24p is outdated

[zlfan]

34 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

I suggest to stop replying in this toxic thread so it can fuck off into oblivion. All good reasons not to engage with troll behaviour. To put it with the words of Mattias Burling: "Fly off" to the shores of other forums to be a pain in the tush there. We have had enough of this. Yikes. Good thing that Roger Deakins does not witness this nasty conduct and brutal rudeness and hostility. Actually Mattias didnt exactely say "fly" off.

Will you ask Roger Deakins how many cams does he have? or how many thongs does he have? LOL.

[Jedi Master]

12 minutes ago, zlfan said:

Now, the technological barrier is almost none. It is just internet, democratize information. Nowadays, you can have a crop mood ml raw cam lower than $500, and have true lossless 14 bit raw, on par with arriraw. 

Good point. The technology is now there for anyone to make movies. Granted, for every 10,000 movies made by the general public, probably 9,990 are not worth watching, but there's always going to be a few gems.

Hollywood seems to be producing mostly derivative stuff and remakes these days with very little true innovation. This leaves lots of room for indies to fill the vacuum with something truly new and innovative. Looking back on my recent Netflix viewing history recently, indie movies have comprised about 80% of my viewing.

[Jedi Master]

2 minutes ago, zlfan said:

how many thongs does he have? LOL

The thought of Roger in a thong is unsettling. 😆

[PannySVHS]

If that is what you detest the most then I am even less suprised by your antics which are more subtle than the obvious trolling. If that's what you reduce a statement to, no wonder that you need the name of a Jedimaster. To cite Mattias Burling...

[zlfan]

3 minutes ago, Jedi Master said:

Good point. The technology is now there for anyone to make movies. Granted, for every 10,000 movies made by the general public, probably 9,990 are not worth watching, but there's always going to be a few gems.

Hollywood seems to be producing mostly derivative stuff and remakes these days with very little true innovation. This leaves lots of room for indies to fill the vacuum with something truly new and innovative. Looking back on my recent Netflix viewing history recently, indie movies have comprised about 80% of my viewing.

You are totally right. Such a trend will be more and more apparent in the next 10 to 20 years. 

Hollywood now relies on fast actions and large scale green screen plus heavy vfx. Yet they still use 24p for these larger than life motion blurred movies. LOL. 

[PannySVHS]

The fact of you thinking of Roger Deakins being unsettling to you, because you imagine him  in clothes you find unsettling, is pretty uninspiring.

[zlfan]

1 minute ago, PannySVHS said:

The fact of you thinking of Roger Deakins being unsettling to you, because you imagine him  in clothes you find unsettling, is pretty uninspiring.

You are really imaginative, good for you as a future dp. lol. 

[Jedi Master]

10 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

If that is what you detest the most then I am even less suprised by your antics which are more subtle than the obvious trolling. If that's what you reduce a statement to, no wonder that you need the name of a Jedimaster. To cite Mattias Burling...

Sorry, but no matter what you think, I'm not trolling. People generally troll just to get a rise out of people and don't really have any interest in a topic. I genuinely have an interest in the artistic and technical aspects of filmmaking, and yes, I do have some strong opinions at times. 

So your usage of words like trolling and antics are not warranted here, at least not from my perspective. I chose the name Jedi Master because I like the Star Wars movies, not because of any felling of superiority. 

I'm not a professional filmmaker (far from it), so my opinions come from my own interests and research into the subject. I'm especially interested in the technical aspects because of my educational and professional background. I can speak authoritatively on subjects like signal processing, low-level hardware and firmware development, and the like, but cannot speak with professional authority on narrative filmmaking (but I can offer my opinion).

[zlfan]

13 minutes ago, Jedi Master said:

Good point. The technology is now there for anyone to make movies. Granted, for every 10,000 movies made by the general public, probably 9,990 are not worth watching, but there's always going to be a few gems.

Hollywood seems to be producing mostly derivative stuff and remakes these days with very little true innovation. This leaves lots of room for indies to fill the vacuum with something truly new and innovative. Looking back on my recent Netflix viewing history recently, indie movies have comprised about 80% of my viewing.

When indie dps have more influence than hollywood, they may make their own rules and the viewers will follow. Now it is all about eye-catching war. 

[PannySVHS]

13 minutes ago, zlfan said:

Will you ask Roger Deakins how many cams does he have? or how many thongs does he have? LOL.

You always lol about your own thong humor? Why? What's funny to you about forcing yourself into imagining a legendary and awesome dp in a thong? You ever seen a thong without a ridiculed context? This is a Dslm cinematography forum..Behave to the least of necessary standards or leave to where you came from, a life which shall be much more than trolling.

[JulioD]

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

I suggest to stop replying in this toxic thread so it can fuck off into oblivion. All good reasons not to engage with troll behaviour. To put it with the words of Mattias Burling: "Fly off" to the shores of other forums to be a pain in the tush there. We have had enough of this. Yikes. Good thing that Roger Deakins does not witness this nasty conduct and brutal rudeness and hostility. Actually Mattias didnt exactely say "fly" off.

I've also decided to opt out.  The problem with these engineering technical I read it on the internet types and have an opinion clowns is that they are demonstrably wrong.  

Even when you point it out to them they seem to ignore that and move onto their next tightly held narrow idea.  

They post opinions as fact and only demonstrate what they do not know or understand.  I've stopped bothering to point out their misinformation.  I think the rest of the posters here understand where they are off on their own.  

Even in the last two pages they've made some really stupid claims without understanding filmmaking fundamentals. They won't even know what I'm alluding to, but it shows that they have only a little understanding of the technology.  Just like one thought Titanic was shot HFR.  Why bother if they don't want to truly learn or understand.

