24p is outdated

[JulioD]

1 hour ago, KnightsFan said:

And do you prefer the plot, dialog, and action to accurately represent real life exclusively? Or do you ever like characters that are braver, stronger, or more villainous than real life? My whole point in my first post was that deviations from reality are used in every aspect of films and storytelling in general.

But Kye's post wasn't about the color grade only, it was the entire visual design. We don't light real life the same way we light movies. What is the difference in your opinion between unrealistic lighting design, and unrealistic motion design?

 

There are no wrong opinions of course, I'm just asking questions to explain my point of view on it.

The director himself went back on HFR.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/dec/13/peter-jackson-48fps-tone-down-hobbit-desolation-smaug-hd

“Peter Jackson says he has toned down the higher frame rate version of Hobbit sequel The Desolation of Smaug following complaints from audiences and critics about the sharp look of its predecessor.”

When the director does an about face and has to talk about a technology component to a piece of entertain,meant, yeah that’s a disaster.  That’s because HFR was UNIVERSALLY disliked.  

https://www.vulture.com/2012/12/critics-on-the-hobbits-high-frame-rate.html#

And whole articles have been written about the HFR reaction.   

You may think HFR is the “future” but you’re in a small minority that like HFR for drama.  Good for you.

 

[JulioD]

1 hour ago, zlfan said:

hobbit was a disaster?! lol.

for what? losing money? 

i enjoy watching the series very much. a lot of people i know like it. 

Sorry, my above post was meant to be responding to this one.

 

 

[zlfan]

47 minutes ago, JulioD said:

The director himself went back on HFR.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/dec/13/peter-jackson-48fps-tone-down-hobbit-desolation-smaug-hd

“Peter Jackson says he has toned down the higher frame rate version of Hobbit sequel The Desolation of Smaug following complaints from audiences and critics about the sharp look of its predecessor.”

When the director does an about face and has to talk about a technology component to a piece of entertain,meant, yeah that’s a disaster.  That’s because HFR was UNIVERSALLY disliked.  

https://www.vulture.com/2012/12/critics-on-the-hobbits-high-frame-rate.html#

And whole articles have been written about the HFR reaction.   

You may think HFR is the “future” but you’re in a small minority that like HFR for drama.  Good for you.

 

"“Peter Jackson says he has toned down the higher frame rate version of Hobbit sequel The Desolation of Smaug following complaints from audiences and critics about the sharp look of its predecessor.”"

nice pr.

a famous dp cannot have his freedom on artistic exploration.

sad story.  

[zlfan]

1 hour ago, JulioD said:

Maybe you should lead with that instead of making troll-baiting posts with a title of “24p is outdated”.

You can’t even tell when watching the difference between 24P and HFR.

It’s an objectively wrong statement. End of story. 

 

interesting. 24p will not be as main stream as now, isn't this outdated? does this prevent some one using 24p? no law forbids this. nowadays you can go sepia film, and people think this is fashionable. comparing to 50 years ago, when bw film was the mainstream, isn't there any difference? but anyways, i don't want to put you on bait. you don't need to enter this post and ramble.  

[zlfan]

1 hour ago, JulioD said:

 

You can’t even tell when watching the difference between 24P and HFR.

 

 

where did i say i cannot tell the difference of 24p and 60p. i don't care when i watch a good movie. and i don't think 24p is for cinema and 60p is for sports. 

i encourage you to email christopher nolan that 3d is hyper realism and his gravity movie is a reality show. lol. 

[zlfan]

if we want to use some scientific terms to analyze

"24p is dream like, has motion cadence of a movie, so it is cinematic. "

actually, this is annotation, correlation, but not causal effects. 

anyways, i just ramble myself a prediction after i see such a smooth 5k 60p from a small action cam and watch youtube to display 4k 60p on so many clips. i myself have no objection to use 24p. i use my cameras to their best modes, some are 24p, some 30p, some 60p. and i present them on youtube natively in terms of frame rate, except sometimes i intentionally want slow mo. and i use these cams in their best modes doing anything i like, as long as it is legal.  

[zlfan]

i guess that my point is that "don't kill the messenger, pay attention to the message". but if the attitude is "there is no message? you need to be killed for peaceful mind." then life goes on. no need to fight to death, "it is just a game", or it is just a frame rate thing. lol. 

[Emanuel]

I just see some statements like they come from a certain grade of expertise when they don't : ) Without mention to put Peter Jackson, only to name one case, as he could be an authority on film aesthetics... *Phew* C'mon, this sounds a bit pathetic to not write plenty enough.

[zlfan]

13 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

 

What are the other cams you have? Which one would be the one and only for you? What frame rate did you shoot mostly in? Have you done a short film with your red one mx in higher framerates?

i guess on a clothing forum, the question will be "how many thongs do you have?" "no thongs, no freedom of speech." lol. 

