Thoughts on Nikon Z9/Z8 vs. Canon R3/R5(c)?

[Emanuel]

Me too, but the versatility of a Z8 2-in-1 is much more shooter friendly than that brick, at least to my pleasure and my back... : D

If external power is the way to go when you need extra recording time, I don't see it as a troublemaker anymore in any way whatsoever, isn't it?

It's all about that, the million-dollar question to firmly get the right answer for the subject matter. What surprises me is no one has guaranteed it or even addressed the topic so far in a proper way. When this is the main point to clarify over the most interesting capture device nowadays. That is, we have tests for everything, except for this one, at least those to be able to fulfill the cup.

It's annoying to follow such those incomplete ones. They test 8K 24p, they forget to test 8K 60p but the camera is able to... C'mon *sigh*

[Jedi Master]

B&H has the R5C for $3399 today for their Cyber Monday sale.

[eatstoomuchjam]

I'm not sure if they'll restock it, but Canon has refurb R5's for $2200 until November 30.  It's a hell of a deal.

https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/refurbished-eos-r5-body?cjdata=MXxOfDB8WXww&cjevent=e91a0e218d5011ee81860f990a82b82c&utm_source=Sovrn+Inc&utm_campaign=13505864

[markr041]

Nikon Z8 $300 off today.

$3697, so forget the Canon R5C on price. IBIS is worth the small price difference...

[The Dancing Babamef]

In my field of work I couldn't get the Z8, even if it wouldn't overheat, but it's the batteries for me that sealed the deal. I used a Z6 for enough time and worrying about taking extra batteries on a 3 hour shoot and interrupting video recording to replace a battery. I was ready to move to the big boy.

I'm not a hardcore professional but even now as just a hobbyist I need the Z9 more and multiple times I've had to switch to the vertical shooting position with my 200-500 and twisting my hands with the same lens on the Z6 was enough for me to realize that there is a better way.

And now I only have 2 18C batteries with me. 1 is enough to cover a day with ON/OFF 8.3K RAW video recording. 

[ghostwind]

11 hours ago, gt3rs said:

I cover a lot of ice hockey from U20 to pro league.
The 100-300 2.8 is imo THE hockey lens if you don’t shoot through the holes. Here we don’t have holes in the plexiglass, we shoot through glass and/or plexi or if lucky from in-between the benches.
The range is perfect to cover the full field with a 45mpix camera.

 

I started shooting ice hockey with 1Dx + 70-200 2.8, then added another 1Dx + 200-400 F4 and now 1 body only R5 + 100-300 2.8. I always handhold as in hockey there are so many interruptions that I have no problem handholding for the whole match.

 

Interesting fact is that a R5 + 100-300 is only 400 grams heavier than 1Dx III + 70-200 III.

It's a nice lens, but it wasn't enough for me to go to Canon. Nikon has a 120-300 2.8 and rumors are they will make a Z version as well. For hockey I shoot both through the glass and through holes (at places that have them). It's college hockey, so it depends on the venue. In any case, I mostly use my 70-200 and my 24-70. If the light is good, I'll throw the 1.4x on the 70-200 and that's fine. Problem is, you can't use a 1.4x on the RF 70-200, and for me, that's a big problem TBH. Anyways, nice photos.

[Django]

5 hours ago, The Dancing Babamef said:

In my field of work I couldn't get the Z8, even if it wouldn't overheat, but it's the batteries for me that sealed the deal. I used a Z6 for enough time and worrying about taking extra batteries on a 3 hour shoot and interrupting video recording to replace a battery. I was ready to move to the big boy.

I'm not a hardcore professional but even now as just a hobbyist I need the Z9 more and multiple times I've had to switch to the vertical shooting position with my 200-500 and twisting my hands with the same lens on the Z6 was enough for me to realize that there is a better way.

And now I only have 2 18C batteries with me. 1 is enough to cover a day with ON/OFF 8.3K RAW video recording. 

Valid point, is the battery life that bad on Nikon bodies? I mean if it was bad on Z6 then its going to be horrible on a Z8? I don't quite realise as I didn't push the Z8 by any means when I tested it. Again using a USB-C external power solution is always an affordable option to get more juice out of it (same goes for R5C) but yeah Z9 I'm sure gives total peace of mind. I shoot a lot of vertical for stills as I mainly do portrait work so maybe Z9 is the body I should be considering if I go Nikon.

