World's smallest DSLM that shoots 4k?

[kye]

6 hours ago, zlfan said:

yeh, digital is, but extremely good. 

Yeah, but not IBIS.  The differences matter, so please fact-check yourself before posting.

[fuzzynormal]

I haven't gone back through all the responses, but is the EM10iii listed?  It's kinda small'ish. I use it and like it.

[ac6000cw]

10 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

I haven't gone back through all the responses, but is the EM10iii listed?  It's kinda small'ish. I use it and like it.

Good thought.

It's about the same size and weight as the E-M5 iii (and around half the price used). But the older 16MP sensor, and no PDAF, mic input or C4K either.

[John Matthews]

Just saw another deal on the GX880 +12-32 kit for 449 euros new. Given the prices on the used market for point and shoots and small DSLM, it's super-hard to get a deal on any smallish camera theses days. According to some, no impressively small cameras will ever be made again. That would be sad and in that case, it makes sense to grab what you can.

[John Matthews]

APS-C on L-Mount is going to compete well against M43 if Panasonic continues with currently sized cameras. What would you you choose? Sure, M43 has more features and better resolution, but the FF offers more possibilities when you're not trying to go small.

[MrSMW]

I could go either way with these bodies…

It would be easy to say that for stills the S5ii full frame sensor is better and it almost certainly is in my opinion, but there is a strong counter with the G9ii despite having the same body, smaller and lighter lenses at equivalent focal lengths.

For event work, it’s a lot easier for me to say FF, but for most other stuff, I could be tempted with the 4/3 option.

Video and stills.

I presume the G9ii has the same shutter button feel and sound as the S5ii though and that for me has been the biggest and only real issue with the S5ii.

G9ii vs OM-1, I know where my money would go.

[John Matthews]

13 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I could go either way with these bodies…

It would be easy to say that for stills the S5ii full frame sensor is better and it almost certainly is in my opinion, but there is a strong counter with the G9ii despite having the same body, smaller and lighter lenses at equivalent focal lengths.

For event work, it’s a lot easier for me to say FF, but for most other stuff, I could be tempted with the 4/3 option.

Video and stills.

I presume the G9ii has the same shutter button feel and sound as the S5ii though and that for me has been the biggest and only real issue with the S5ii.

G9ii vs OM-1, I know where my money would go.

Man, you really don't like the shutter in the S5ii! It doesn't bug me that much, but I have heard better.

[MrSMW]

12 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Man, you really don't like the shutter in the S5ii! It doesn't bug me that much, but I have heard better.

Yup. To the he point where for work for stills it’s a dealbreaker for me. Sadly. I wish it were otherwise.

[ac6000cw]

On 1/21/2024 at 5:26 PM, John Matthews said:

APS-C on L-Mount is going to compete well against M43 if Panasonic continues with currently sized cameras. What would you you choose? Sure, M43 has more features and better resolution, but the FF offers more possibilities when you're not trying to go small.

In reality - neither, because having played around with an S5 ii, I don't like the ergonomics of that body design, it just feels uncomfortable/awkward to use in my hand.

Ignoring that, probably the G9 ii due to smaller & lighter long telephoto lenses, probably better IBIS, lower rolling shutter and less moire issues (assuming the video performance is comparable to a GH6).

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

In reality - neither, because having played around with an S5 ii, I don't like the ergonomics of that body design, it just feels uncomfortable/awkward to use in my hand.

See, I'm the other way.

I would prefer it had a 3 way tilt screen like the S1H, never mind the resolution of that kind of screen, or even would have preferred a simple tilt rather than the flip out, plus everyone knows I absolutely hate the shutter button feel and sound 😜 but the rest of it I love.

The form factor and ergos...for me...are just about spot on. For this size and type of camera.

Very similar to Fuji's XH2 which is just about 'perfect' to me as are the OM1 and Canon R3.

Which just goes to show we are all different. Which is cool.

Fix the shutter, I could live with the screen and have some Tamron medium/longer lens equivalents as options and I'd never look anywhere ever again.

But then there is the reality of the current situation. Which is not the above.

[PannySVHS]

On 1/15/2024 at 9:36 AM, Davide DB said:

I know that video and the author well. yes it's shot in 4K.

Awesome. I think the LX15 was put to fantastic use. The person is an artist imo.

[John Matthews]

Well, it sounds like the GX880 has been discontinued, according digixo.com, the "smallest 4k DSLM camera with a proper shutter". I'm hoping for a non EVF replacement, but I know no one thinks it'll ever happen. If M43 has only become G9ii-sized cameras, Panasonic will have problems IMO.

[Tim Sewell]

Well this all went a bit stupid for me. After my last post in this thread I got myself a ZV-1F, the fixed focal length version, which would have been pretty ideal for my use case as I described it.

To digress slightly, a friend of mine has her 30th birthday party this weekend, for which she and some other friends have formed a band - just for that one gig - and have been practising their set since August. I had offered to photograph this one-off gig for them, but they had already secured the services of her brother, a photography enthusiast, to do it. Anyway, saw her in the pub on Saturday and she asked if I could do it after all as her brother has - unsurprisingly - decided he'd rather just enjoy the evening.

Fine. Except for the fact that I sold both my stills cameras in December to finance the FS7.

So now I'm selling the ZV and have lashed out on a s/h A6600. Luckily I've got a bunch of stuff on eBay right now, so I can swallow the cost.

