24p is outdated

[zlfan]

I used to use mpeg 50 mpbs 8 bit 420 24p 2k on well regarded f5 for news/events. I was really disappointed why the iq was not as others said. 

now I use sr444 10 bit 444 30p 2k . the only issue is the memory card is easily filled up. but the codec holds up well for slow panning. 

[zlfan]

for contrast based af, 60p helps af accuracy and reliability. I guess that for focus pullers, 60p helps too as the image is crispier. 

[zlfan]

just did another shoot out with c300 og at 29.97 fps with the camera set at 59.94i using the in camera codec 50 mbps mpeg2. in resolve it recognizes as 29.97p. 

when the scene is static, it is great. when there is camera movement like panning and tilting, or even when there is subject walking in the static scene, on 4k monitor, the loss of image quality is very apparent. on laptop, it is not as apparent as on the 4k large monitor, but still visible.

so this confirms again my previous observation. when the codec is weak, at 24p or 30p, either the camera movement is to be avoided, or use 60p. at 24p uncompressed raw or low compression raw, slow camera movements seem ok. faster movements may have issue. but I normally don't do whip panning. also, rolling shutter may kick in, so it is hard to define the effects of the 24p, the codec, the rolling shutter. 

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

Are you really basing your evaluation of 29.97 fps on having captured using an interlaced format?

[zlfan]

On 7/28/2024 at 9:02 PM, eatstoomuchjam said:

Are you really basing your evaluation of 29.97 fps on having captured using an interlaced format?

the same. either 29.97p or 59.94i. there is a difference of the loss of quality, though. 59.94i footage rendered in 29.97p has horizontal line skipping artifacts when moving the cam. 29.97p has jumpy movements. 

just did a 23.98p prores hq 4k from c500 og sdi out. jumpy or choppy panning. from my experience, only uncompressed or low compression raw holds up at 24p.  

[eatstoomuchjam]

The "jumpy" thing has been addressed/discussed to death already.  There's no need to re-litigate this.

[zlfan]

14 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

The "jumpy" thing has been addressed/discussed to death already.  There's no need to re-litigate this.

depends on codec, the behavior is different. for mpeg2 50 mbps, which is a standard for broadcast news, the panning artifact is blurring. once panning or tilting starts, the image is not clear. once the camera movement stops, it is clear. for xavc (Sony's mp4 implementation), the artifact is jumpy or choppy. for prores, similar to xavc. 

actually, theoretic discussion of the reasons of panning artifacts is not useful to me. as I am a practical man, the only way I find out that can solve this problem is using uncompressed or true lossless raw cameras if want to stay at 24p, or go 60p if the camera can do 60p and does not have a thick codec. 

I have seen blurred or choppy panning or tilting all the time, even on famous camera reviewers' footage. there is no deny that this kind of artifacts exist. I doubt that there is a practical way to prevent this happening on a camera that does thin codec 24p. most of time, experienced dps avoid camera movements at 24p if they use thin codec cameras, as you see from their demo reels. 

[eatstoomuchjam]

Yes, that is all why I said that it's already been discussed to death and is well-understood.  Use a decent codec if you want to shoot 24p and pan/tilt.

[zlfan]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Yes, that is all why I said that it's already been discussed to death and is well-understood.  Use a decent codec if you want to shoot 24p and pan/tilt.

this I totally agree.