[gt3rs]

I posted many times that since I have 45 mpix/8k cameras no more vertical shooting. As I can deliver both vertical and horizontal version of the same pic/video to customer. 

Coming from 1D III, IV, 1Dx, II, III I really don't miss the grip I prefer to save weight for handholding and gimbal and change more batteries. 

[ghostwind]

2 hours ago, gt3rs said:

I posted many times that since I have 45 mpix/8k cameras no more vertical shooting. As I can deliver both vertical and horizontal version of the same pic/video to customer. 

Coming from 1D III, IV, 1Dx, II, III I really don't miss the grip I prefer to save weight for handholding and gimbal and change more batteries. 

You shooting in 8k to deliver in 4k and have the crop room?

[MrSMW]

21 hours ago, Django said:

I shoot a lot of vertical for stills as I mainly do portrait work so maybe Z9 is the body I should be considering if I go Nikon.

Something I keep going back to…

Z8 or Z9 either way, it’s just a question of trading smaller/lighter/cheaper, for better handling, albeit at the expense of size & weight, plus better battery life and cooling (not that I am much bothered with the latter for my needs) and costs more…

[Ilkka Nissila]

On 11/28/2023 at 10:41 AM, Django said:

Valid point, is the battery life that bad on Nikon bodies? I mean if it was bad on Z6 then its going to be horrible on a Z8? I don't quite realise as I didn't push the Z8 by any means when I tested it. Again using a USB-C external power solution is always an affordable option to get more juice out of it (same goes for R5C) but yeah Z9 I'm sure gives total peace of mind. I shoot a lot of vertical for stills as I mainly do portrait work so maybe Z9 is the body I should be considering if I go Nikon.

In my experience it isn't bad. A single Z8 battery (EN-EL15c) lasts about 2 hours of continuous video recording or 3-4 hours of active still photography (about 2000 shots). I often have the MB-N12 mounted with two EN-EL15cs inside, and that basically gets me through most events with the exception of all-day sports events that can last 8-10 hours - in those cases a third battery may be needed, or recharging during the day. 

If you need to do more than 2 hours of video recording or 2000 shots / 4 hours of active shooting then you do need two  batteries for the Z8. For winter weather conditions I'm not quite sure yet but with the dual battery setup in the vertical grip I just don't run into situations where the battery capacity becomes a limiting factor.

The Z9 battery is no doubt better, and the camera has some other advantages but with it you lose the option of having a more compact camera by taking the vertical grip off. It's just a personal choice of what you prioritise.

[MrSMW]

18 minutes ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

In my experience it isn't bad

I do think battery life is a little overrated on-line.

In my experience, all the cameras I have owned have well exceeded the official numbers. In the case of my Fuji cameras, between 2-3x.

The Lumix S5ii's have been about the same but the bigger battery cameras such as the S1R/S1H, waaaaaaay more life.

I don't think I have ever had to change a battery on an S1R/S1H on a full day's shoot except either very rarely or as a precaution later on.

Re. The Z8, does it have C1-3 dial? 

The Z9 I think does and this swings me in that direction as do the ergos and battery life.

What may clinch it for me is twin CF Express because I happen to have 2x 256GB Prograde cards just kicking around since selling my S1R's.

Plus the Z9 is just a bit more 'pro' than the Z8 so based on having a dinky (ish) faux vintage camera in the Zf, I'm back in the camp of Z9 as my 'big boy' unit and with no glass heavier than 900g, that makes for a sub 2.3kg unit max which itself though 300g over my 'ideal', is still 500g under what wha I have been using all year.

[Ilkka Nissila]

42 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Re. The Z8, does it have C1-3 dial? 

The Z9 I think does and this swings me in that direction as do the ergos and battery life.

What is a C1-3 dial? If you mean custom settings like U1-U3 on some Nikons, where the mode dial has customisable options which remember most settings, then no, neither the Z8 nor the Z9 have those. But there are photo shooting banks and custom settings banks.

