Canon 5D Mark IV "will be 1080p" with Canon LOG

[ntblowz]

No surprise really, if they offer 4K on 5DIV the C100 MK II will loss a lot more potential customers.. it's PROFIT MARGIN first for Canon nowadays.

[nazdar]

Even RED is now loosing numbers of their enthusiast, latest development with prices moving to the segment of way more expensive Alexa galaxy. Lots of Redfans is not interested in another hype upgrade only to get same old sensor with half stop of DR more, need to buy all new expensive modules, batteries and memory cards again. Only plus is that ProRes on board, but for what price. RED made lots of money on their enthusiasts and now is shifting away to the top pro level category. Here you have that damned ProRes, but you have to pay way more.

Btw Canon is also manufacturer of 4K displays

[Oliver Daniel]

It's probably going to do really nice 1080p video.

4k is almost bloody useless if the colours are crap and the dynamic range is poor. 

[bertzie]

No surprise really, if they offer 4K on 5DIV the C100 MK II will loss a lot more potential customers.. it's PROFIT MARGIN first for Canon nowadays.

​When has any for-profit company ever in the history of capitalism ever put customer desires over profits?

[QMedia]

Canon seems hopelessly lost in a market segment that SHOULD matter to them. Indie filmmakers can and do have incredible talent, but often not incredible bank accounts. They don't want consumer toys but real tools they can work with.

I felt the atmosphere at NAB between Canon's booth and Blackmagic Design's was a bit of a metaphor. Canon's was full of suits glad handing each other. BD's was very hands on with people really wanting to improve their craft.

The URSA mini  looks very promising. Solid and about half the size of the URSA.

 

 

[jcs]

If the 5D4 is truly full resolution 1080p (as good as the A7S), and has dual pixels with solid autofocus on EF lenses, comes close to the A7S in low light / sensitivity & similar or better DR, similar or better slomo (60p full resolution at 1080p), a crop mode similar to A7S (and perhaps more sizes), audio preamps as good or better than A7S, then it will be a great replacement for the current A7S (video) + 5D3 (stills) package. 10-bit 422 H.264 would be a bonus to go along with log (why not if they're using 4K to delineate product lines?). 

[ebo]

i paid in 2014, 10000,-- euro for the Canon 1D C, so for me it would be very soon if Canon came with a new 4K DSLR in the price range of euro 3000,-- think that there are more than enough cheaper 4K alternatives from other brands.

 

[Eduardo Portas]

I respect different points of view regarding Canon's XC10.

It's unappealing for most pro creators with artistic qualities, like majority of people who read this site.

However, it seems like a good tool IF you practice journalism, where pixel quality comes only after taking the shot itself.

At least that's been my experience in journalism.

Sure there are great photographers and videographers around me who strive to combine both journalism and art,

but these are few and generally very skilled. The vast majority of their jobs assignments en up as "functional"--not artistic--material.

So yes, from a journalist's point of view the XC10 seems attractive because:

a) It offers the best ergonomics in the business as a run-and-gun instrument

b ) It's future-proofed with its 4K capability

c) It won't cost media outlets huge amounts of cash when bought in large quantities for the media desk

(less or just as expensive as a GH4 with a good lens, but with better ergonomics)

d) It's fixed-lens gives the journalist and media outlets themselves one less thing to worry about 

e) It's a serviceable tool built for functional results, not ultra high quality photographs and video 

I can see lots of reporters carrying this thing around as good solution for information-gathering.

Having said that, I would not pay the announced cost for a glorified bridge-cam.

Yet the Canon brand is the most attractive....

 

[Andrew Reid]

Yes it's functional.

EOSHD is more about the artistic / cinematic side where a workflow is a labour of love that takes months and a shoot is Kubrick like with 100 takes until the magic is captured.

I have little-to-no interest in the functional side. I have my shot getters... FZ1000 for example. Don't need the XC10.

