24p is outdated

[philipd]

57 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Dang.  Now that I read it on the internet it must be true.

30fps is another option, at least that will do away with the issues of 24fps not going into 60 evenly.  

59 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Maybe they're just being polite? 🙂

I've got true friends who wouldn't feel the need to lie to me to be polite, so I know its not that 😊  If you find 24fps visually appealing then that is fine by me, each to their own.

[Jedi Master]

1 hour ago, philipd said:

60p looks awful?  Everyone who's seen my videos at 60fps have said they look stunning, no one has said "Doesn't look a film the frame rate is too high". 

I took my new camera to San Francisco last weekend to capture Christmas in the city. I filmed at 60p and showed the footage to family on Christmas day and I got the same reaction you did. No one said it gave them a headache or complained that it felt like someone peed in their eggnog.

[fuzzynormal]

53 minutes ago, Jedi Master said:

No one said it gave them a headache or complained that it felt like someone peed in their eggnog.

24PEE

[PannySVHS]

1 hour ago, Jedi Master said:

I took my new camera to San Francisco last weekend to capture Christmas in the city. I filmed at 60p and showed the footage to family on Christmas day and I got the same reaction you did. No one said it gave them a headache or complained that it felt like someone peed in their eggnog.

What new camera? What did you film? Would you like to share?

[Jedi Master]

42 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

What new camera? What did you film? Would you like to share?

Canon C300 Mk3. Just general travelog style video in various areas of SF--Ferry Building, Embarcadero, Fisherman's Wharf/Pier 39, Chinatown, Union Square, GG Park.

Took the cam on the Powell Street cable car line from Market St to Fisherman's Wharf, and let me tell you, handholding a C300 with 2-1/2 pound cine lens and battery with my left hand while standing and holding onto the cable car with my other arm is a real arm killer! Got some good footage, however.

Most interesting sight was a group of demonstrators demonstrating for a cease fire in Gaza who completely blocked Market Street and stopped traffic (we were half a block away waiting in the line for the cable car).They later went to Union Square (right after we left the area on the cable car) and vandalized the Christmas tree and some of the monuments.

[kye]

8 hours ago, philipd said:

60p looks awful?  Everyone who's seen my videos at 60fps have said they look stunning, no one has said "Doesn't look a film the frame rate is too high". 

No-one who's seen my videos at 24p have said "Doesn't look like a TV soap opera the frame rate is too low".

7 hours ago, philipd said:

If you find 24fps visually appealing then that is fine by me, each to their own.

If that's true then why are you posting to a thread on the internet arguing that 60p is better?

Hoping to get Deakins to finally upgrade to a proper framerate?

[BTM_Pix]

As I'm quite interested in getting a 4K laser projector, that Sony VPL-GTZ380 mentioned earlier piqued my interest so I might have a look into that as it could.....hang on...let me google it.....christ on a fucking bike.

I mean, seriously, genuinely well played for being able to afford to buy that but christ on a fucking bike.

 

[kye]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

As I'm quite interested in getting a 4K laser projector, that Sony VPL-GTZ380 mentioned earlier piqued my interest so I might have a look into that as it could.....hang on...let me google it.....christ on a fucking bike.

I mean, seriously, genuinely well played for being able to afford to buy that but christ on a fucking bike.

 

Sony, modestly priced, as usual.

[PannySVHS]

15 hours ago, Jedi Master said:

Took the cam on the Powell Street cable car line from Market St to Fisherman's Wharf, and let me tell you, handholding a C300 with 2-1/2 pound cine lens and battery with my left hand while standing and holding onto the cable car with my other arm is a real arm killer! Got some good footage, however.

That is some of the most outrageous stunts I´ve ever read about on this forum. What heavy biggie of a lens did you accompany your C300 with? Have you ever thought about sharing your footage with others but your friends, do you mind sharing with us?

[BTM_Pix]

2 hours ago, kye said:

Sony, modestly priced, as usual.

I will be using the Sony VPL-GTZ380 in the presentation when pleading my case to the wife regarding the €2100 LG Cinebeam that I've got my eye on.

"Listen, it could be a lot worse love".

[zlfan]

try 180 or 360 degree slow panning, you will see clearly the difference between 24p and 60p. for 24p slow wide panning, i am used to ml raw's unaffected image quality, r1mx's redcode 42 is good enough, prores 422 hq is barely enough, even renowned xavc 480 makes me feel dizzy, not to say other thinner codecs which are popularly used in many latest mirrorless cams. on the other hand, even af100a's avchd 24 mbits 60p is totally fine to my eyes. 

 

for hollywood blockbusters, even they use 24p mostly, you never know if they do motion blur reduction in post or other techniques onsite to reduce motion blurs, unless you are onsite or in the circle. 

[Jedi Master]

7 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

That is some of the most outrageous stunts I´ve ever read about on this forum. What heavy biggie of a lens did you accompany your C300 with? 

If I knew how my arm would feel after that I wouldn't have done it! It wasn't some big monster cine zoom--just a 35mm T2.1 prime. Fortunately, we had a very good driver (or whatever you call them) and the ride was very smooth. If I had to do it again, I'd ride on the other side so I could hold the camera in my right hand (I'm right handed) and hold onto the car with my left. My wife thought it was hilarious--you can hear her giggling in the scratch audio track.

[Jedi Master]

11 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I mean, seriously, genuinely well played for being able to afford to buy that but christ on a fucking bike.

I work in an industry were the top guys are very well-paid, particularly in stock options. One of my co-workers is into sailboat racing and paid $400,000 for his boat. Another is into flying, and paid $700,000 for a plane. My hobbies are more modest in comparison, especially in recurring costs (it costs a lot to moor a boat or hanger and maintain a plane). 