[MrSMW]

Maybe it’s a Lumix thing then…

C = Custom

Super easy to flip between any 5 custom settings with C1 & C2 I have set for indoor and outdoor stills and then 3 options with C3 for video.

[Django]

2 hours ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

What is a C1-3 dial? If you mean custom settings like U1-U3 on some Nikons, where the mode dial has customisable options which remember most settings, then no, neither the Z8 nor the Z9 have those. But there are photo shooting banks and custom settings banks.

Are these custom banks on the Z's for video settings too or only photo? Basically can you have custom banks like A: 4K24p ProRes, B: 4K120p, 😄8K60p RAW etc? Those are so practical for quick codec/frame rate switching when on the field. If not, that's a big plus on the Canon side (although R5C only has them for photo mode as video mode uses the cine OS).

[gt3rs]

On 11/28/2023 at 2:18 PM, ghostwind said:

You shooting in 8k to deliver in 4k and have the crop room?

Other than 120fps that is 4k only, everything else I shoot in RAW so is 8k (R5c has cropped RAW too but I don't use it as I prefer to crop myself). I'm a fan of RAW as it can be graded more heavily without breaking apart, good colorists (not like me 😉 ) can do great with 10bit log material, me less so. I also like that I don't need to set the WB upfront especially when I have zero time for setup or mistakes.

I take a lot of stills out both horizontal and vertical, so the resolution helps.
Also with 8k I can frame it a bit more loose and have some safety or is some case adding camera movements when the camera is fix like a fake panning, I add a bit of fake camera shake in Resolve to have it more natural.
  
I normally deliver in 4k. I do archive in 8k. 
 

[markr041]

1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

Other than 120fps that is 4k only, everything else I shoot in RAW so is 8k (R5c has cropped RAW too but I don't use it as I prefer to crop myself). I'm a fan of RAW as it can be graded more heavily without breaking apart, good colorists (not like me 😉 ) can do great with 10bit log material, me less so. I also like that I don't need to set the WB upfront especially when I have zero time for setup or mistakes.

I take a lot of stills out both horizontal and vertical, so the resolution helps.
Also with 8k I can frame it a bit more loose and have some safety or is some case adding camera movements when the camera is fix like a fake panning, I add a bit of fake camera shake in Resolve to have it more natural.
  
I normally deliver in 4k. I do archive in 8k. 
 

There is 4K 120P RAW on the Z8/9, but cropped.

[The Dancing Babamef]

On 11/28/2023 at 10:41 AM, Django said:

Valid point, is the battery life that bad on Nikon bodies? I mean if it was bad on Z6 then its going to be horrible on a Z8? 

in my own testing the 15B-C battery lasts for about 1h 10min in non stop 4K recording. add to that burst and LCD display then it's going to give you about 45min. I usually carried 3-4 batteries with me and it was a hassle if I didn't immediately go and put them to charge which was which and going through all of them to find out the empty and full ones.

[Ilkka Nissila]

6 hours ago, The Dancing Babamef said:

in my own testing the 15B-C battery lasts for about 1h 10min in non stop 4K recording. add to that burst and LCD display then it's going to give you about 45min. I usually carried 3-4 batteries with me and it was a hassle if I didn't immediately go and put them to charge which was which and going through all of them to find out the empty and full ones.

The b type has lower capacity than c (and the difference is significant).  Recording time may also depend on which codec you use, some are more processing-intensive.

 

Django: You can use shooting menu settings banks (A-D) for video and the bank selection can be set to Fn1, Fn2, Fn3, or Fn vertical, for example. I am not a settings bank user so I would have to check if you can select the record file type, resolution and frame rate there but I would guess that you can.

[Django]

59 minutes ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

Django: You can use shooting menu settings banks (A-D) for video and the bank selection can be set to Fn1, Fn2, Fn3, or Fn vertical, for example. I am not a settings bank user so I would have to check if you can select the record file type, resolution and frame rate there but I would guess that you can.

If you don't mind checking and letting me know, I can't seem to find that info online or in the manual.

Would be totally awesome though if you could store specific video resolution, frame rate, shutter speed, log/profile, codec etc in a custom bank and recall them on the fly with indeed the Fn buttons! Fingers crossed that is a possibility..