Canon 5D Mark IV rumors

[Andrew Reid]

80% was shot on 5Dmk3 and the rest which was slow mos on fs700.

Or maybe they haven't a clue!

[jagnje]

or maybe they make a living out of it.

[wolf33d]

Andrew. 
It has clearly been stated that 1DXII will be announced before 5DIV, and that 1DXII will be announced begining of 2016. 

So I expect 5DIV sometimes in 2016 but not sooner. 

Reason for more than 3 years: they know if they don't keep up with Sony DR they are dead because people will either buy D810/850 /  D750-760, either A7R II. 
People are all waiting Canon move. They can't miss it. 4K is the same problem event though without 4K the 5DIV will still be a success for stills guy (if it has 14DR, and usual iso, fps, AF improvment). 

1DXII will have 4K for sure apparently. I just don't want a 8k body and this big. 

[bamigoreng]

 

 

or maybe they make a living out of it.

Heh, zadetek v polno. 

[tugela]

The new Leica camera might help push Canon towards good 4K in DSLR.... I don't know many pro still shooters that would trade a Canon for a Sony, but I know plenty that would trade for a Leica. If the still shooters using the new Leica start pulling stills from the 4K video, then the industry will change again... I don't think there has yet been a bone fide camera where pro still shooters are using the video mode as a still tool (RED is too bulky and flawed for 99%).... Maybe the Leica is that camera to bring the lightbulb moment and start things off.

Canon react when threatened... I don't think they feel hugely threatened by Sony, in the still market.

That Leica isn't going to threaten anything other than the doorstop industry.

Its still the third most popular camera (not dslr, camera) at B&H so not really overdue imo.

I think Canon are really smart. While the others have sunk money into countless models and features they have just kept selling the same old camera at a premium price.

Genius.

Not really. By allowing the line to stagnate they have opened the door to competition. Shortsighted is a more accurate description.

Or maybe they haven't a clue!

More likely because that is the equipment they have and see no reason to buy new stuff every year as technology evolves.

I think professionals see cameras as tools, and for them familiarity is very important. It allows them to record an image without spending a lot of time figuring out equipment specific nuances because they already know them like the back of their hand.

Keeping up with the latest technology is more the realm of enthusiasts. Those are the people who have the time to fiddle around because for them time is not money.

I don't really see the choices pros make as being indicative of inherent quality, because the things that are important to them being able to do their job may have nothing to do with that. Whenever I see someone coming along and saying that oh the pros do this therefore we should too, what I see is an idiot. Just my personal opinion of course

[sanveer]

Or maybe they haven't a clue!

Most DoPs, especially the oldies are Completely Unaware of the World Outside of Arri and the 5D. They are like tech relics, borderline dinosaurs. One of the nutjobs was arguing about why the Canon C300 Mark ii has far more dynamic range than the Alexa, and why everyone's tests are flawed (without doing any of his own tests).

In India too a lot of DoPs, even the younger ones, haven't heard of a DSLR (Mirrorless). They are stuck on 5Ds, and completely unaware about the whole Mirrorless Movement. They don't know Log Profile are or even the various codecs that various cameras shoot in.

Canon's supply chain is still the best in the world is still miles ahead of everyone else. Also, with their NatGeo and so many other associations, they ensure that the oldies still feel that it's a solely Canon world, and almost everyone else does not matter.

It's actually similar to what Apple does. While Samsung makes (arguably), better cameras per $ (as well as supplying key components to Apple for their Phones), but because Apple has so many famous photographers and videographers endorsing their products, and because people who cannot afford apple products (and will buy them on loans to find a purpose to live) will sit outside apple stores for days to pick up one, Apple is still a bigger brand than Samsung. 

In many ways that's the same story with Canon. Regardless of the Quality that Panasonic and Sony offer, the Dinosaurs of Photography and Filmmaking won't be able to conceive of a brand outside Canon (not even Nikon, in many cases).

 

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

There's something about Canon sensors that I don't understand. 

The sensor respond great to in-camera gain pushing. A 2011 5DIII shows as good or better performance at 800, 1600, 6400, 12800 ISO as a brand new 2015 stills sensor. Only when the gain is pushed in-camera it's great. But once the image is taken, pushing gain in post production does not create the same effect as what happens in-camera. It should, raw should have that trait, being able to change ISO in post, you have all the sensor data. 

But on Canons, it's not. It'a drastically different. So pushing the shadows' ISO in post to create a HDR photo looks worse than doing the same with a Sony/Nikom camera, where pushing the shadows' ISO in post is similar to pushing it in-camera. 

