Philip Bloom = The iPhone 15 log

[SRV1981]

 

[MrSMW]

Let’s see how long this post stays up.

I have started a countdown…

[SRV1981]

6 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Let’s see how long this post stays up.

I have started a countdown…

what does that mean, exactly? 

[kye]

14 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

what does that mean, exactly? 

Our host isn't the biggest fan of that particular person and has requested previously that his content not be shared.

[PannySVHS]

Dog lover vs kitten cat. 🙂

His colors looked great when 709 was ruling acquisition. Log made him logged out of color appeal. Too bad he took a harmless joke so badly. Something must have hit him much more than just a goofy joke about his kittens. Senstive state of mind he must have been in. His videos are still a joy to chill with.

[BTM_Pix]

On the whole, I thought that was really lacklustre to be honest and I'd say that, quite appropriately, he phoned that one in.

Ironically, that made it quite informative set against the slew of shock faced "OMG I can't believe I shot this cinematic masterpiece on a phone" videos on YouTube where a lot of production work has gone clearly in to them as this shows what you get out of one shooting in a more casual can't be arsed sort of manner.

I can think of far cheaper cameras than the £1299 the base model costs in the UK with which to get similarly meh results with that approach. 

It hasn't stopped the vast majority of commenters on it saying not only is the emperor not naked but he is wearing the finest of hand woven garments though, so I'm guessing they're seeing something different to me.

Filters seem to be this year's LUT packs don't they and this felt more about them than the camera.

 

 

[SRV1981]

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

On the whole, I thought that was really lacklustre to be honest and I'd say that, quite appropriately, he phoned that one in.

Ironically, that made it quite informative set against the slew of shock faced "OMG I can't believe I shot this cinematic masterpiece on a phone" videos on YouTube where a lot of production work has gone clearly in to them as this shows what you get out of one shooting in a more casual can't be arsed sort of manner.

I can think of far cheaper cameras than the £1299 the base model costs in the UK with which to get similarly meh results with that approach. 

It hasn't stopped the vast majority of commenters on it saying not only is the emperor not naked but he is wearing the finest of hand woven garments though, so I'm guessing they're seeing something different to me.

Filters seem to be this year's LUT packs don't they and this felt more about them than the camera.

 

 

What’s some of your favorite setups for mobile video that’s superior to iPhone log? I’m not yet so, curious. 

[BTM_Pix]

44 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

What’s some of your favorite setups for mobile video that’s superior to iPhone log? I’m not yet so, curious. 

For mobile video as in literally video on mobile phones or just mobile video as in a compact setup ?

If its the former then I've no real opinions as I don't use my iPhone for anything other than non-photo/video things aside from the odd snapshot. 

If its the latter then per my point about matching what, to me at least, is the average looking image in that particular video then for the same price as the 15 Pro Max we could probably be here all day listing options.

I've seen other videos where it has been exploited better but I don't see anything in and of itself which supports it being anything other than a step forward for iPhone filming.

 Phone cameras have always left me cold (particularly in terms of the price of these high end iPhones) but I did have a weather eye out for this one as it might have been the one to change that.

I realise I might be in a minority here but thus far it hasn't moved the needle that much for me.

I'm curious to know how many people on here have one of these yet and if it has changed anything for them in terms of being a camera replacement other than it just being a better camera than their previous one.

For example, has anyone who always used, say, an LX100 or an RX100 etc as a compact camera now completely dropped those and only use the 15 Pro Max ?

 

[SRV1981]

4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

For mobile video as in literally video on mobile phones or just mobile video as in a compact setup ?

If its the former then I've no real opinions as I don't use my iPhone for anything other than non-photo/video things aside from the odd snapshot. 

If its the latter then per my point about matching what, to me at least, is the average looking image in that particular video then for the same price as the 15 Pro Max we could probably be here all day listing options.

I've seen other videos where it has been exploited better but I don't see anything in and of itself which supports it being anything other than a step forward for iPhone filming.

 Phone cameras have always left me cold (particularly in terms of the price of these high end iPhones) but I did have a weather eye out for this one as it might have been the one to change that.

I realise I might be in a minority here but thus far it hasn't moved the needle that much for me.