[PannySVHS]

They? I would hope it would be not more than one.😅 Well, opting out and see you later.:)

[Jedi Master]

1 hour ago, JulioD said:

Even when you point it out to them they seem to ignore that and move onto their next tightly held narrow idea.  

I would point out that saying only 24FPS is cinematic is a tightly held, narrow idea. Just depends on your perspective. 

[mercer]

Yes, @JulioD the most interesting thing I have learned from this discussion is that I am not the only person still shooting ML Raw.

[Emanuel]

15 hours ago, zlfan said:

anyone is willing to explain why eu uses 25p, states for 24p? why 23p is not chosen, not cinematic?not larger than life? 23p is further away from 60p than 24p, so it is more larger than life?

The same way why you've chosen this one and not other individual to spend your lifetime with ; )

In this case, something had to be chosen as a standard.

Nothing against standards. They comply a function.

Would any of them be relevant to the equation?

Well, 24 is a multiple of several ones (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 12), 23 not ; )

Even 25 (1,5), a way less than 24.

Human perception works with mathematical variables.

Universe is math.

https://www.livescience.com/42839-the-universe-is-math.html

 

Human perception works with perspective.

Isn't 30p or 60p farther, or further away from 24p as you wrote, so as you have even confirmed? ;- )

 

- EAG :- )

 

 

[Emanuel]

13 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Well, 24 is a multiple of several ones (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 12), 23 not ; )
 

I stand corrected, obviously, 24 is a multiple of several ones but not of 5... LOL

It is 'cause my mind lives in the PAL world... : D

BTW, we use 25p because of the electricity and the frequency used here: 50Hz.

So, still stands for 24: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 12

[Emanuel]

15 hours ago, zlfan said:

Interesting discussion, actually. 

I guess your point is more about elitism vs populism.

One hundred years ago, 16p and 24p were determined by Hollywood powerful producers and dps single handed. The world followed. At the time, the technology is exclusive. Elitism in cinematography is true. 

Now, the technological barrier is almost none. It is just internet, democratize information. Nowadays, you can have a crop mood ml raw cam lower than $500, and have true lossless 14 bit raw, on par with arriraw. 

In the still photography world, such trend already happens. Anyone with an iphone or u43 cam, can snap at the right moment in the right place, some decisive moments. Some of these photos are no less than a pro's master piece, in all of the ways. 

In 10 to 20 years, such trend will come to the cinema world. Plus the AI, most of the time, you even don't need a pretty model anymore. Exciting time, but many old rules may not hold anymore, including the 24p thing. 

 

 

Not exactly.

 

We have two possible perwpectives on this one:

 

Seeing democratization as something welcome. It really is. But not without flaws such as the one mentioned. When people have no structure, as for instance, knowledge in order to be able to manage such access.

 

I meant instead though, when the wider the less.

Because of that need to reach everyone, the more the better. In this case, it is often the more the lower.

Communication becomes poorer. Standards come down from something higher, better, more sophisticated, not seen as something necessarily elitist but high-ranking content, complex to the other side of the coin for something capable to be absorbed by many. That's what mainstream means more invariably than it should.

Wider doesn't necessarily bring anything better or higher. Lots of times, just down. Yes, unfortunately. This is the real drama our medium lives. (Not such frame rate uproar... the wheel is invented!)

 

- EAG :- )

[Jedi Master]

4 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Wider doesn't necessarily bring anything better or higher. Lots of times, just down. Yes, unfortunately. This is the real drama our medium lives. (Not such frame rate uproar... the wheel is invented!)

I have no idea what you’re trying to say here. May I make a suggestion? Try writing your responses in your native language and run them through the Google translator to translate them to English. It’s worth a try.

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, Jedi Master said:

I have no idea what you’re trying to say here. May I make a suggestion? Try writing your responses in your native language and run them through the Google translator to translate them to English. It’s worth a try.

As said before, it would work exactly the same : ) Really. Don't you follow the problem going on here?

 

As written earlier too, a filmmaking forum is not a campus even though the efforts made along these many pages... haha

I am pretty sure you're able to find competent Colleges, Universities or a filmschool where people may learn the basics on the topic handled there.

 

To leave it out of the context doesn't help either.

One of those is true anyway:

1) You're doing it on purpose just trying to succeed with the art *cough cough* of winning an argument... : D

2) Or you're just being picky because there's some portion of a line to actually escape you... Reading is a fuck* indeed.

* For such level of material, the meaning of the stuff is hidden in the articulation of the subliminal text, between the lines and the like. It's not inside the post you'll definitely find the information you're looking for. There's a whole construction out there. Takes many years, experience of life, academics and so on. A whole lifetime almost invariably.

 

But once you asked it:

Expandir o espectro não significa necessariamente algo melhor. Muitas das vezes, apenas pior (= down). Infelizmente, este é o caso. Este é o drama real que o nosso medium vive hoje. Não esse alvoroço em torno da questão do número de fotogramas. A roda já está inventada.

Did it help?

I doubt whatever you'll add as your answer to the question.

For a simple reason. There are concepts like mainstream, to make the audience wider, what it does mean (when the knwoledge spread allover the population is low), mass communication and so on.

Let alone art itself. Yes, art, aesthetics... How many times they come to be written here? And, so what? Gilles Deleuze and Artavazd Peleshyan have been mentioned by myself. Have you ever been in touch with their work? Any contact with the meaning of their contribution in fact?

 

:- )

[Emanuel]

*knowledge (no typos or carefree language converted in written posts will contaminate the speech or the understanding of the receiver... the same for the use of a non-native idiom as second language, that's beyond and more complex than that)