[Emanuel]

I guess absolute freedom of speech... : ) I think Marty aka @PannySVHS is more focused towards credentials on this one 'cause a certain level of democracy typifies to weigh variables for making it fair and balanced. Ignorance cannot equal its opposite. It's all about that IMHO (EAG :- )

[zlfan]

10 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

I just see some statements like they come from a certain grade of expertise when they don't : ) Without mention to put Peter Jackson, only to name one case, as he could be an authority on film aesthetics... *Phew* C'mon, this sounds a bit pathetic to not write plenty enough.

man is what he eats. habits shape the personality. 

[Emanuel]

2 minutes ago, zlfan said:

man is what he eats. habits shape the personality. 

Democracy means responsibility to open the mouth about something we had studied at least a bit to begin with. No need to go to school but requires hard work. Hype is not enough. This doesn't bring good habits or enough to classify anything.

[zlfan]

1 minute ago, Emanuel said:

I guess absolute freedom of speech... : ) I think Marty (PannySVHS) is more focused towards credentials on this one 'cause a certain level of democracy typifies to weigh variables for making it fair and balanced. Ignorance cannot equal its opposite. It's all about that IMHO (EAG :- )

sometimes people are talented on something. you cannot tell. 

in 2008, when i predicted that 5d2 was going to kill ex1/ex3 and 2/3 pro eng cams, someone raised the same question, what credential do you have to make sure this prediction is right. It just came out correct 10 years later, and he never admitted his previous stance and suspicion and arrogance later when i see him. 

[zlfan]

1 minute ago, Emanuel said:

Democracy means responsibility to open the mouth about something we had studied at least a bit to begin with. No need to go to school but requires hard work. Hype is not enough. This doesn't bring good habits or enough to classify anything.

actually i think nowadays people favoring s16 or s35 film is hype. digital cinema is very mature by now.  in the new era of digital cinema and new distribution platform, many old rules don't hold. but prediction needs time to confirm, by then maybe this forum is gone already. so predictors always are under pressure. no big deal though. it is just a forum. lol. 

[Emanuel]

8 minutes ago, zlfan said:

sometimes people are talented on something. you cannot tell. 

in 2008, when i predicted that 5d2 was going to kill ex1/ex3 and 2/3 pro eng cams, someone raised the same question, what credential do you have to make sure this prediction is right. It just came out correct 10 years later, and he never admitted his previous stance and suspicion and arrogance later when i see him. 

If you go on reduser you'll have the chance to find posts of mine about RED itself in the same period about the same 5D2 equation ; )

It's not about crystall ball we are here now nor such recent past but hundreds of years of art history and psychology (perception) only to name a few ;- )

One hundred years and a quarter of history of this medium can also help because there are a lot of examples but takes time to watch them all! : D

[Emanuel]

9 minutes ago, zlfan said:

actually i think nowadays people favoring s16 or s35 film is hype. digital cinema is very mature by now.  in the new era of digital cinema and new distribution platform, many old rules don't hold. but prediction needs time to confirm, by then maybe this forum is gone already. so predictors always are under pressure. no big deal though. it is just a forum. lol. 

The same way TV didn't kill radio, the screen didn't extinguish the stage ; ) Or vice versa?? : D Does it matter what comes next? Really? ;- ) LOL

[zlfan]

2 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

If you go on reduser you'll have the chance to find posts of mine about RED itself in the same period about the same 5D2 equation ; ) It's not about crystall ball we are here now nor such recent past but hundreds of years of art history and psychology only to name a few ;- ) One hundred years and a quarter of history of this medium can also help because there are a lot of examples but takes time to watch them all! LOL :- )

if you were a red user at that time, you are pretty good. and thanks for the help you give. actually i just rambled out something i see will happen in the future. it is extremely normal that people have different thoughts about this. i don't anticipate others agree with me. i just see a thing and say here. but it very possibly may be true. because i found myself pretty good at prediction. but you may well be thinking i am bragging. that is fine. i may have more questions to ask you in the future. let us keep good online relationship. don't argue with something not important. 

[Emanuel]

3 minutes ago, zlfan said:

if you were a red user at that time, you are pretty good. and thanks for the help you give. actually i just rambled out something i see will happen in the future. it is extremely normal that people have different thoughts about this. i don't anticipate others agree with me. i just see a thing and say here. but it very possibly may be true. because i found myself pretty good at prediction. but you may well be thinking i am bragging. that is fine. i may have more questions to ask you in the future. let us keep good online relationship. don't argue with something not important. 

On the contrary, it is rather important what dreams are made of ; )

In any case, prediction is hardly to end pretty accurate 100% even when we think digital ended with film, looks like to see many zombies out there : D or Kodak wouldn't launch a Super 8 camera for $5000 or do you think they would?

[zlfan]

9 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

The same way TV didn't kill radio, the screen didn't extinguish the stage ; ) Or vice versa?? : D Does it matter what comes next? Really? ;- ) LOL

your thinking is very european. no bad saying. just my feeling. 

[JulioD]

1 hour ago, zlfan said:

where did i say i cannot tell the difference of 24p and 60p.

You proved it.

You said you loved Titanic because it was shot HFR.

It wasn’t.

That’s makes all your arguments invalid really.  24FPS isn’t going anywhere.