Blackmagic Micro Studio Camera 4k G2 - now shipping

[kye]

Does anyone have one of these?

If so, what do the buttons do in record mode?  

I'd assume that the Up and Down buttons adjust aperture, like the BMMCC does, but what does the SET button do?  Hopefully it triggers the AF?

I've read the manual and it doesn't mention it in there.

If the SET button doesn't trigger the AF, can it be configured to do so?

[Snowfun]

4 hours ago, kye said:

 

Does anyone have one of these?

If so, what do the buttons do in record mode?

 

I have one.

The buttons. They are designed simply to irritate me. They succeed. Far too small with little feedback. I’ve actually packed mine away to sell on but I might get chance to answer your question over the eeekend.

It’s such a super concept. But, at least for me, entirely unusable. I got a FX30 to “replace” it.

[kye]

22 hours ago, Snowfun said:

I have one.

The buttons. They are designed simply to irritate me. They succeed. Far too small with little feedback. I’ve actually packed mine away to sell on but I might get chance to answer your question over the eeekend.

It’s such a super concept. But, at least for me, entirely unusable. I got a FX30 to “replace” it.

I have the BMMCC, and completely agree about the buttons being irritating beyond words.

I set it up to be native ISO, 5600K WB, 23.976p, 180 shutter, and set the 12-35mm F2.8 lens to be at F2.8, and then there's no need to interact with the camera during use at all.  Everything is done via the vND or lens focus or zoom rings.

Occasionally I would run out of ND in very bright situations and so would stop down to F5.6, but that's a moment of fumbling every few hours of use, so not completely intolerable.

If you can check I'd appreciate it.  If there's no way to trigger an AF from the body then it makes it a non-AF camera or requires a pretty significant change to the rig.

If it does allow it, I think I'd probably put a small dot of superglue on the button so it's easy to feel which is the right one.

[BTM_Pix]

Here is a user thread of experiences with the camera.

It should be renamed “Dude, where’s my Bluetooth?”

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=190223

It’s just a nonsense why they didn’t include it.

I’m suspicious about why the gyro is in there and not the Bluetooth.

Currently, this is a sledgehammer to crack a nut solution to the AF activation issue.

Is it that the monitor BM want people to use with this is their own Video Assist as I’m guessing you can control the camera fully over that.

Again, another sledgehammer to crack a nut approach but it would also solve the issue of the camera not being able to play back it’s own clips…

 

[kye]

42 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Here is a user thread of experiences with the camera.

It should be renamed “Dude, where’s my Bluetooth?”

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=190223

It’s just a nonsense why they didn’t include it.

I’m suspicious about why the gyro is in there and not the Bluetooth.

Currently, this is a sledgehammer to crack a nut solution to the AF activation issue.

Is it that the monitor BM want people to use with this is their own Video Assist as I’m guessing you can control the camera fully over that.

Again, another sledgehammer to crack a nut approach but it would also solve the issue of the camera not being able to play back it’s own clips…

 

Interesting work-around but realistically for me, anything that makes me move from MFT glass will have to compete with me moving to any other camera system available, so it's a much larger investment for me and there's much stiffer competition involved.

If I got the Video Assist can that control the camera?
BM say "External Control:  LANC, SDI and HDMI start/stop and timecode run." on the tech specs page for the Video Assist, which doesn't seem like "full camera control for all BM cameras".

The camera page says:

"
External Control
Blackmagic Zoom Demand and Blackmagic Focus Demand for controlling your camera and lens from tripod handles.
Blackmagic Control Protocol over SDI and HDMI for external control when used with a compatible ATEM switcher with ATEM Software Control or ATEM Camera Control Panel. Includes control of some camera settings, focus, iris and zoom with compatible lenses, color corrector, tally and record start and stop to external media via USB expansion port.
Camera Control REST API over USB Ethernet for external control via HTTP when used with REST client applications such as Postman.
"

If you search for "Blackmagic Control Protocol" then you get no hits that also mention the Video Assist units, so it seems like the answer is no.
I've just emailed support asking so we'll see what they say.

The more I look at this, the more that I think the options for replacing the BMMCC are either:
1) don't
2) wait for BGH1 to get updated with a GH7 sensor in it
3) GH7
4) some other camera system entirely, likely with significantly larger lenses

[kye]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

I’m suspicious about why the gyro is in there and not the Bluetooth.

Perhaps even more strangely, you can only have gyro enabled when OIS is disabled on the lens.

[Sven]

Altcine has a free solution for the buttons (if you have a 3-d printer).
https://altcinecam.com/product/bmmcc-buttons/

I’ve put some bumper pads on the rec and power-button to locate without looking.
I also made a up/down-button on my own that I cut from rubber-material.

[kye]

12 minutes ago, Sven said:

Altcine has a free solution for the buttons (if you have a 3-d printer).
https://altcinecam.com/product/bmmcc-buttons/

I’ve put some bumper pads on the rec and power-button to locate without looking.
I also made a up/down-button on my own that I cut from rubber-material.

This looks like a great solution - you'd know by touch which button you're on.  Awesome stuff!

Pity it wasn't made more ergonomic from the factory.

[kye]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

Here is a user thread of experiences with the camera.

It should be renamed “Dude, where’s my Bluetooth?”

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=190223

Just read that thread, and yeah, it's a mixed bag.

It seems like a great studio camera, but in an attempt to cost-cut or simplify or <insert some reason or other here> they hamstrung its ability to replace the BMMCC and be used outside the studio.

Once again I'm reminded of the "industry blind spot" of camera size.  If it's small then it's unnecessarily crippled, and if it's not crippled then it's physically large, and if it's neither then it's old and people are sitting around saying "they don't make them like they used to".

