Thoughts on Nikon Z9/Z8 vs. Canon R3/R5(c)?

[MrSMW]

11 hours ago, The Dancing Babamef said:

I shot a bunch of footage in the summer and the files were wonderful. I haven't tried shooting in low light nor in grey cloudy weather because if the weather is like that then I don't even bother to take the camera out. Every picture tends to look flat and ugly. 

Tell me about it.

I absolutely hate Nov-March because it is nearly impossible to practice shoot anything that I do, especially if wanting to test anything new.

It’s almost impossible to ‘practice shoot’ weddings anyway for a variety of reasons.

Even the odd sunny Winter day isn’t the same because it’s a different quality and angle of light plus the background colours are all different plus people’s skin tones are not the same.

Always been a problem…

Unless I swap hemispheres every solstice…

[Ty Harper]

Happy R5C/R5 owner/user/hobbyist here.

I love the R5C's form factor and having the C-line video menu, along with the ridiculous amount of pro features squeezed into that dslr-styled body. I also love being able to build it out or barebones it depending on what I'm shooting. But then audio-wise the Zoom F3 allowed me to put down my bulky Zoom F4 and now I have a 2 camera run n gun setup that all fits in a Nanuk 935/Pelican 1550. 

And now that the battery power issue has been addressed with the R5C (I get over a couple hours easy with the grip) - and the overheating issue has been addressed with the R5, I've got two capable cams that are future proofed with 8K (yes, I have the Ninja V+ paired with the R5). 

Finally, the RF-EF adapter means you really don't need to go to the RF lenses. There are so many amazingly priced used EF-L lenses at your disposal. But also the VND drop-in filter is fantastic imo and never leaves my camera bodies!

Coming from using C300/C100s professionally as a producer - and then owning the 5D MKII/III, 1DC as a hobbyist, I honestly feel like the R5C is my final destination cam purchase. The only thing I might do is sell the R5/Ninja V+ and pick up a second R5C body... maaaybe get a C70 when the prices get to the $2K USD range, just so I have an all-in-one C100 type cam.

Either way good luck with whatever you purchase!

 

[kye]

15 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Unless I swap hemispheres every solstice…

I accidentally skipped winter one year, with a couple of overseas trips in the northern hemisphere happening to be over the coldest part of the year.  I didn't realise it until the following winter what I was like "Gee, it's getting cold/wet now...  it hadn't been like this since....  hang on a second!!"

If I won lotto, I'd do that every year 🙂 

[Jedi Master]

3 hours ago, kye said:

If I won lotto, I'd do that every year

Me too, but I’d do it the opposite way you would. I like autumn and winter more than spring and summer. 😉

[Django]

Being in a similar dilemma but having actually used both R5/R5C & Z8 here are my thoughts.

R5 pros: Good battery life, IBIS, AF, 8K30p, RAW

cons: h26x, low DR, sub-sampled 4K60p

R5C pros: 8K60p, XF-AVC, dual base ISO, Cine line features (LUT support, assist tools etc), active cooling.

R5C cons: poor battery life (better in latest firmware but still not great), no IBIS

Z8 pros: 8K60p, compressed RAW, ProRes, stacked sensor, lockable IBIS. 2X zoom/crop modes.

Z8 cons: aside from some AF issues nothing major! 

Right now as far as specs, the Z8 is in my opinion the clear winner. Side by side, the IQ on the Nikon is substantially cleaner (less noise) and has superior DR. With ProRes, IBIS and a fast stacked sensor its just a really powerful all-rounder. My only gripe with it is the AF isn't as sticky than Canons and with portrait stills it often misses the eye if you shoot wide open with fast glass.

Color wise, Nikon is more neutral and less contrasty. This is good if you like to grade/paint. Canon is better if you want SOOC results and the skin tones are the best in the game. C-log is more filmic than other logs including N-log but C-log3 on the R5/R5C has less DR than N-log. 

Lens/system wise is where things get specific and personal. Different rendering & price points with native lenses.

But where Z-mount wins is that you can adapt pretty much any glass to it, including EF. RF is a lot more closed so if you wanna adapt, Nikon is the way to go. RF has some fantastic unique lenses but they are so expensive!

FWIW I've been shooting Canon since the 5D mark 1. C100/C200. EOS R, R6. I'm a Canon guy.

