kye Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 Insta360 just posted a teaser for a new action camera.. The only things I can tell are that it has a flip-up selfie screen: It has a Leica lens: ....and that they'll cost a billion dollars each because they appear to be manufacturing them in a particle accelerator. I'm also guessing it has AI in it, because of the red letters in the thumbnail, but then again, everything has AI in it these days, so.... Emanuel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 Seems a new Insta360 RS modular camera... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 The image of the camera post-collision doesn't look modular - at least not like their current stuff. Among other things, it lacks the bottom battery and any sort of seam in-between the brain and the lens (plus it has a door, probably for the charger, in more of a GoPro-type location) kye 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Announced - as implied by the video, it's more of a traditional GoPro form factor. Comes in Ace Pro (1/1.3" sensor 8K Leica lens) and Ace (1/2" sensor 6K non-Leica lens) variants. The Pro hoots up to 8k24 in 16:9 or 2.35:1 - in 4k mode, supports "clarity" which is basically the insta360 implementation of Sony's clear image zoom. Frame rates in 4K mode and below are ho-hum (4kp120 and 1080p240 supported). Open gate is limited to 4K. It also has a "pure video" mode which does some sort of ML-based denoising early in the pipeline to allow better stabilization/footage at night. In fact, it has a bunch of ML features (all branded as "AI"). The Pro has USB-PD charging and a slightly smaller battery which they say will take it to 80% in only about 20 minutes. The non-pro has only standard 5V USB charging and is likely much slower. If the rest is like previous Insta360 cameras, their software will be a lot of the draw - it'll be interesting to see how good their software is at detecting the interesting moments in hours of video. From the One R and my 360 cameras, I think Insta360 Studio is the best action camera software around. https://www.insta360.com/product/insta360-ace-pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 170Mbps... not terrible. Let's see what the implementation is like, especially the sharpening, NR, and auto-awesome AI. I like the idea there's two of them, with the "Pro" one having a larger sensor and more resolution etc. I feel like most action products are the generic model and somehow they never release the higher up models. eatstoomuchjam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 It's here and is a no-brainer: Another big plus: had recently the need for technical support experience locally (in Europe), no complaints at all, I firmly recommend itl :- ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 @kye Indeed! Up there, above, the one to take... ; ) Here's more on topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Looks interesting, curious to see the 8k 24fps quality once is available, the 2x zoom sensor crop seems kind of ok so I expect the 8k to be quite good for this type of camera. Also curios to see how the "AI" motion blur works compared to do it manually in Resolve. From the first videos around low light it is still not great but much better than any other action cam on the market. A pity that it seems to be missing 10bit log and user replaceable lens. I wish they would also offer an add-on even wider lens for POV like the MAX MOD 2, very useful for MTB, Ski and Snowboarding. 8k at 25fps would have been nice too as it is only 1 fps more so probably doable, maybe with firmware?. As @eatstoomuchjam mentions insta360 studio and I also add the iOS App are the best from any action cam manufacturer and they continue to improve them. eatstoomuchjam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 The image quality side-by-sides aren't even close.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 6 hours ago, gt3rs said: Looks interesting, curious to see the 8k 24fps quality once is available, the 2x zoom sensor crop seems kind of ok so I expect the 8k to be quite good for this type of camera. Also curios to see how the "AI" motion blur works compared to do it manually in Resolve. From the first videos around low light it is still not great but much better than any other action cam on the market. A pity that it seems to be missing 10bit log and user replaceable lens. I wish they would also offer an add-on even wider lens for POV like the MAX MOD 2, very useful for MTB, Ski and Snowboarding. 8k at 25fps would have been nice too as it is only 1 fps more so probably doable, maybe with firmware?. As @eatstoomuchjam mentions insta360 studio and I also add the iOS App are the best from any action cam manufacturer and they continue to improve them. Looks like available from scratch... gt3rs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 The GoPro looks bad in comparison in low light, and not as impressive in most other scenarios. https://youtube.com/watch?v=BJx84Or3Rao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Emanuel said: Looks like available from scratch... I didn't catch that the videos are only 8-bit (he mentioned it partway through). That's a real bummer. Also, the fake motion blur that was shown near the end looks bad. Emanuel and FHDcrew 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted November 22, 2023 Author Share Posted November 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said: I didn't catch that the videos are only 8-bit (he mentioned it partway through). That's a real bummer. Also, the fake motion blur that was shown near the end looks bad. What do you mean? It looks flawless to me!!! 