I'm curious to know how many people on here have one of these yet and if it has changed anything for them in terms of being a camera replacement other than it just being a better camera than their previous one.

For example, has anyone who always used, say, an LX100 or an RX100 etc as a compact camera now completely dropped those and only use the 15 Pro Max ?

 

So no phone specially? Just dislike iPhone log? 
 

and are you staying you’d prefer the image of the RX100 over be iPhone 15 with log ?

[kye]

2 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

So no phone specially? Just dislike iPhone log? 
 

and are you staying you’d prefer the image of the RX100 over be iPhone 15 with log ?

I'm also curious to hear from @BTM_Pix on why this doesn't move the needle for him, however I can imagine a number of situations why it wouldn't be a revelation for folks.  For me it's a revolution in phone footage, but it's not a revolution in how I shoot.  Here's an outline of my thoughts:

• The iPhone 15 main camera creates a nice image, but is an 8K sensor with a fixed 3mm F1.78 lens, which with the crop factor of 8.0 is equivalent to a 24mm F14.2 lens.  This lens can employ a 2x crop and still be 4K, but beyond that is upsampling.
• The iPhone 15 other cameras have shown that unless provided enough light (basically they need direct daylight) they exhibit significant noise
• An RX100 has a 9-72mm F2.8-4.5 lens (with a crop factor of 2.667 is 24-192mm), which means there is no cropping below 4k when zooming beyond 48mm equivalent, and compared to the iPhones tele camera (5x 120mm f2.8) will keep its 4k resolution when zoomed beyond the 120mm iPhone camera
• Other fixed-zoom cameras like the LX100 will be similar to the RX100
• For me, when comparing the iPhone to the GX85, there is no competition..
  • The iPhone 15 has real log, is small, has PDAF and can instantly change between various focal lengths
    however..
  • The GX85 can be fit with F0.95 primes for low-light
  • ..has a tilt screen for overhead and low-angle shots
  • ..can use super-zooms like the 14-140mm
  • ..can be used with extreme telephotos like my Tamron 400mm F5.6 prime
  • etc

However, let's do something radical and assume we want to make a film, and assess things from the perspective of that end goal.

The iPhone allows you to shoot very fast, and provides good image quality at one or two focal lengths, and good image quality in a couple of others in direct daylight conditions.  

The main camera has zero background defocus when focusing further than 7ft away.   The iPhone 5x tele is equivalent to a 120mm F22 lens with a DoF of 1.76ft at a 10ft focus distance, but the RX100 has a DoF of 0.38ft at 10ft focus distance when it's at 192mm full zoom, and the iPhone 5x camera will be cropped to 2.4K from its 4K sensor at that focal length.

The iPhone lacks the ability to optically zoom to the right composition without cropping past 4K to lower resolutions.

The iPhone is a great camera if you want small size, to work fast, and have a "I get what I get" type of shooting style, but not many films would start with the final product in mind and work backwards to arrive at the conclusion that the iPhone, and all it's limitations, is the perfect tool for the job with the least compromises compared to other options.

My current setup that I will trial for my next holiday is this:

• iPhone 12 Mini
  for very low-key shots and for use when moving fast like going through airports etc where I need to think about other things but want to grab a shot here or there
• GX85 with 12-35mm F2.8 zoom (and iPhone wide camera for ultra-wides)
  for times when a small camera is ok and I need to shoot very quickly to get spontaneous moments
• GX85 with 7.5/2 + 17.5/0.95 + 50/1.2 primes
  for low-light times, such as sightseeing at night, going into caves / mines / etc
• P2K or M2K with 12-35mm F2.8 zoom
  for times when I can work slowly to expose and focus manually / slowly, there is good light, etc

If I bought an iPhone 15 Pro my iPhone shots would be improved, but it's not replacing the GX85 because it can't zoom or operate in low-light, and doesn't come close to the IQ of the P2K or M2K cameras which are closer to the IQ of an Alexa than the iPhone.

[MrSMW]

8 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I'm curious to know how many people on here have one of these yet and if it has changed anything for them in terms of being a camera replacement other than it just being a better camera than their previous one.