I'm seriously considering switching to Nikon after trying out the Z8. The 8K/4K IQ is simply stunning and with ProRes it cuts like butter on my intel iMac Pro. I could adapt all my current lenses: EF, E-mount, Leica M and Nikkor AI-S. And the new S line lenses are pretty great too. 

Either way you can't really go wrong, I got amazing results out of the R5/R5C. You just have to be more careful with exposure because of the limited DR and they aren't low-light champs either. Ergonomics and menus are also better with Canon, its a more intuitive shooting experience. And you can get away with minimum tweaking in post, slap a LUT and you're good if you're on fast turnover.

 

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, Django said:

(...)

Z8 cons: aside from some AF issues nothing major! 

(...)

 

I loved your impressions on it, even though a bit different from my research, something I am puzzled though:

AF looks like the opposite but anyway...

What about overheating?! Have you forgotten it??

[ghostwind]

After some more thinking, I've decided on the following. 

2 x Z9 bodies

24-70mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8, 35mm f/1.8, 85mm f/1.8, 1.4x converter, and 400mm f/2.8

Canon has nothing that matches the Z9; it's that simple. Their 70-200 f/2.8 also can't take a 1.4x converter and that zoom mechanism doesn't look great in bad weather - a deal-breaker. Any minor differences that check comparison boxes in reviews or YT videos (like whose AF is slightly better, whose color science is better, etc.) aren't significant to me as these are minor things. What's important is having a body that does what I need it to do and doesn't overheat - period. I can't show up at a client's site and worry about this. I went down the wrong path in reading too much and watching too many videos that go into those small and unimportant details rather than focusing on what's more critical - lenses, solid and worry-free bodies, etc. This thread has helped get me back on track, so thanks all!

 

[Emanuel]

Why Z9 and not Z8? Overheating? According to @Django there's nothing major against that one : X

Disclaimer: I haven't bought one yet because of this fear of yours @ghostwind

And TBH Z9 looks like more a brick to me... more than a half weight of a Blackmagic Ursa Mini! : P

[ghostwind]

14 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Why Z9 and not Z8? Overheating? According to @Django there's nothing major against that one : X

Disclaimer: I haven't bought one yet because of this fear of yours @ghostwind

And TBH Z9 looks like more a brick to me... more than a half weight of a Blackmagic Ursa Mini! : P

Yes, the Z9 doesn't overheat. The Z8 will, at times, unless on external power. It's just the physics of a smaller body, really. Also, the Z8 eats through batteries a lot more. I've been using large bodies like the Canon 1D(s/x) series for decades and prefer them over smaller bodies because they balance better with long lenses, battery life is better due to larger batteries, and the ergonomics feel better in vertical mode (the vertical grips of smaller bodies never seem to quite get the button layout right for some reason). Of course this is individual preference, but the heating is not. For some and their work and workflows, the Z8 battery life may very well be just fine.

[Emanuel]

27 minutes ago, ghostwind said:

Yes, the Z9 doesn't overheat. The Z8 will, at times, unless on external power. It's just the physics of a smaller body, really. Also, the Z8 eats through batteries a lot more. I've been using large bodies like the Canon 1D(s/x) series for decades and prefer them over smaller bodies because they balance better with long lenses, battery life is better due to larger batteries, and the ergonomics feel better in vertical mode (the vertical grips of smaller bodies never seem to quite get the button layout right for some reason). Of course this is individual preference, but the heating is not. For some and their work and workflows, the Z8 battery life may very well be just fine.

Does external power solve the overheating issue?

[ghostwind]

19 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Does external power solve the overheating issue?

Yes, it seems to.

[Emanuel]

7 minutes ago, ghostwind said:

Yes, it seems to.

What sources you have?

[ghostwind]

7 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

What sources you have?

2 fellow shooters that use it and tested it.

[Emanuel]

18 minutes ago, ghostwind said:

2 fellow shooters that use it and tested it.

Any details on their setup and findings? Really interested to know...

[ghostwind]

34 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Any details on their setup and findings? Really interested to know...

I believe with Delkin BLACK (the best performing card and the coolest temp) the almost got 30min before shutting down. With external power, no issues with any cards. 

If really interested, just rent one and push it and see.

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, Emanuel said:

And TBH Z9 looks like more a brick to me... more than a half weight of a Blackmagic Ursa Mini!

