IronFilm Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 No. Won't happen. Only new ones which will get shipped this year is the ones that just got announced at NAB (fingers crossed). If you want a BMPCC v2, then get the BMMCC with a BMD VA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbp Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 ^ While it's a fine alternative, I wouldn't consider it a BMPCC v2. The monitor loses the whole low profile usage of the pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenEricson Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 ^ While it's a fine alternative, I wouldn't consider it a BMPCC v2. The monitor loses the whole low profile usage of the pocket. Yes, but global shutter and 60p add quite a bit. Also paired with a monitor like the SmallHD 502, that setup is tiny. Axel and IronFilm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Yes, but global shutter and 60p add quite a bit. Also paired with a monitor like the SmallHD 502, that setup is tiny.Let's wait if the biggest drawback - *moire* - has been taken care of in this camera. The rolling shutter is not that prominent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenEricson Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Let's wait if the biggest drawback - *moire* - has been taken care of in this camera. The rolling shutter is not that prominThe biggest drawback for me was definitely the lack of 60p… Moire is only a problem in certain situations, like when using the metabones adapter in raw. They make a 300 dollar filter that supposedly works great. Adding 60p makes this camera a lot more well rounded... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 The biggest drawback for me was definitely the lack of 60p…Certainly you mean for slomos. Because for someone who is after a clean, 'Hobbit'-like look, the Pocket is clearly the wrong choice. As a workaround for missing 60p, you can use 30p with short exposure times and process the footage with Twixtor. Being a cinema lover since my early childhood, I also love the dirty slomo ('trailer slomo') of repeated frames. Use it very often in my wedding videos. I almost always manipulate real time, but I'm not much bothered by technical imperfections of these obvious effects. Nothing is more boring than a perfect slomo.Then, just imagine, you bought the BMMCC with a BMD VA to get 60p, and BM gives us 60p for the Pocket in a FW upgrade, and be it only for ProRes LT. Not completely impossible, we've seen them answering so many wishes of customers in the past.Moire is only a problem in certain situations, like when using the metabones adapter in raw. They make a 300 dollar filter that supposedly works great. Okay, but some use the SB always or almost always. And raw theoretically is the better codec, allows much more in post. The filter is still an option for me. On the other hand, I try to save money for the Ursa mini, probably as a christmas surprise, having gotten used to the BM promises ... JazzBox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqm Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Certainly you mean for slomos. Because for someone who is after a clean, 'Hobbit'-like look, the Pocket is clearly the wrong choice. As a workaround for missing 60p, you can use 30p with short exposure times and process the footage with Twixtor. Being a cinema lover since my early childhood, I also love the dirty slomo ('trailer slomo') of repeated frames. Use it very often in my wedding videos. I almost always manipulate real time, but I'm not much bothered by technical imperfections of these obvious effects. Nothing is more boring than a perfect slomo.Then, just imagine, you bought the BMMCC with a BMD VA to get 60p, and BM gives us 60p for the Pocket in a FW upgrade, and be it only for ProRes LT. Not completely impossible, we've seen them answering so many wishes of customers in the past.Okay, but some use the SB always or almost always. And raw theoretically is the better codec, allows much more in post. The filter is still an option for me. On the other hand, I try to save money for the Ursa mini, probably as a christmas surprise, having gotten used to the BM promises ... Can you explain the 30p slowmo with twixtor? do you pull it down to 50% speed?Do you have an example for a trailer that looks like this ?Thank´s in advanced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utsira Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I'm also a fan of step-printed slomo (repeated frames). Wong Kar Wai used to use it a lot.a couple of people on this thread have said that BMPCC moire is worse when recording in raw rather than prores, is this true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 First of all, let's see what happens with the excellent Twixtor slomos if you have motion blur (influenced by exposure time, the longer, the more blur) in the image, here. You can only slow down to exactly the degree matching the motion blur of a high speed recording with that frame rate, no more. Let's do the maths. A 180° shutter with the Pocket is a perfectly proportional motion blur. 11,25° means 25% motion blur. So you can speed up 4 times (400% duration, 25% speed). If you take 30 fps for 24 fps, you add another 20% (of 400), that means 480% are theoretically possible, equalling ~120 fps.Note, that Twixtor interpolates motion phases as well as appropriate motion blur (and it does so with very little ghosting, like AAE or other apps, left to their own devices). So to be on the safe side, you must not allow any motion blur in the recording. Like with HFR-slomos, this means shorter exposure times. For example, for 11,25° you need sixteen times as much light to expose correctly.The second fact is, that there are movements so fast that you simply can't stop motion blur (at least not with the Pocket, you'd need the equivalent of 1/2000, better 1/5000 shutter), i.e. the dog's ears at 17" here. If there is motion blur (any kind of blur), Twixtor will screw it. Water, on the other hand, is a lesser problem, see 21" in the same clip.Last thought on the subject: you do slomos for a reason, or you don't do them at all. If you know in advance that you need to accentuate a certain gesture with slow motion, you plan that in advance. Film is all about manipulating time, not about real time. So you need Twixtor. Because, even if you do all your shots in 60p, just in case you want to time-remap them later, you need to do it in too small a shutter to allow natural motion blur for 24p. You have to post-process these to add blur. EOSHD member Brandon Li (b.k.a. Rungunshoot) wrote a tutorial about