I have to say, though, I'm rather liking the A6600. I know it's had a lot of knocks, not leat on this forum, for the dated sensor, RS etc; but bearing those deficiencies in mind it actually works pretty nicely. The AF (even on my adapted Canon lenses) is excellent, the IBIS is great and from the few video clips I've done it seems it will intercut with the FS7 footage just fine, despite only being 8 bit. It will also, obviously, also fulfil my needs for the festival film that first caused me to chime in on the thread.

So much for a no-gear 2024!

[John Matthews]

Now the GX880 is discontinued without replacement, the OMDS/Olympus E-P7 is the lightest/smallest DSLM capable of recording 4K you can currently buy on the new market. Is that correct?

Over the GX880 and payment for the extra 67g, you get:

• proper downsampled 4k image using the full width of the M43 sensor
• proper IBIS
• much more capable shutter
• hotshoe and high flash sync 1/250
• 24fps, 25fps, and 30fps in 4k
• 30 minute time recording time limit
• better dials and handling
• far more color options
• proper sd card
• better battery

You lose:

• flip up screen vs. flip down screen
• Panasonic menus and other Panasonic video-related features
• better build quality (E-P7 is VERY hollow feeling and doesn't give much confidence)
• better quality 60fps footage
• way less expensive

Am I missing something?

[kye]

Gary W bought the GX850 when this thread was going strong, and he's just posted his 2 month review with it.  He mostly takes stills so that's the focus of his review.

TDLR; he really likes it and finds that it has an X-factor that he can't explain that makes him really enjoy using it.  It's not going to replace his GX85, but it makes a great compliment to it.

 

[John Matthews]

1 hour ago, kye said:

Gary W bought the GX850 when this thread was going strong, and he's just posted his 2 month review with it.  He mostly takes stills so that's the focus of his review.

TDLR; he really likes it and finds that it has an X-factor that he can't explain that makes him really enjoy using it.  It's not going to replace his GX85, but it makes a great compliment to it.

 

Yes, I saw a few videos regarding this. He's right- it's a fun camera and I wish Panasonic would update it. The best part of it is the flip-up screen. Unfortunately, the worst part about it is the moiré in 1080p and overheating in 4k at 5 minute or less. As a travel camera or B-cam, it's a great choice IMO.

What I find amazing is the fact that many of the newer small cameras cannot be kept in-stock; yet, we see nothing from Panasonic who IMO is the leader in know-how for this category of camera. I'm not sure if their heads are stuck in the sand or just bad forward thinking. In any case, it isn't good. Hope they turn it around soon.

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

I'm not sure if it was brought up before in this thread, but apparently Yaroslav got some new old stock of the Z Cam E1.

https://www.soltyscameras.com/product-page/z-cam-e1

I really didn't like mine at all when I had it (and I was so pleasantly surprised by the E2), but as far as I know, it is still the smallest 4K ILC camera ever produced.  If you do get, avoid the log profile.

[John Matthews]

5 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I'm not sure if it was brought up before in this thread, but apparently Yaroslav got some new old stock of the Z Cam E1.

https://www.soltyscameras.com/product-page/z-cam-e1

I really didn't like mine at all when I had it (and I was so pleasantly surprised by the E2), but as far as I know, it is still the smallest 4K ILC camera ever produced.  If you do get, avoid the log profile.

Yes, we have talked about it. I'm not sure if it should be disqualified due to a lack of a proper shutter for photos.

[sanveer]

2 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I'm not sure if it was brought up before in this thread, but apparently Yaroslav got some new old stock of the Z Cam E1.

https://www.soltyscameras.com/product-page/z-cam-e1

I really didn't like mine at all when I had it (and I was so pleasantly surprised by the E2), but as far as I know, it is still the smallest 4K ILC camera ever produced.  If you do get, avoid the log profile.

Interestingly, it appears to have a 16MP sensor, which appears similar ( or identical?) to the one on the GX85 and a host of other Panasonic ILCs. Do you think the GX85 sensor can also do 720p @ 120 fps and other frame rates, but didn't due to process and other limitations?

Don't go by the mentioned bitrates, because they may be solely on ZCam E1. 

[kye]

Just window shopping for tiny cameras (tiny-er than the GX85) and realised I don't really care that much about the size of the camera with the lens turned off, I care about the size when I'm waving it around actually shooting footage.

Comparing the LX10 with GX850+12-32mm kit lens, I think the LX10 might be longer??

The zoom ratio is only 3.0 compared to 2.66 for the 12-32, so they're almost identical lenses too.

Obviously, it's smaller when closed:

BUT, the LX10 lens really really extends (at least for some of its zoom range)...

and (as far as I can tell) the 12-32 doesn't extend nearly as much?  These are the best images I could find of the lens extended:

Also, the 14-42 doesn't look much larger either:

Does anyone have all these bits and can give a more definite answer?

If the incognito factor is important then it might be that the GX850 and 12-32mm might be better.

In fact, the LX10 might not even have much of size advantage over the GX85 with the 12-32 lens, when both are fully extended...  I got a direct size comparison image and superimposed the best quality images of the two lenses extended that I could fine (the lens images are transparent so you can see the overlays - the size match is almost perfect on both).

Obviously lens extension isn't everything, but in use it's potentially a factor.  Members of the public are aware that the longer the lens the more zoomed it is, so anyone who is uncomfortable with the idea of being filmed from a distance might really notice such a thing.