Since when we shoot at 6400 with a Canon we get a brightened up image with better or at least similar quality to a Sony/Nikon, then if Canon were to create a post-production tool that recreates what the in-camera gain push does but just to the shadows, it would have the same or better DR as Sonys/Nikons. Or if they applied in-camera gain to the shadow areas before final delivery to the Card rather than applied it to the entire image. 

There's something missing about the chain we don't know other than ''a bad and a good sensor''. It has to do with the way Raw data is processed, and the way analog/digital gain is applied by each manufacturer. Something is different and something is missing there. 

Canon C500 shooting raw also has extremely different images at 320 ISO than 6400 ISO, gain is applied on the sensor level and can't be done in post, so is the case with the C300II and 5D and 1DX/C and all their sensors/processors.

[Nikkor]

That's because canon sensors have problems with readout noise. A perfect sensor without readout noise wouldn't have different iso values, just base iso and adjusting in post (or different base isos if it were possible to change that)

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Could you elaborate more? I have no clue what readout noise means, or why a perfect sensor wouldn't have different gain values while a worse sensor would have different gain values. What's the reason behind that? 

Why can Canon sensors be pushed internally with gain and deliver better/the same IQ as Sony/Nikon sensors but can't be pushed after writing to the card? 

What is that trick that happens in-camera that can't be applied to the shadows in post? (which would give Canon DSLRs the same DR quality of the Sonys/Nikons)

[Nikkor]

I was writing the explanation, but this article is better http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/iso/

The problem is with the A/D converters, I think sony has ones that are more effective.

[hmcindie]

Or maybe they haven't a clue!

I've shot with the FS700 and 5d mark III on the same shoot. Preferred the 5d image. And that was the shitty h264!

Most DoPs, especially the oldies are Completely Unaware of the World Outside of Arri and the 5D.

Doesn't work like that. Joseph Kahn (who shoots beautiful stuff) said on a twitter post something on the lines of "FS700 sucks". And Joseph has done some great work on the 5d (mostly with way more expensive cameras though). 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5BsvBR14xM&hd=1

That's shot with the 5d iii. H264. You can't do that look with an FS700. So these guys don't know what they're doing? Ok...

This he shot with the 5d mark 2. So moire galore.

[Oliver Daniel]

The Canon's are going nowhere anytime soon. Some of the stuff you hear about Canon on this forum is far from reality.

I wrapped a shoot yesterday as part of a big team of camera operators, all of which were hired for a project for a big major football team and their sponsor. We prepped all the gear - and there were 5 C300's, 6 5D Mk. III's and a ton of EF lenses. (there were also 20 GoPro's). I setup a bunch of C300's but was tasked to operate a 5D Mk. III. Every single camera operator knew exactly what to do with these cameras, no questions asked. 

A few of us brought our own cameras as backups. The A7S and RX10 II popped up, but nobody would use them because they were like some kind of foreign objects. When I said to someone I could operate the Sony's, one of the camera assistants looked at me like I was insane. 

Because of the Canon's, the process was smooth and reliable as everyone knew the brand and know they work well. Canon have a major presence in big commercial work. People who say they are "toast" because of Sony's spec sheet monster products don't know what they are talking about. Canon know this, and if they didn't, we'd be seeing 4k and 120fps in all their DSLR's very, very soon. (won't happen). 

In credit to Sony - there was an FS7 on set capturing behind the scenes footage. It was the most talked about gadget on set. They've done a great job of that camera.

 

[jagnje]

exactly.

If canon does not release a new 5d mk. whatever in 2 years, we will be seeing 5d mk.IIIs on sets for the next two years. They work, get the job done, everyone knows how to work with them...as simple as that. It is called an industry standard.

You have fender and gibson guitars, there are thousands of guitars out there that do the same thing and tons of other things as well...guess what are the most used guitars on the planet.

 

 

[gelaxstudio]

exactly.

If canon does not release a new 5d mk. whatever in 2 years, we will be seeing 5d mk.IIIs on sets for the next two years. They work, get the job done, everyone knows how to work with them...as simple as that. It is called an industry standard.

Yeah，don't know why canon users complainting about no 4K or supersampling 

5DIII（5DII as well ）without supersamp、4K、even FHD 60P，but still fit industry standard for 7 years with line-skipping IQ ，so it may still holding up for the next 10 years or more，long live 5D！lol 

[jagnje]

Jesus, what is wrong with you people? Why are you so hung up on specs??? Did you see the video on the previous page? You think that a viewer will go: oh, that was made with a shitty 2k camera?!? No, it looks fine, great even. 

If someone likes to work with a 5d and the client likes is...why the hell would you go complaining about it?  it fits the job.

There are skateboard companies that film their videos today on old sony sd camcorders, with a fisheye on it. It's in 4/3 format even. Nobody complains...it fits the asthetic. For them it is how skateboard videos are supposed to look.