that. sqm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 a couple of people on this thread have said that BMPCC moire is worse when recording in raw rather than prores, is this true?In short: yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqm Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Thank Axel, great explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damphousse Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 The biggest drawback for me was definitely the lack of 60p… Moire is only a problem in certain situations, like when using the metabones adapter in raw. They make a 300 dollar filter that supposedly works great. The problem isn't just moire. It's moire, aliasing, and false color artifacts of which there are plenty. With or without a speedbooster if you use a modern sharp wide angle lens and stop down to f/5.6 or f/8 you will see issues particularly in landscape shots. I love the camera but you can't deny it is not as artifact free as some other options.The VAF-BMC-MFT is also $385 not $300. Probably more like $400+ with shipping... Not cheap.Global shutter on the new Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera is pretty awesome though. I really can't wait to see footage from that thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbp Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Twixtor works great in some situations and very poorly in others.Film a running dog and try to slow it down 50% with twixtor and it'll look like junk.Fast moving limbs (even with fast shutter speeds) do not work well.Still, it's better than nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafilm Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I would say no. 4K is the future, and the future is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenEricson Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 The VAF-BMC-MFT is also $385 not $300. Probably more like $400+ with shipping... Not cheap.Global shutter on the new Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera is pretty awesome though. I really can't wait to see footage from that thing. Yeah, but twixtor/the amount of time you will spend with processing will end up costing you a lot more than 400 bucks. I can't agree with any of the comments saying twixtor is a great alternative to 60p. Believe me, I know what twixtor is and use it regularly. 60p is just a lot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenEricson Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I would say no. 4K is the future, and the future is now.Pocket footage looks better than GH4K footage on vimeo... Good 1080 is much better than low quality 4k. JazzBox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Yeah, but twixtor/the amount of time you will spend with processing will end up costing you a lot more than 400 bucks. I can't agree with any of the comments saying twixtor is a great alternative to 60p. Believe me, I know what twixtor is and use it regularly. 60p is just a lot better.If you've got the choice. Of course. Surely for people who shoot skater videos or dogs shaking their ears. Twixtor is a crook. But if you know your foe, you can plan any dramatically justified slomo with it. The amount of time processing? How many slomo shots can a film have without feeling slow? And again, you can't just shoot everything with 60p for the odd slomo and then believe the stuff will look good @ 24p without considerable render time.Pocket footage looks better than GH4K footage on vimeo... Good 1080 is much better than low quality 4k. On 1080 devices, you can't see superior resolution (of original 4k), you can only see inferior (of 'not true' HD) resolution. There is an experience among us former cinema projectionists: one can distinguish 4k when sitting in row six or closer to the screen. Not because beyond this threshold the film looks much better, but on the contrary, you can still endure it in this size, whereas the 2k version is blown up too much. That's all there is to it. I had two 4k sources on my 1080 monitor, and though they apparently were good HD, they were no revelation. How could they be? It's all about size, and nothing else. JazzBox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damphousse Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Yeah, but twixtor/the amount of time you will spend with processing will end up costing you a lot more than 400 bucks. I can't agree with any of the comments saying twixtor is a great alternative to 60p. Believe me, I know what twixtor is and use it regularly. 60p is just a lot better.Not sure why you quoted me. I never said anything about using Twixtor. I've never used it so I can't recommend it to anyone. I don't have much use for slow-mo. It's nice but I would much rather have less moire/aliasing and color artifacts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronChicago Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Pocket footage looks better than GH4K footage on vimeo... Good 1080 is much better than low quality 4k. I have to disagree here. The pocket has a little bit more dynamic range, but that's it. There are so many problems with the V1 Pocket Camera. Moire and aliasing was awful. Black grids appearing when a light flare hits the side of the lens. Unpredictable. On top of that low light sucks, as well as battery life etc.I was denial for a few months but finally decided to get rid of my BMPCC and just buy another GH4.Now, the new Micro Cinema Camera might be different. I hope so. Waiting to see some footage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenEricson Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I have to disagree here. The pocket has a little bit more dynamic range, but that's it. There are so many problems with the V1 Pocket Camera. Moire and aliasing was awful. Black grids appearing when a light flare hits the side of the lens. Unpredictable. On top of that low light sucks, as well as battery life etc.I was denial for a few months but finally decided to get rid of my BMPCC and just buy another GH4.Now, the new Micro Cinema Camera might be different. I hope so. Waiting to see some footage.I agree that for an all around camera, the GH4 is better, but well shot pocket camera footage still blows away the GH4 footage. I was on the fence for a while, but glad I never sold that camera. I just can't get over how good well shot pocket footage looks.Did you own the speed booster, sigma 18-35? Edit: I remember you saying you bought a c100mk2. I would prefer a mk1 or mk2 over the gh4 for reliable commercial use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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