 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

The original one did but the new versioner which you would use with the 12K uses the USB-C port only so no loss of connections.

Interesting, and this would work with the URSA Mini Pro 4.6K as well? (or only for the 12K? Googling seems to indicate only for the 12K?)

Hmmm... does make it vaguely more tempting to get an URSA Mini Pro, as they can be got for sub US$2K

But nah, I need to get out of the camera business, sell the Sony FS7 and get nothing. No replacement. 

And if I'm silly enough to get another camera, the Sony PMW-F5 is only US$1.5K now!! Bonkers cheap. (although most are more like US$2K+)

Or I go bonkers, splurging the $3.5K to $4K for a Panasonic Varicam LT.