Canon 5D Mark IV rumors

[wolf33d]

It sounds clear that the 5D Mark IV will have : 

24-30 (probably 28) mpx. Question is, will they finally be at Sony level for DR
7DM2 Autofocus 
Better ISO and FPS thanks to new processor and tweaks
4K video

Apparently it will have C300II video tech : EOS 5D Mark IV To Use EOS C300 Mark II Technology? [CR2]

It is not surprising to me. Canon was with the 5D2 the first good dslr for video and made a revolution. Since then, we saw nothing from them on the enthusiast market. They put all efforts on 10-20k $ market. 
Now that they are well installed in this market, with super nice cameras (for sure the C300II will be a HUGE success even with the price point) they can come back on DSLRs without to much risk to kill their own product. A C300II is not a 5D... a Pro using a C300II would not use a 5D body EVEN if it has the same "quality" of video in 4K. 
Also, the 5DIII is FAR inferior to Nikon D810, so it is time for them now to do a step. If they just improve AF, and 28mpx ... Who will buy the 5DIV ???? People bought 5DIII because the 5D2 AF was insanely shit. The 5DIII AF is very nice, no really need for the 7D2 one. Who cares about the 4 mpx ? Maybe they increase the DR ... But it would still be just a D750 then, for 1500$ more... 

On top of that they have 5DS that focus on resolution and not video (like sony A7R). 
The 5DIV will be a work horse, and will for sure have 4K, and will be the best DSLR up to date for video, unfortunately it will be heavy (DSLR...) no EVF (DSLR...) and expensive (Canon..) so it won't be mine. But it will be impressive. 

My 2 cents. 

 

 

[wolf33d]

Let's see! 

Don't forget this camera is not an A7, it will be out for 4 more years. Explain me how on earth 2 years from now the 5DIV would look like, between only 4K 1000$ DSLR around. 
A7S did not have 4K internal because of heat (easier in a 5D body...) next will have. in 2016-2017 all cameras coming (even D5400 like) will have 4K. 
Good luck to Canon if 5D4 does not have 4K. I bet it will have it, and I bet that video will be a top feature (like the rumor says, C300 tech). 

At least EITHER in a 5DIV body, either a 5DC (as they seem to split their line with 5DS...) but it does not matter. 

I might be wrong of course, but let's see in a couple of months  

[ntblowz]

I bet all this tech will be on 1DC MK II instead.  5D IV will be still first camera for photographers like 7D II. Why? Because they are Canon, and they can milk it as long as they can, hey it's business not a charity.

[johnnymossville]

The way I see it, in today's world with so many other options, there's very little reason to have a video shooting camera without an EVF and titling screen.  The 5DMIV probably won't have either, and probably won't have 4k as well. 

Canon needs a Super 35 sensor mirrorless camera with EVF and 4k.   This is the camera people need, and it won't step on their Full Frame DSLRs, but will kill them for 4k Video. 

[Liam]

Seriously confused about Canon. Doubt the 5DIV will have 4k. I have a hunch sales of the XC10 will give "proof" that the section amateur-low-budget-filmmakers can't really handle 4k and don't even really want it... when in actuality there are of course other reasons not to want that camera (though maybe broadcasters will love it). Similar to how sales of the eos m "proved" that we don't like mirrorless......

But really i don't think Panasonic is gonna come out with much without a 4k option ever again. If 4k is really going to be the new 1080p, and you can't get a phone or compact without it, jump on that right away. Who's buying a 720p camera right now? Even point and shooters? they should already be at 4k mirrorless.

And they can even severely cripple it, I guess, like a 5D style with a 4k 1:1 crop of the sensor to be smaller than apsc, no canon log, and sell it for $5000, since they're so concerned about their c line. They'd still get sales. It's weird that even that would be a pipe dream. That would be a step up for Canon and still not great.

[lafilm]

May have to wait and see what happens with Canon's 1DX and 1D C dslr's before this happens.

Would be nice to bring the powerhouse features of the (now $8,000) 1D C to a $3,500 Mark IV. 

[richg101]

Their Cinema EOS range has pretty much killed all hope of the 5dmk4 being anything more than a bombproof stills camera with a below par video function.  Unless ML get hold of it before launch and remove all the crippling features canon include in the firmware.  

[wolf33d]

So it sounds guys, that you will ALL be wrong, and that I will be right  

Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Talk [CR1]

Only selling points of 5D4 will be better ISO/DR for photo (AF is already excellent on 5DIII, mpx count wont evolve much, ergonomics as well..) And for video it will be 4K ,and the Dual focus system found on the 70D. 

Now imagine a hacked 5DIV, with RAW 4K, best world AF for video (completely usable), all Canon lenses native, Canon colors ..... Well not bad no ? 

It will be priced 3500-4000 though..

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

I am not predicting, I am thinking what must Canon do to compete with the D810 and the new A7R MKII. 