Not me. I use my phone all the time as my principal ‘EDC’ as they say, for photo and video, but NOT for anything serious.

For me there are 3 principal reasons why not.

1. The form factor. Something phone shaped that slips in and out of your back pocket is in no way ergonomically good to use as a serious tool.

2. I don’t much care for the image. Yes it’s getting better with every iteration and movies have been filmed on the things…but it’s still not quite there yet for me.

3. The tools can be part of the joy and not simply part of the process. I get zero joy from using my phone for photo or video. In that regard, it’s simply a/the most convenient option.

4. Bonus ball. For any serious paid work, if you turned up for a gig and said, “nah mate, I didn’t rent the Arri or any of those cine lenses, because I have this”, and whips out with a flourish, the latest iPhone.

 

[BTM_Pix]

7 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

So no phone specially? Just dislike iPhone log? 
 

It’s not about iPhone log per se it’s just that I thus far haven’t seen anything from a phone that would persuade me to use one over a real camera.

Outside of convenience that is but that’s not the be all and end all for me even though I am inherently a lazy bastard.

7 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

and are you staying you’d prefer the image of the RX100 over be iPhone 15 with log ?

That’s not what I said at all.

I was asking the question of other people who DO own an iPhone 15 who previously carried a compact camera and using the RX100 as an example of one.

 

 

[BTM_Pix]

5 hours ago, kye said:

I'm also curious to hear from @BTM_Pix on why this doesn't move the needle for him

For all the same reasons that @MrSMW outlined in his post above, it would have to be radically different.

And for the same reasons listed in your post, it isn’t so it hasn’t.

When you combine the both then it’s arguable it never will for me personally but that doesn’t mean it won’t for millions of other people.

As I said in the post, it is clearly a leap forward against other iPhones but not a great a leap forward within cameras as a whole to make me think this is the way for me.

There is a scene in Peep Show - and I’ve used this analogy before about phone cameras - but it still sums up my perspective about them…

Jeremy is on a date in a restaurant and tastes some expensive wine and says :

“Wow, this wine tastes amazing. I mean, obviously it's not really delicious like hot chocolate or coke, but for wine... brilliant."

None of that stops me being interested in other people’s uses with them though.

I’m trying to see through the hype about the 15 Pro Max to learn about how many people are actually now using them in a serious enough manner to be interested in a product that I may or may not have developed for it 😉 

[MrSMW]

3 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

For all the same reasons that @MrSMW outlined in his post above, it would have to be radically different.

I think I'd rather see the phone tech in my camera actually...

Seriously, - surf the net, make calls (on speaker obvs.) etc.

Something like the Sigma FP with its grip options, but a tilt screen, mini desktop tripod, all my iPhone capability. Brilliant.

An 'all in one' device has great appeal to me, but at this point in time, it's not a phone and it's certainly not a camera.

[BTM_Pix]

11 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I think I'd rather see the phone tech in my camera actually...

Samsung did it many years ago with their compact cameras.

Its interesting looking back on it now whether they were partly using this as a way of gauging which way consumer photography would go.

And if it was, the results told them that the better way to travel was to close the camera division 🙂 

Zeiss did have a more recent attempt at doing the same wth the ZX1 but it absolutely tanked and was quietly discontinued.

16 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Seriously, - surf the net, make calls (on speaker obvs.) etc.

Its all in there for them to enable it and of course bluetooth would make it easy for the voice comms element of it.

I used to use both the EyeFi and the Toshiba FlashAir cards to auto background transfer images to my phone for semi-immediate posting to social media and if its only for jpegs then bluetooth is perfectly fine for that too.

As with the Samsung and the Zeiss though, neither of those products are still available so when it comes to bridging real cameras to the modern world then maybe they want us old farts to stay in our lane !

[Benjamin Hilton]

I really don't get the hype about phone cameras for cinema. No matter how you slice it, they are really expensive hard to use cameras for what they do. Like Kye broke down, the iPhone 15 can do an okay image at a basically fixed focal length and depth of field in bright light. Even with that, the image looks over sharp, and just weird in many cases. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited about the latest phone camera tech for personal use. The ability to pull my phone out of my pocket and get great photos and videos of my kids whenever I want is really nice. For that purpose, the quality looks great. But when it comes to shooting anything more serious, I could think of half a dozen cameras that are way cheaper, and would land you with much better looking, easier to capture, and more reliable results than a phone camera would. 