That's just my opinion though. Your post Eduardo is pretty bang on in describing the other side of the coin.

EOSHD as a blog is my opinion, it's only my perspective and others who are looking for the same tool.

The XC10 is a bit of a fob-off by Canon because they are aiming at enthusiasts not just journalists and implying enthusiasts will love it... ahem... most won't.

[Andrew Reid]

I felt the atmosphere at NAB between Canon's booth and Blackmagic Design's was a bit of a metaphor. Canon's was full of suits glad handing each other. BD's was very hands on with people really wanting to improve their craft.

​That's exactly what I noticed at Photokina as well.

All the actual customers are at Blackmagic.

All the suits were over at Canon.

[Oliver Daniel]

​That's exactly what I noticed at Photokina as well.

All the actual customers are at Blackmagic.

All the suits were over at Canon.

​

I'm putting serious thought into investing my Sony FS7 savings into Blackmagic (URSA Mini, Micro Camera & Video Assist). They just seem by far the most innovative & best value company who listen to their users. They are delivering some amazing tools for little cost - and it will only get better. I've had my eye on the FS7 but i must admit I much, much prefer the "feel" behind the Blackmagic image (prefer the Cinema Camera/Pocket). 

i think those sticking to DSLRs should just forget Canon for now - there are plenty more tools elsewhere to tell stories. 

[Nick Hughes]

​

I'm putting serious thought into investing my Sony FS7 savings into Blackmagic (URSA Mini, Micro Camera & Video Assist). They just seem by far the most innovative & best value company who listen to their users. They are delivering some amazing tools for little cost - and it will only get better. I've had my eye on the FS7 but i must admit I much, much prefer the "feel" behind the Blackmagic image (prefer the Cinema Camera/Pocket). 

i think those sticking to DSLRs should just forget Canon for now - there are plenty more tools elsewhere to tell stories. 

​Just have to wait until people actually have their hands on it so we can find those fun BM 'quirks' that always seem to pop up. Though I will say I haven't heard too much negativity about the URSA beyond the sheer size of it. I suppose the low-light limitations still exist, so let's hope the new sensor kicks it up a few notches.

[Jimmy]

re: XC10

Is no one else seeing creative possibilities?

If you want to strap a "cheap" 4K camera onto drone, car, gimbal (or pool cue!) what are the options, right now? Especially if you need good image, AF and IS. NX1 is pretty heavy, GH4 doesn't have any IS or good AF... Neither have 12 stops (V-log might change that).

The idea that it is just some badly thought out ENG camera leaves me scratching my head a bit.... It is clearly meant to be a bigger GoPro/crash cam, for people who care about image quality.

[AaronChicago]

​

I'm putting serious thought into investing my Sony FS7 savings into Blackmagic (URSA Mini, Micro Camera & Video Assist). They just seem by far the most innovative & best value company who listen to their users. They are delivering some amazing tools for little cost - and it will only get better. I've had my eye on the FS7 but i must admit I much, much prefer the "feel" behind the Blackmagic image (prefer the Cinema Camera/Pocket). 

i think those sticking to DSLRs should just forget Canon for now - there are plenty more tools elsewhere to tell stories. 

​I still think other than the weight, the 4.7k Ursa is the best deal. It already comes with add-ons that cost quite a bit extra for the Mini. Double the frame rates. Plus you'd be able to upgrade easily in the future when new sensors are announced.

[Eduardo Portas]

EOSHD as a blog is my opinion, it's only my perspective and others who are looking for the same tool.

The XC10 is a bit of a fob-off by Canon because they are aiming at enthusiasts not just journalists and implying enthusiasts will love it... ahem... most won't.

​

And a very interesting opinion it is, Andrew. Congrats on your site.

I agree that the XC10 is not attractive for enthusiasts. There are other tools that do the job for much less money.

But, it does have that Canon allure, at least in journalistic terms. And if pro journos use it then maybe Canon

hopes it can bring in some cash in the secondary enthusiast market, just as their DSLRs already do? 