On the photography front, it will need a high megapixel count, a sweet middle ground between 50 and 20, a number that will make it able to be used as sports camera, and a number that would make it able to be a lowlight leader (A7s league, 5D III is already not far) 

-28mps is reasonable and probably right

They will have things that puts it above the a7r in areas

-All magnesium alloy body with 7DII weather sealing 

-Large intelligent optical viewfinder and an accurate 65point AF system 

-Burst mode of 8fps at a long burst, so it could be used for sports. 

-Best lowlight performance available is Canon style. 

-The small but the important additions of the 7D like the anti flicker system for indoor sports, 

That would make the ultimate DSLR for professional everything, from portrature, sports, joirnalism, lowlight, landscape, everything 

Video: the photography part is almost sure but this part is only what they ''shoukd' do to compete

What it will have over the A7RII

-Dual pixel AF

-Larger native lens selection with IS comparable to IBIS or slightly better 

-The colour science people seem to go on about 

-7DII features like, native 24p mode. 

-Clean HDMI out with Audio and timecode

Not enough, so to compete they must put 

-Fullframe 4K video, or at least Perfect C100 1080p resolution 

-A higher end codec than XAVC like their new XF-AVC if they went 4K 

-Canon Log Gamma 

If they meet this list they will have a dominant product, it will be an A7RII but a DSLR style just like it's always been with the A7 vs 5DIII, 5D having a more complete rugged package with the above advantages with the A7 have the EVF and peaking/zebras advantages plus lens adapatability. 

Or they could just throw away the low-budget video arena and make a slightly sharper 1080p video than 5D III with no other additions just as an extra tool for photographers. Would be a shame, 

[wolf33d]

Agreed, but for photo you forgot the Dynamic Range. Landscape photographers will move away if it is still this same ridiculous DR. 

There is talk about 15 stops DR for the 5D4 though ...

 

[Jimmy]

To be honest, that "ridiculous DR" has taken some beautiful landscape photography. Landscape photographers don't tend to shoot in the midday sun, as no matter how much range you have, it will still look ugly and harsh. No one will complain is they up it, but I don't see landscape photographers crying hard about it, if they don't. It's been like this for years now.

[Nikkor]

Thats why nobody uses hdr for landscapes. Sunsets (landscape clichee) are low DR situations, you dont need more than 10 stops for that.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Agreed, but for photo you forgot the Dynamic Range. Landscape photographers will move away if it is still this same ridiculous DR. 

There is talk about 15 stops DR for the 5D4 though ...

 

​I don't think Canon will address this in the 5D IV. It'll be similar to 7D II and​ 5DsR and yes it will be a complaining point from HDR photographers. 

However, the 5DsR actually shows very high DR, and not far from the D810 in fact pretty similar. When you boost d810 shadows you find it cleaner, but when you apply NR to the pushed to the same level 5Ds, they show similar resolution and noise and colour quality. I think Nikon is introducing heavy shadow DR to their raw files which smears a bit of data but gives higher DR perception (but it's still at sensor level a bit better than Canon I believe even if they didn't add NR)

Watch this real-world comparison (sorry I find the guy a bit annoying on-screen too but useful information )

 

[wolf33d]

Just thought about something. 

CanonRumors says in his last article that 5D IV will not have for sure 4K video, but that 1DXII will. 
I mean, 1080p is 5DII old, so 2008 old for Canon 5D line. If 5DIV is released in 2016 (and it will), 5DIII lasted for 4 years. 

So let's say 5DIV is a 2016-2020 camera. Do you seriously imagine that in 2020, the Canon 5DIV has 1080p video, same technology as 12 years old 5DII? That seems so ridiculous and impossible for a flashgip product. Well.... I can't wait to see the answer on this one, and I can say one thing, if 5D4 has no 4K I won't ever buy a Canon product my whole life just as a respect to myself, not giving money to a company that shits on us as much as this. 
So let's see  

 

[Andrew Reid]

You're right, zero reason for the 5D IV not to have 4K.

I have a feeling they still would prefer us to buy a Cinema EOS camera though.

Question is... have the pros who Canon have asked what they want in the 5D IV called for 4K strongly enough?

I imagine they might have.

[squig]

I get the 4k obsession, but film is screened at 2k, and TV at 1080p. An honest 1000 lines of resolution is ample for film and broadcast delivery. The Alexa still rules because 4k isn't a deciding factor for most productions. If the 5D IV has another 2 stops of dynamic range, 1 or 2 stops better sensitivity, lower rolling shutter, and is Magic Lantern hackable, it could be a beast. 4k internally downsampled to 1080p would be very nice. I expect it will have 4k because Canon has to match Sony and Panasonic to stay in the game, but it wouldn't surprise me if it only does 1080p.