With an iPhone, how do you do a heavy handheld look? What do you do when the battery dies? How about overheating? Lowlight? Shallow depth of field? ND filters? Timecode? Audio? The list goes on and on...

It's basically the wrong tool for the job. It's like the latest hatchback advertising how much lumber you can stuff in the trunk for your latest construction project. It's great if you need it every once and a while, but if you do construction seriously, any old cheap pickup truck from the 1980s will do a much much better/easier job. 

[BTM_Pix]

10 hours ago, kye said:

An RX100 has a 9-72mm F2.8-4.5 lens (with a crop factor of 2.667 is 24-192mm), which means there is no cropping below 4k when zooming beyond 48mm equivalent, and compared to the iPhones tele camera (5x 120mm f2.8) will keep its 4k resolution when zoomed beyond the 120mm iPhone camera

I have the Mark 5 version which has an f1.8-2.4 lens with a shorter zoom range, equivalent to a 24-70mm.

Its getting on for six years old now (these are actually from the first day I picked it up) but its still a better pocketable option for casual shots like this for me personally over my iPhone even if I just based it on the handling and nothing else.

I don't profess that these have any particular merit but I take the quality of what it can produce for what it is and if wherever I'm going is important enough for me to want to get better results then I'll take a real camera anyway so the handling still trumps the iPhone.

Having said that, I am so jaded these days that I can't muster the interest to take any images for casual use so I end up taking nothing out at all anymore. 

Which is why I'm actually really curious about this iPhone 15 Pro Max and very keen to hear the views of those who've actually bought it and to what extent it has made them drop other cameras and in what range of circumstances.

 

[Snowfun]

This thread illustrates just how quickly life moves on. Anyone remember Jim’s attempt at fusing the camera and the phone? He is now back producing sunglasses (no rose tinted ones for those of us who naively bought into the Hydrogen hyperbole however). 

[MrSMW]

6 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Zeiss did have a more recent attempt at doing the same wth the ZX1 but it absolutely tanked and was quietly discontinued.

If I remember correctly, they made a big noise about making this, but then it was quite delayed and when they launched it, barely a peep.

Whether it is great or a bit lame, unless you get it out there with the noisy folk on YouTube, it’s dead in the water. He who shouts loudest and all that…

Plus it was very expensive.

Plus it had a very limited shelf life because tech moves on so fast these days whether we like it, want it, or any other factor.

I’d personally like to also see exchangeable internals as in buy your modular shell and rig it out however you wish whether that is not at all (like me) other than perhaps a bit of a grip, or add on frames and screens and rails etc, but a couple of years down the line, be able to either plug & play, or send in for an upgrade.

There is a real lack of imagination in the camera world comprising mostly the mildest of evolutions but rarely a revolution.

[BTM_Pix]

1 minute ago, MrSMW said:

Whether it is great or a bit lame

True story, I was in a camera shop in Berlin with @Andrew Reid early last year and they had a ZX1 in a display case and I motioned towards it and the guy behind the counter laughed and refused to let me have a look on the basis that it was a "piece of shit".

Obviously didn't want to jeopardise future sales of non pieces of shit 🙂 

16 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I’d personally like to also see exchangeable internals as in buy your modular shell and rig it out however you wish

Ricoh did something along those lines a good few years ago with their GXR system where you slid in lenses which had entirely different sensors behind them, each one tuned to the lens.

They also had the option to slide in one that turned it into an m mount.

To complete the modularity it also had a slide in tiltable EVF.

27 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

There is a real lack of imagination in the camera world comprising mostly the mildest of evolutions but rarely a revolution.

I think its seriously missing from the mainstream manufacturers.

If Sony took that Ricoh idea up then people with a dilemma between an A7Rx and A7Sx would just buy the singular body and slide the sensor in that they needed for that particular task.

But of course they want you to have that dilemma so you buy both.