[BTM_Pix]

44 minutes ago, kye said:

If I got the Video Assist can that control the camera?

Wrong presumption by me.

Dont get why you can’t control it over the SDI port let alone the HDMI port.

Its just weird choices they’ve made here.

46 minutes ago, kye said:

Camera Control REST API over USB Ethernet for external control via HTTP when used with REST client applications such as Postman

This is the only viable solution for external control.

I’m getting this camera next month for use with ATEM but there is development scope there for me to make an interface for external control by that method.

I’ll let you know.

[kye]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Wrong presumption by me.

Dont get why you can’t control it over the SDI port let alone the HDMI port.

Its just weird choices they’ve made here.

This is the only viable solution for external control.

I’m getting this camera next month for use with ATEM but there is development scope there for me to make an interface for external control by that method.

I’ll let you know.

It very much seems like segmentation in their product lines and development departments.

The studio team created a range of cameras designed to be remote controlled and mixed etc, and they setup (what looks like) a comprehensive control system through the ATEM products.

The "cameras that leave the building" team created the cinema camera range with screens and buttons, and the Video Assist range, and probably don't care their monitor doesn't have a way to control the hermit cameras from the other department.

Definitely seems like a lost opportunity to have one camera be useful in both scenarios though.

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, kye said:

and they setup (what looks like) a comprehensive control system through the ATEM products.

From the perspective of using it with an ATEM, this camera is stupendously good.

With the ATEM MINI ISO, you do your live stream with the cameras (and have full remote control over everything in it), and it saves your switching as a project file for Resolve.

Afterwards you load the file into Resolve, get your full switcher performance back (which you can then tweak) and automatically replace all the video elements with the 4K BRAW files from the cameras.

It is fantastic.

Imagine then not adding a Bluetooth capability to let the camera be operated remotely without the ATEM.

It’s not like you are then offering a free lunch as if you want all the extra capability that the ATEM offers then you need to buy an ATEM anyway.

[Snowfun]

On 9/21/2024 at 1:37 PM, BTM_Pix said:

fantastic

Not the word that sprang to mind when I tried to test it earlier. I tried. I really did. But it is utterly dreadful. I’m still not sure what the Menu, Set, Up & Down buttons do. Mainly because most of the time I didn’t know which, if any, button I pressed. No control via the VA. No idea about AF (that must be in the manual - that, of course, I didn’t read). I used an Olympus 12-45 Pro lens.

Yes, it is fantastic in the use scenario it was designed for (controlled and repeatable lighting etc.). But for fools such as I trying to use it outside it is the quintessential nightmare. Perhaps I grow increasingly intolerant with age and podgy finger syndrome. So it’s my fault not BMs. It’s back in its box awaiting MPB…

[kye]

BM support replied, and yeah, no camera control from Video Assist units.

"Unfortunately you cannot control any settings from the Video Assist units. The only controls a Video Assist supports is trigger recording. 

For the control functions you require, the options available are either through the ATEM control protocol, if you have one of our ATEM vision switchers, or you can use the REST API over USB Ethernet for external control via HTTP."

Seems like if it can trigger start/stop then a protocol is there, so it should be possible for them to do it, but with the PYXIS monitor being over USB and therefore a completely different implementation it seems unlikely they'll convert the VA units to control their Studio series.

I guess all hope for a tiny BM cine camera now lies in them releasing a new Micro model that uses the Pyxis monitor.  This would be an incredible option actually, as the monitor has full camera control, it's nice and bright, is compact and light-weight, and draws power from the camera so no more duplicate battery situation.

However, if you live in the real world then don't wait on a fantasy to come true.

[BTM_Pix]

On 9/20/2024 at 2:29 AM, kye said:

Does anyone have one of these?

I do now.

They REALLY want you to use the ATEM (which is what I have it for anyway) but if you buy the zoom demand add on then you can assign one of its buttons to trigger the AF.

However….

The P4K/6K have a beta firmware that uses the same Ethernet control now so I have developed two different controller options last week in preparation for getting the Micro Studio 4K G2.

Just tested them and they work well.

I’ll be doing a third type this week as I’m trying a different approach.

So I’ll personally be covered if I want to use it outside of the ATEM environment but I’m not convinced enough other people will be interested in doing the same for me to commercialise it.

It’s laughably small when put next to a regular P4K so it would be great for a lot of applications but the Bluetooth omission is definitely borderline kinky.

[kye]

On 10/6/2024 at 5:43 PM, BTM_Pix said:

I do now.

They REALLY want you to use the ATEM (which is what I have it for anyway) but if you buy the zoom demand add on then you can assign one of its buttons to trigger the AF.

However….

The P4K/6K have a beta firmware that uses the same Ethernet control now so I have developed two different controller options last week in preparation for getting the Micro Studio 4K G2.

Just tested them and they work well.

I’ll be doing a third type this week as I’m trying a different approach.

So I’ll personally be covered if I want to use it outside of the ATEM environment but I’m not convinced enough other people will be interested in doing the same for me to commercialise it.

It’s laughably small when put next to a regular P4K so it would be great for a lot of applications but the Bluetooth omission is definitely borderline kinky.

Yeah, it's definitely geared towards remote control.  For a run-n-gun setup, by the time you add the zoom demand, it's now larger than the P4K, which is truly saying something.

I genuinely don't know what I'll do for my next trip, although the likely option is to keep the same setup as there's nothing out there that is better without also having massive downsides or a massive cost associated with it.

[PannySVHS]

Could it be that the highlight rolloff on the og pocket is nicer than on the m2k? @kye  Btw, if you want to post some clips from your travels with your bmmcc, that would be tasty. I lovey your stills as you know, but no pressure. Doesn't need to be a montage. Single clips would be beautiful already.:)