[tugela]

Seriously confused about Canon. Doubt the 5DIV will have 4k. I have a hunch sales of the XC10 will give "proof" that the section amateur-low-budget-filmmakers can't really handle 4k and don't even really want it... when in actuality there are of course other reasons not to want that camera (though maybe broadcasters will love it). Similar to how sales of the eos m "proved" that we don't like mirrorless......

But really i don't think Panasonic is gonna come out with much without a 4k option ever again. If 4k is really going to be the new 1080p, and you can't get a phone or compact without it, jump on that right away. Who's buying a 720p camera right now? Even point and shooters? they should already be at 4k mirrorless.

And they can even severely cripple it, I guess, like a 5D style with a 4k 1:1 crop of the sensor to be smaller than apsc, no canon log, and sell it for $5000, since they're so concerned about their c line. They'd still get sales. It's weird that even that would be a pipe dream. That would be a step up for Canon and still not great.

Whether the 5D4 has 4K or not depends on what processors it has inside. If it has Digic 6 processors, it will be HD video, if it has Digic 7 processors it will be 4K. Most likely it will not have the same quality as a C300M2 however, since the Digic 7 will not have the same video optimizations that the DV5 has. In other words it will be a step down from the XC10, probably with line skipping and all that entails. I believe that the 5D4 will have 4K video, but it will not be competitive with 4K from flagship hybrids made by the MILC companies.

The issues for Canon I think are two fold. Firstly (IMO) the processors they have available to them are more primitive than those in Panasonic/Sony/Samsung hybrids (that is why they have 2-3 processors in their high end cameras, while the others have only one). Secondly, I suspect that all of the manufacturers have cross licensing deals going on so as to avoid IP infringement lawsuits. Those sorts of deals typically have all sorts of conditions attached in order to protect the respective party's niches. So, Canon might be able to use most of the full extent of technology in their DSLRs, but not be able to use the same stuff in their EOS-M line, which would explain why those cameras so backward from a tech point of view. They may also be limited with respect to the software implementations of video functions as well, again for IP reasons. That would explain why Magic Lantern can do things that seem obvious things to do, but Canon themselves don't. 

All those things combined make their flagship products good stills cameras but mediocre video cameras.

[wolf33d]

Whether the 5D4 has 4K or not depends on what processors it has inside. If it has Digic 6 processors, it will be HD video, if it has Digic 7 processors it will be 4K. Most likely it will not have the same quality as a C300M2 however, since the Digic 7 will not have the same video optimizations that the DV5 has. 

Lol that is why the 1DC can do 4K with Digic 5.......

 

A lot of people forget about the origins of what was made and keep on trying nonstop to disclose this idea that a human being needs special equipment to make great things, instead of being told that there are tools. I can make a film with a cell phone

Lol you know what? You remind my a part of Philip Bloom blog, let me quote it:
"I don’t subscribe to the idea of using the shittiest camera you have because you are an artist and you can make anything shine. Nonsense. Use the best camera you have access to. The camera is NOT the most important thing. You and your ideas are. But don’t be a camera martyr and say “my work is what is important hence, not the camera, I shall film this on my iPad!” Don’t be silly now!!"

But sure, there will always be people like you, that will find excuses to Canon for not innovating and throw 4K$ at their bulshit.
I am not speaking about art here. I am not debating about can you do a movie with a phone. I know an iPhone in good hands will make a better movie than a lambda guy with an Epic Dragon. THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION. 
I am speaking about technology, marketing, things like this. From a technology viewpoint, it is not acceptable to release a flashgip camera like a 5D for the years to come without 4K. 
The same way it would be unacceptable to release it with 11.8 stop of DR for stills when competition is >14stops for years now. If you disagree with that, and if there are more people like you on this planet, then Canon will never change this habit. Because there will always be some people ready to buy a Canon because there is a Canon name on it. 
And don't serve me the Canon is for pro because it is reliable and they only serve technology when it is working, Sony serves non reliable geek product blablabla. Nikon proves since years that having 14 stops of DR AND a Pro and reliable body can cohabit together without too much troubles.......... 

 

 

[Jimmy]

The same way it would be unacceptable to release it with 11.8 stop of DR for stills when competition is >14stops for years now.

Does this not make you ask yourself some questions about why they are still top of the stills game?

Is it because their DR holds well over the entire ISO range, where the Sony (Nikon) chips have a great native DR, then crash and burn away from that native ISO.

I'm no tech head.... But it seems Canon are doing something right, with stills at least.

[BrorSvensson]

Does this not make you ask yourself some questions about why they are still top of the stills game?

Is it because their DR holds well over the entire ISO range, where the Sony (Nikon) chips have a great native DR, then crash and burn away from that native ISO.

I'm no tech head.... But it seems Canon are doing something right, with stills at least.

the canon 5ds has 9.1 stops of DR at iso 4500

the Sony A7rii has 10.1 stops of dr at 4500.

Yes its true that the canon DR do not drop as fast as sony but with the sony starting at 14 stops vs the canon at 12 still gives the lead to sony.