Which is not a mirrorless hybrid so not even in the conversation.

The Z9 is a MUCH better platform for those lens selections and the OP’s list of requirements and needs.

Personally speaking, if only considering my own needs and if I was looking at a 2 body set up and only a 2 body set up and Nikon, hands down the Z9.

But as someone who has settled on a 3 body approach (if I do go fully Nikon), based on my needs and lens choices, just a single Z8 can be one of my workhorses as part of a triumvirate (had to look up the spelling of that) of:

Z8 40% of my stills work + 10% of my video needs

Z6iii (assuming one appears before end of March ‘24) 0% stills and 80% video

Zf faux vintage camera, 60% stills plus 10% video

If I did my sums correctly, the above accounts for 100% of my stills work and 100% of my video.

Ballpark figures but more or less correct.

[Emanuel]

36 minutes ago, ghostwind said:

I believe with Delkin BLACK (the best performing card and the coolest temp) the almost got 30min before shutting down. With external power, no issues with any cards. 

If really interested, just rent one and push it and see.

I am very emotional, I don't like to take anything from someone's else except mine! LOL ; ) So, renting is not my cup of tea at all... Without mention I don't even have much time to sleep... Imagine now to handle from wherever else outside the place I am right now, let alone all the resources for. Time is very consuming and costs money. Yet, I am not in London, LA or NY as of now. But I have to balance the time very carefully to not fail with a few payrollsssss... ; )

It's plainly enough when we have some shooting going on and we really need it but then we have a budget allocated for.

What external power as for instance?

:- )

[gt3rs]

On 11/25/2023 at 1:29 PM, ghostwind said:

I did go by lenses above, but bodies are still important. Nikon also didn't really have video before the Z9 either. They always had lenses for what I do. 

I shoot college sports - football, soccer, hockey, basketball, lacrosse, & baseball. I usually use the 24-70 or 70-200 on one body (depending on the sport) and a 300 or 400 on the other body with a 1.4x at times. With Canon, I could use the 24-105 and 100-300 with 1.4x to replace those 3-4 lenses. Hockey I might still want to use a 70-200 though, as that's what I primarily use and the 100-300 is not so light to hold for the entire game. 

How's the 28-70 for video? My thinking was to use the 24-105 for most other things, with the 28-70 when I want shallower DOF or the light drops. But I would think the 24-105 would be nicer for video with the IS and power zoom. 

 

 

 

I cover a lot of ice hockey from U20 to pro league.
The 100-300 2.8 is imo THE hockey lens if you don’t shoot through the holes. Here we don’t have holes in the plexiglass, we shoot through glass and/or plexi or if lucky from in-between the benches.
The range is perfect to cover the full field with a 45mpix camera.

 

I started shooting ice hockey with 1Dx + 70-200 2.8, then added another 1Dx + 200-400 F4 and now 1 body only R5 + 100-300 2.8. I always handhold as in hockey there are so many interruptions that I have no problem handholding for the whole match.

 

Interesting fact is that a R5 + 100-300 is only 400 grams heavier than 1Dx III + 70-200 III. 

Here a couple of Saturday game:


Some more examples of the 100-300












 

[Django]

2 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Why Z9 and not Z8? Overheating? According to @Django there's nothing major against that one : X

Yeah don’t quote me on overheating, I didn’t push the Z8 by any means so yeah that’s a real valid concern. But the fact it has 2 USB-C ports, one for power and one for data is pretty dope, and if using a powerbank extends battery life and circumvents overheating then that’s killing two birds with one stone. 
 

Z9 is of course the better choice when it comes to battery life and overheating plus it’s lighter than Z8+battery grip. It’s definitely a solid alternative for a pro shooter, and for all I know I may go that route. I’m just afraid of the weight. Z8 is already up there but you can rig it up or strip it down. I guess I’ll have to try a Z9 next but I’m close to pulling trigger on Z8.

[MrSMW]

9 minutes ago, Django said:

Z9 is of course the better choice when it comes to battery life and overheating plus it’s lighter than Z8+battery grip.

Indeed. I know some like to be able to add or remove a battery grip, but if there is a model with a built in, I generally prefer it. The Z8 with the battery grip just looks big and clunky and is heavier and less streamlined than the Z9 for sure!

I am currently debating myself whether to pull the trigger on a Z8 now or wait until Jan...