Nikon Z6III is coming.. as mini Z8

[Danyyyel]

9 minutes ago, bjohn said:

Right, but that's why he tested with and without NR. Sony applies NR in-camera and you can't remove it, so he added some NR in Resolve to mimic what Sony was doing for a more fair comparison. But he showed both the super-high Imatest result plus the "real world" lower actual DR you'd get on the Z6iii.

Yes I understand he did balance it, which is good, but as shown by the CineD test I posted you can go from the worst like what people thought of the Z9 to best in class, to even best in the country as with the Burano. 

[John Matthews]

34 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

I am seeing the price of the Zf already quite discounted at 2100 Euro (Some site I don't know even have it at 1700 Euro). I don't know if it is sale period or normal price now, because it is 350 euro below launched price. My guess is that Nikon is putting high launch prices for early buyers and true prices tend to come 6 month/1 year after launch. So it depends on each and everyone patience, as true price tend to settle after these first months.

Yes, I'm sure you would. I was only referring to the MSRP. It's the natural cycle of things. Again, I'm sure they have their reasons, but it still feel like Europeans are getting screwed due to the US prices. Don't worry, I feel the same about Apple. It just feels a little like highway robbery, especially when you know other manufacturers don't do it. In Apple's case, no one else makes them. The worst part is when you realize you can fly to NYC, buy the camera, and fly back for the same cost. Something is off.

[kye]

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

Nice shots. Colors look nice too. The whole time I was watching scared that she'd fall. I genuinely surprised she never wore a helmet. She wiped out pretty good a couple of times (of the times that made it into the final edit).

Skateboarders don't care about helmets, or safety of any kind whatsoever.

See the below video, which they spiced up with slow-motion........ and explosives.

 

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

Yep, and this is why I said to go and watch latitude test on CineD. Before the CineD lab test I did not understand why people were saying Canon was faking its DR by using NR on its RAW files, now I know. Imatest is a synthetic test, you just have to apply a little NR on your footage and it might think the shadows are super clean. Look at Gerald's test of the Z8 h265 test, the thing is he got like an extraordinary number that he found out was due to extra NR on the z8 h265 footage and at the start of the file, that the imatest was fooled.

And this is why one shouldn't get hung up on imatest

The whole point of RAW for me is that the RAW sensor data is exposed in the final image, including grain texture and shadow noise.

Also this seemingly standard method in tests of exposing CMOS sensors for highlights, then ramping up the blacks - think about the impact that has on colour in the mids and tonality in the shadows. Yes you are showing what kind of dynamic range is possible but in creative terms it is a step back.

And when you start applying NR to the shadows in some misguided uncreative attempt to squeeze out that last 0.5 stops of dynamic range, you may as well shoot H.265

It would be interesting to take the uncompressed Cinema DNG cameras... Blackmagic Pocket 4K original firmware, Sigma Fp-L, 5D Mark III Magic Lantern, Digital Bolex and compare the image aesthetically to N-RAW and ProRes RAW, in terms of how close one or the other looks to film.

And film remains the gold standard for atmosphere, warts and all.

I always look at images and not so much the numbers especially when we are talking less than 1 stop differences between cameras.

Unless it is a case of Alexa 35 which is far ahead of everything else.

[IronFilm]

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I am not referencing those with just $400 but the ones with reasonable money to spend, to whom 3000 euros just cannot be justified for just one single camera that does nothing really special compared to the 6 year old original model for stills. This is high-end Apple laptop pricing territory.

Also it is not within reach of those with a spare disposable $2k to upgrade from their old DSLR either.

So as a 'mid-range' camera I really just think it is too expensive.

I'd be interested to see how that $2500 market holds up.

It is either going to cannibalise the high-end and pros will buy the Z6 III, or it will suffocate the mid-range and people will just get second hand stuff instead.

It isn't a sustainable strategy. Mid range should be $2k max.

Even if I'm spending $1K to $1.5K (so staying very comfortably under the $2K max), I think I'd still struggle to go for any modern day mirrorless camera if I was starting again from scratch with only an interest photography. (as that's where mirrorless is strongest: videography) 

A person could jump on eBay right now and buy a Nikon D850 for just US$1.2K, what more does a hobbyist photographer really need  if starting out? 

I agree that the current brand new prices of FF mirrorless today feel kinda overpriced for photographers, once you compare them against the glut of cheap secondhand DSLRs we're spoiled with.

So getting a new FF mirrorless is very much so a luxury purchase for photos.

Unless... I'm wanting compact small size. (as I'll admit all DSLRs are rather poor at that) But then am I really going with a FF mirrorless? Or am I going for an APS-C or even MFT mirrorless? 

  

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The currency has also taken a hit vs the USD but the yen I believe is quite weak?

That's another factor to also explain some of the pricing difference between brands. 

They might be each taking different currency hedging approaches, or not doing any hedging at all. 

 

[IronFilm]

  

4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

* I've seen an awful lot of European people queuing at the tax free counter to buy cameras in Japan over the years but, curiously, never seen anyone rocking up to the Customs counter at European airports on the way back to declare their purchases.