We'll see! Cheers.

 

[animan]

Guys the rep who said this could well be the same one who said that the XC10 has a 1 stop ND filter.. 

 

[QMedia]

​

I'm putting serious thought into investing my Sony FS7 savings into Blackmagic (URSA Mini, Micro Camera & Video Assist). They just seem by far the most innovative & best value company who listen to their users. They are delivering some amazing tools for little cost - and it will only get better. I've had my eye on the FS7 but i must admit I much, much prefer the "feel" behind the Blackmagic image (prefer the Cinema Camera/Pocket). 

i think those sticking to DSLRs should just forget Canon for now - there are plenty more tools elsewhere to tell stories. 

I had some hands on with the URSA mini at NAB. Very impressive build quality, and built in monitor. Easy to get accurate focus. I was told the new sensor will do ISO 1600, while the old sensor is ISO 800. While no Sony A7s, the 15 stops of DR can be put to good use in Resolve. Resolve 12 is now a full fledged editor with multicam, and audio mixing. I am hopeful with the direction Blackmagic is heading.

 

[jax_rox]

oh as well, the new ursa view finder is also horrible, it looked really green, but i was told it was a demo model, but i went around to each one and they all had different shade of green tint but all looking at the exact same thing with the same settings. i kept asking why doesnt this match the monitor on the camera and i kept getting the same answer, oh, this is not the production model, hopefully we fix that.

​IMO, this just proves that the segment of the market that Blackmagic sell into care more about specs on paper, than about how the camera actually works - or looks (the image)...

For years critics complained that MS was walking away from profits by protecting the old structure and not porting apps to iOS/OSX. As Balmer departed it seems they began to accept reality and restructured. 

There were tons of critics of the iPad claiming that Apple were risking canniballizing their desktops and laptops with such products. To some extent it is true that overall desktop sales have taken a hit, but it allowed Apple to own the tablet market, and because of their focus on having products work as a family and not actually compete, they have increased desktop sales where PC desktops have slipped. 

​Not sure what you mean by the 'village idiot' version of Office - Microsoft had a dedicated team for porting their software to Mac. The Mac versions of Office were pretty full featured - and were released about every 4 years or so... Unless you're talking way back before 2004...

In fact - Office '08 to Office '11 was only three years; and it only really took them ~3 years from that to the current ubiquitous cloud computing - same version available for all version that they're currently on.

Also in terms of the iPad - I only ever recall people questioning what the point of the iPad was. I don't recall too many people assuming this was the cannibalisation of Apple's other computing products..

 

But they seem to be afraid that if the 5d is in any way too good that their other products will burst into flames. If you can build a 5d that steals your higher end product business then you should do so. Be the best. And then redesign the higher end products to do what the DSL form factor cannot. If not someone else will do it for you....Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, etc. It is frustrating to feel that Canon is listening to the market and paying attention to the advances made by their competition. So much unrealized potential.  

I love my 5dmkiii for stills. I bought it when it first came out and am still happy with it after 100K shots. But for video, it is more work than I care to go through. Canon could easily provided firmware updates to best ML. By not doing so they smugly project that they are happy with their current product tiers, self imposed limitations and all, as they return to their game rooms to play Pong and dance to The The in their skinny piano ties.  It makes me wonder if they have yet started thinking about fixing the Y2K bug in their main frames.

 

The problem is - Canon is a camera business. It's not a software and hardware business that makes cameras on the side - like Blackmagic. For Blackmagic, making low cost cameras is, in a way, a way to push sales of their other hardware and their software. Blackmagic are not making low cost cameras as a crusade for those who can't afford better...

With the C(x)00 series - they're popular cameras. A lot of people have invested a lot of money into those systems. And the reality is - they're still selling, and selling for their RRP. 