[BTM_Pix]

I suspect sailboat man and plane man likely have much the same "its all relative" outlook about their purchases when they consider that you've paid nearly $100K for a telly.

More power to your elbow for being in the position to do so and buying whatever you want though, as you can't take it with you.

George Best had the right idea.

[fuzzynormal]

3 hours ago, Jedi Master said:

My hobbies are more modest in comparison, especially in recurring costs 

Serious question, do you think you've been able to parlay your financial liberty into making meaningful cinema, even as a hobbyist?  

I ask because I think, even now, that creating motion pictures is a sandbox in which the affluent are more likely to be able to truly play.

[kye]

13 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I will be using the Sony VPL-GTZ380 in the presentation when pleading my case to the wife regarding the €2100 LG Cinebeam that I've got my eye on.

"Listen, it could be a lot worse love".

I'd suggest for the presentation that you mention the price of the Sony first.  In each conversation you only get to set the "anchor" once and it's remarkably persistent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring_effect

In the recent trend of cinematographers asking their partners how much they think each bit of their kit costs, the pattern that I saw was that they tended to overestimate the value of smaller items because they were so used to discussing the huge prices of cinema camera bodies and cine lenses.

5 hours ago, Jedi Master said:

I work in an industry were the top guys are very well-paid, particularly in stock options. One of my co-workers is into sailboat racing and paid $400,000 for his boat. Another is into flying, and paid $700,000 for a plane. My hobbies are more modest in comparison, especially in recurring costs (it costs a lot to moor a boat or hanger and maintain a plane). 

Yes, it's all relative.  Every now and then when I think about how much money I have spent on cameras and lenses I remember that it's common for people to buy a V8 car, or motorcycle, or spent $100 a week on alcohol or cigarettes, so the fact I spend less than that on a hobby that is family friendly and doesn't risk my health puts things into perspective.

2 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

Serious question, do you think you've been able to parlay your financial liberty into making meaningful cinema, even as a hobbyist?  

I ask because I think, even now, that creating motion pictures is a sandbox in which the affluent are more likely to be able to truly play.

My impression was that it's more about who you know rather than how much money you have.  With all the crap that's being pumped out of Hollywood it's not like there's no funding available, and even if you can self-fund a film your money won't give you a distribution deal etc.

Maybe these days if you can make something and then put it on streaming and promote it then maybe you can get people to watch it, but you're less likely to make money or get lots of views than if you knew people and someone else paid for promotion, and if you just wanted lots of eyeballs then you'd be better off just making lots of content and gradually building an audience surely?

[Jedi Master]

19 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

Serious question, do you think you've been able to parlay your financial liberty into making meaningful cinema, even as a hobbyist?

No, I haven't. I do it just for fun, and my two favorite parts are going out in the field filming and editing. Showing the result is my least favorite part. I have no illusions that I'm creating meaningful cinema of any kind. Using expensive, shiny gadgets doesn't make my work any better, it's just more fun using that stuff, just like driving a fast sports car won't make grocery shopping any easier, but certainly more fun.

The projector and other stuff in my home theater is used 99% of the time to watch movies and 1% to watch what I film, so it's optimized for the former. 

[zlfan]

On 12/30/2023 at 1:21 PM, Jedi Master said:

I work in an industry were the top guys are very well-paid, particularly in stock options. One of my co-workers is into sailboat racing and paid $400,000 for his boat. Another is into flying, and paid $700,000 for a plane. My hobbies are more modest in comparison, especially in recurring costs (it costs a lot to moor a boat or hanger and maintain a plane). 

wow

[zlfan]

On 12/30/2023 at 1:21 PM, Jedi Master said:

I work in an industry were the top guys are very well-paid, particularly in stock options. One of my co-workers is into sailboat racing and paid $400,000 for his boat. Another is into flying, and paid $700,000 for a plane. My hobbies are more modest in comparison, especially in recurring costs (it costs a lot to moor a boat or hanger and maintain a plane). 

for your financial status, i think a brand new alexa 35 plus a set of cooke primes for portraiture, and another red monstro 8k and a set of zeiss master primes for nature, either miller or oconner or sachtler heavy duty tripod is fine. you may need a small travel package, om1 with some pro lenses are good for this purpose. 

[kye]

8 hours ago, Jedi Master said:

No, I haven't. I do it just for fun, and my two favorite parts are going out in the field filming and editing. Showing the result is my least favorite part. I have no illusions that I'm creating meaningful cinema of any kind. Using expensive, shiny gadgets doesn't make my work any better, it's just more fun using that stuff, just like driving a fast sports car won't make grocery shopping any easier, but certainly more fun.

The projector and other stuff in my home theater is used 99% of the time to watch movies and 1% to watch what I film, so it's optimized for the former. 

I enjoy shooting far more than editing, but that's because I don't feel like I know what I'm doing in post yet.  The more I learn the more I enjoy the process though, which is encouraging.

One thing that people often forget is that film-making is a creative pursuit and that humans are emotional creatures.  One of the critical ways this manifests in film-making is that if your equipment is frustrating to use then you will be frustrated and will not make as good creative decisions (e.g. compositions) as you might have if you were in a better mood.  If you are around people, and especially if you are interacting with the people you are filming, then your mood will alter the behaviour of those people, directly influencing the people in the frame.

Personally, I have used cameras in the past that made me feel like I was fighting them the whole time, and I am sure the shots suffered because of it.  When I shoot now, not only do I use cameras that feel like they're helping me, but I also know that the images I get in post will be aesthetically pleasing and working with them in post will be straight-forwards, and these things make me enjoy shooting much more, making the experience nicer (which is important considering I do this for fun) but also meaning that the influence I am having on the creative aspects will be more creative as well.