It is because European Customs Officers are so incredibly efficient and fast, that is why you never ever see a queue forming. 

 

[BTM_Pix]

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Which is a scenario I have considered, ie, book a 2 week bucket list trip to Japan and upon arrival, buy the new camera, bin the packaging, shoot the shit out of it, come home.

The key to this approach is to maximise the savings to offset the cost of the trip to Japan so you get together a massive and definitive list of everything camera and lens wise that you will ever, ever, ever need and buy it in one go.

It has to be all the stuff you'll ever need though so you won't ever have to buy anything else ever again in your photographic career.

I've done that on fourteen different occasions now.

[IronFilm]

I'm sure on the 15th time @BTM_Pixyou'll finally get it done right. 

[Beritar]

5 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

N-RAW isn't unprocessed really.

https://www.eoshd.com/news/is-n-raw-real-raw-nikon-z9-under-the-spotlight-at-eoshd/

I found it a bit underwhelming vs the best H.265 10bit.

Given the fact the file sizes are so enormous you would think the benefits would be much larger, especially when pushing the image around as much as I did in resolve.

Too bad, do you think Proresraw on the Z6III is better ?

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Unless... I'm wanting compact small size. (as I'll admit all DSLRs are rather poor at that) But then am I really going with a FF mirrorless? Or am I going for an APS-C or even MFT mirrorless? 

I don't think many people starting out are considering DSLRs over mirrorless.

The stuff I see, even a bargain like a $1k D850 just seems to sit on the store shelves.

The Z6 III isn't for people starting out anyway, it is aimed at existing Nikon DSLR users and owners of the Z6, and Z6 II... Plus they are hopeful a bunch of people might switch from other manufacturers, but it would be a brave beginner who drops $2.5k on their first camera body and a further $3k on lenses.

So the $1500-2000 market and beginner market are two very different things.

I am talking about the $1500-2000 range of enthusiasts who aren't beginners.

The Z6 III is priced about $1000 too high for them especially in the UK.

They have a massive range of mirrorless cameras to choose from on the used camera market.

X-H2, X-H2S, GH6, A7 IV, A7S II, A7R II, A7R III, A7C, Z6 II, there's loads...

Over at WEX they even have a special Z6 II Ukraine War Edition:

... It's sponsored by Leica, with pretty Sony crayon mode dial colours.

Saw a GFX 50S for £1200 the other day, so if we take video out of the equation for these people... And realise they can go medium format 50 megapixel for that price... the Z6 III doesn't even come into their thinking at all. Why pay double the price for half the image quality?

[PannySVHS]

I saw a used S5 for 650EU. Now, that is tons of camera for the buck. It's like a mini Varicam and a Nikon 750D in one solid and ergonomic body. The 150mbit codec is amazing. My suggestion for serious video and photo starters, if much cheaper is needed, a used G85. I experienced the exitement of an enthusiastic starter doing his first shortfilm three months ago. He felt blown away by the image quality of a G85. It reminded me of my first shots with my G6. I didnt care too much for other cameras for a while. Unfortunately that started to change two years later.

The Nikon Z6III is indeed not a beginners camera but very compelling nevertheless for full frame 4k60 raw and prores fans. The skating video which kye posted looks fantastic in the outside parts, high end cine cam look. Interviews looked ok with dubious quality of the highlights imo.

[Danyyyel]

So does Niko support LUT or not. I saw reference to th functionality that you can create your own look in Nx studio, but now it is referred to lut???

https://nikonrumors.com/2024/06/18/nikon-nx-studio-1-7-0-and-n-log-3d-lut-1-07-released-with-support-for-the-z6-iii.aspx/

[IronFilm]

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

... It's sponsored by Leica, with pretty Sony crayon mode dial colours.

That's wild! Didn't think Nikon and Leica would be collaborating. 

Wouldn't it make more sense to do a S5 like this than a Z6?? At least Panasonic and Lecia have a long history of working together 

8 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

I experienced the exitement of an enthusiastic starter doing his first shortfilm three months ago. He felt blown away by the image quality of a G85.

Awww.... that's cute

[BTM_Pix]

20 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

So you get a Z8 and a free £226 towards the Tokyo flight.

Speaking of Tokyo, MapCamera have opened up reservations for the Z6iii this morning.

The base price of ¥356,400 equates to a “don’t stop at that counter at the airport” price of £1815.00

The “stop at the counter price” would therefore be £2170.00

Depending on your preference for that counter at the airport, that is either a £984(35%) or £629(22.5%) saving on the UK price of £2799.

 

 

[PannySVHS]

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

 

Awww.... that's cute

This demands a hugging emoji!🤗

[D Verco]

Wow. The price of these is going to plummet on the grey market 

[ND64]

IBIS comparison with S9

 

[Danyyyel]

 

[ND64]

If all you need is 4k24p raw, the bitrate is only 340mbs

[zlfan]

35 minutes ago, Eric Calabros said:

If all you need is 4k24p raw, the bitrate is only 340mbs

this is about 40 MB/s. about the same as redcode 42. compression ratio is about 8. workable but not the best quality.