😂😂😂 Doing it in post in Resolve looks like it might be a mature enough solution now, but I can't imagine that devices will be good enough to do it real-time for quite a few years. I started a separate thread about this semi-recently: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/78618-motion-blur-in-post-looks-like-it-might-be-feasible-now/ eatstoomuchjam and gt3rs 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 41 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said: I didn't catch that the videos are only 8-bit (he mentioned it partway through). That's a real bummer. Also, the fake motion blur that was shown near the end looks bad. Agreed : ) Other than that, puts the blame on the competition left. Osmo Pocket 3 is still my fav one for this segment anyway... I think I won't resist and buy both of them very likely :- ) Even though, 8-bit still fills the cup in a myriad of situations, that's for sure, I wonder if they won't be able on further 10-bit add-ons via firmware update? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted November 22, 2023 Author Share Posted November 22, 2023 1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said: I didn't catch that the videos are only 8-bit (he mentioned it partway through). That's a real bummer. Also, the fake motion blur that was shown near the end looks bad. I'm actually not that fussed by 8-bit video anymore, assuming you know how to use colour management in your grades. If you are shooting 8-bit in a 709 profile you can transform from rec709 to a decent working space, grade in there, then convert back to 709. Assuming the 709 profile is relatively neutral, this gives almost perfect ability to make significant exposure / WB changes in post, and by grading in a decent working space (RCM, ACES) all the grading tools work the same as with any other footage. The fact you're going from 8-bit 709 capture to 8-bit 709 delivery means that the bit-depth is mostly kept in the same place and therefore doesn't get stretched too much. The challenge is when you're capturing 8-bit in a LOG space, or a very flat space. This is what I faced when recording my XC10 in 4K 300Mbps 8-bit in C-Log. I have spoken in great detail about this in another thread. This was a real challenge and forced me to explore and learn proper texture management. Texture management isn't spoken about much online, but it includes things like NR (temporal, spatial), glow effects, halation effects, sharpening / un-sharpening, grain, etc. I found with the low-contrast 8-bit C-Log shots from the XC10, that by the time I applied very modest amounts of temporal NR, spatial NR, glow, and un-sharpening, that not only was I left with a far more organic and pleasing image, but the noise was mostly gone. It's easy for uninformed folks to look at 8-bit LOG images like the XC10 and think they're vastly inferior to cameras where NR isn't required, but this isn't true - the real high-end cinema cameras are noisy as hell in comparison to even the current mid-range offerings, and professional colourists are expected to know about NR. A recent post in a professional colour grading group I am in was about NeatVideo and the post mentioned that NR was essential on almost every professional colour grading job. I'd almost go so far as to say that if you can't get a half-decent image from 8-bit LOG footage then you couldn't grade high-end cinema camera footage either. There are limits though, and things like green/magenta macro-blocking in the shadows were evident on shots where I had under-exposed significantly, but on cameras that have a larger sensor than the 1" XC10 sensor, and if exposed properly, these things are far less likely to be real issues. Emanuel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted November 22, 2023 Author Share Posted November 22, 2023 Additionally, it's easy to look at residual noise on the timeline and turn up our noses, but by the time you have exported the video from your NLE, then it's been uploaded to the streaming platform, then they have done goodness-knows-what to it before recompressing it to razor-thin bitrates, much of what we were seeing on the timeline is gone. The "what is acceptable and what is visible" discussion needs to be shifted to what is visible in the final stream. Anything visible upstream that isn't visible to the viewer is a distraction IMHO. Emanuel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 9 hours ago, kye said: What do you mean? It looks flawless to me!!! 😂😂😂 Doing it in post in Resolve looks like it might be a mature enough solution now, but I can't imagine that devices will be good enough to do it real-time for quite a few years. I started a separate thread about this semi-recently: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/78618-motion-blur-in-post-looks-like-it-might-be-feasible-now/ Ok I'm convinced, in camera AI motion blur not usable... already in Resolve is a bit of a hit and miss but this example is really not good at all. kye 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted November 22, 2023 Author Share Posted November 22, 2023 1 hour ago, gt3rs said: Ok I'm convinced, in camera AI motion blur not usable... already in Resolve is a bit of a hit and miss but this example is really not good at all. Yeah. One distinct advantage of doing this stuff in post is that you can tweak and tune it shot-to-shot if required, and if the results are ok but not great you can often lower the strength so it's not so visible, although there is no guarantee that you will be able to get an acceptable result, so if you have to rely on it you're still better off doing it manually / properly in-camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 15 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said: I didn't catch that the videos are only 8-bit (he mentioned it partway through). That's a real bummer. I'm guessing that they would probably bring 10-bit along with the log profile by way of a firmware update. kye 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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