Those who use the 5D for video are a comparatively small sectino of the market compared to those who use the 5D for stills, or use a C(x)00 camera for video. When they can charge $15,000 for a cinema camera, why would they build similar features into a camera that costs 1/5th the price? If people are paying for it, why would you give them a reason to stop?

And what incentive do they have to be 'the best' in an enthusiast video market that typically don't have a lot of cash to begin with? Is the incentive to win a d**k measuring competition with Panasonic and Sony? Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but I find it difficult to believe that the advent of the GH4 and A7s have hurt Canons sales for their 5D's or C(x)00 cameras much at all..

Canon seems hopelessly lost in a market segment that SHOULD matter to them. Indie filmmakers can and do have incredible talent, but often not incredible bank accounts. They don't want consumer toys but real tools they can work with.

​I don't understand - why should Canon care about a tiny segment of the market that want the same features as their pro cameras but can't afford them..? Because some of them are talented...? 

​I'm putting serious thought into investing my Sony FS7 savings into Blackmagic (URSA Mini, Micro Camera & Video Assist). They just seem by far the most innovative & best value company who listen to their users. They are delivering some amazing tools for little cost - and it will only get better. I've had my eye on the FS7 but i must admit I much, much prefer the "feel" behind the Blackmagic image (prefer the Cinema Camera/Pocket). 

i think those sticking to DSLRs should just forget Canon for now - there are plenty more tools elsewhere to tell stories. 

Invest in something you know you're going to be able to pay off over the next 12 months. If you can't get at least enough work to pay it off on top of your other living expenses, then buying a serious camera is not worth it these days.

It used to be you'd buy a camera you could pay off within 18 months, and it would be superseded. These days, at the lower end of the market (i.e. the <$12,000) it's more like cameras are being superseded with new and better models from all manufacturers (including he same manufacturer) every 6 months or so..

9 months ago I was at Cinegear and everyone was talking about the URSA which was about to ship in a month or two... 6ish months after it starts shipping, BMD bring out a better camera in a better body for cheaper...

[QMedia]

​IMO, this just proves that the segment of the market that Blackmagic sell into care more about specs on paper, than about how the camera actually works - or looks (the image)...​

...The problem is - Canon is a camera business. It's not a software and hardware business that makes cameras on the side - like Blackmagic. For Blackmagic, making low cost cameras is, in a way, a way to push sales of their other hardware and their software. Blackmagic are not making low cost cameras as a crusade for those who can't afford better...

...Those who use the 5D for video are a comparatively small sectino of the market compared to those who use the 5D for stills, or use a C(x)00 camera for video. When they can charge $15,000 for a cinema camera, why would they build similar features into a camera that costs 1/5th the price? If people are paying for it, why would you give them a reason to stop?

...Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but I find it difficult to believe that the advent of the GH4 and A7s have hurt Canons sales for their 5D's or C(x)00 cameras much at all..

...​I don't understand - why should Canon care about a tiny segment of the market that want the same features as their pro cameras but can't afford them..? Because some of them are talented...? 

 

9 months ago I was at Cinegear and everyone was talking about the URSA which was about to ship in a month or two... 6ish months after it starts shipping, BMD bring out a better camera in a better body for cheaper...

Where to start? First off, it only proves their viewfinder is a prototype...wait for the production model before you pass judgement.

So using your logic, Blackmagic spends millions designing and marketing their cameras, so they can then hook you in and give you a copy of Resolve and Fusion for free?

I agree canon sells way more 5D's for stills than for video. But don't kid yourself. If you think the GH4, A7s, and NX1 have not cut into 5D's, sold for video use and C100 sales, you best think again.

Canon and you really don't seem to understand. If your competitors offer more for less, you will loose market share. If you keep it up very long, your own customers jump ship. Once a customer feels screwed over, they are gone, usually for a long time. You can't ride on branding forever.

Why do you think the URSA had a sensor you could upgrade? If you look at the list of cameras with a sensor upgrade option, you will find it to be very short.

[leeys]

 I love how all the newbies are rushing here to defend Canon.