Capturing the best A7s skin tones

[Inazuma]

austinchimp, I have the a7s since a couple of months and I am still on a path to get decent skin tones while having accurate colors. Trust me, I tested all those profile guides that I found on the net.

s-log is at the moment no option to me since I want to have ISO 100 and i did not start using ND filters yet. Anyways, you might give those settings a go:

Take PP2 as a base (with default values of course) and change the following:

gamma: cine4

color mode: pro

color phase: +5

 

These settings work amazingly well for me, here is one quick example:

Another very important aspect I found out is setting the white balance manually to appropriate kelvin values. You can look them up using Google if you are not familiar with them. Interestingly, I found myself nearly always using 5600k during daylight circumstances, no matter whether it is shady or bright sun (even with snow!). Only on tungsten light or halogen, I change the white balance to about 3900k and within the above mentioned color profile, i change color phase to +2 (i use PP3 for that to change it more quickly), otherwise the image is very yellowish.

 

You could give those settings a try. I would love to hear from you if it helped a bit since I am sure that this journey is not done yet.

​Looks great! Do you think there's still a dynamic rang advantage (compared to say, the GX7) without slog?

[j.f.r.]

​Looks great! Do you think there's still a dynamic rang advantage (compared to say, the GX7) without slog?

​Sony A7s has between 11.5-12 stops of dynamic range, GX7 around 9 or possible even less...... When shooting outdoors with Sun you definitely want to shoot Slog for maximum dynamic range. 

[jase]

​Looks great! Do you think there's still a dynamic rang advantage (compared to say, the GX7) without slog?

​I would have to do a side by side comparison to provide an answer to you. Could do that this weekend. At least my experience was not like "wow, amazing dynamic range!" - it was more like "wow, amazing low light capabilities!"  To be honest, dynamic range was never my real issue I have to admint. Slog is no option for me due to iso 3200.

[Inazuma]

​Sony A7s has between 11.5-12 stops of dynamic range, GX7 around 9 or possible even less...... When shooting outdoors with Sun you definitely want to shoot Slog for maximum dynamic range. 

I was asking about DR WITHOUT slog, because jase said he wasnt using it 

​

​I would have to do a side by side comparison to provide an answer to you. Could do that this weekend. At least my experience was not like "wow, amazing dynamic range!" - it was more like "wow, amazing low light capabilities!"  To be honest, dynamic range was never my real issue I have to admint. Slog is no option for me due to iso 3200.

​Cheers

[j.f.r.]

I was asking about DR WITHOUT slog, because jase said he wasnt using it 

​

 

​Cheers

​I own the camera, you want to use SLOG for maximum dynamic range like I stated, now if you don't want help thats another story.....

 

Iso 3200 means nothing, all you do is use a stronger ND filter which you should own anyways

[Inazuma]

​I own the camera, you want to use SLOG for maximum dynamic range like I stated, now if you don't want help thats another story.....

 

Iso 3200 means nothing, all you do is use a stronger ND filter which you should own anyways

Again, all I was asking is specifically what the DR was like without SLOG. I wasn't asking whether or not SLOG should be used 

​

[j.f.r.]

Again, all I was asking is specifically what the DR was like without SLOG. I wasn't asking whether or not SLOG should be used 

​

The reason for using S-LOG is for maximum dynamic range, if you chose not to use it you lose about 2 stops without it. So you can effectively go from 12 to 10 stops by not shooting in S-LOG mode or even worst. Some people have ranned test and said they only lost about 1 stop, but from my experience with the camera you would always want to use it at it's best setting.

S-LOG mode protects your highlights which is crucial during bright scenes, if you're shooting a night time scene maybe not so important, but you can clip your sensor easily so you still need to be careful. From my experience I would use S-LOG mode 99% of the time.

[jase]

I think it honestly comes down why you buy a particular camera. I did not invest all the money to get the A7s because of DR. But my audience is also totally different: I make videos for my friends and myself when we are spending time together. They honestly dont care about DR. They also dont care and dont see whether I use my GM1 or the A7s... However, when I do some low light work, they actually do care because they see the difference. 

Yes, I know that with a ND I can overcome the iso 3200 limitation easliy, but I am a run&gun shooter - if you take a look at my work you will notice that everything is spontaneous.. I just point and shoot and just care about aperture and focus of course. Thats it. I dont care about shutter and very often I dont care about ISO as well - thanks to the A7s I dont have to, anymore. All boils down to your needs. I heard from many people that SLOG is not necessary in 99% of the situations - for you it is quite the opposite. But hey, thats ok - personal preference

[ntblowz]

I dunno why he have to write so many other stuff when a simple 10 stop dr when not using slog2 would do.

 

A7s for me is also wow night camera too lol, for gun and run NX1 is my cam, 4K and 120p with full working video AF (daytime) means I just point and shoot most of the time.. on a gimbal lol, colour is nice straight out of the camera and subject is in focus, 4K means I can crop in post since you can't zoom on a gimbal. Man I am becoming lazy lol.

[jax_rox]

I haven't done any scientific testing - but I couldn't say equivocally that you lose two whole stops of dynamic range. Honestly, it depends on what you're shooting and how you're exposing. If you put the camera into REC709 Picture Profile, you do easily lose a couple of stops of dynamic range, but in PP off, or in different Picture Profile settings, it's not as cut and dry.

Even with PP off - it reminds me more of the difference between REC709 and Log-C on an Alexa, rather than two totally different images with different dynamic ranges to boot.

You can still shoot pretty damn flat without going full Slog, being able to maintain low ISOs. Again, I haven't really put it through major testing (I will be soon), but even Cine2 compared to Slog2 doesn't seem to have that drastic a difference in dynamic range.

I dunno - I usually try and shoot within my dynamic range anyway,,

[kidzrevil]

@Inazuma  roughly 10 stops with pp off bro, not much different than what you are getting out of your GH cameras. Cine 4 is close to the dr of slog (in the highlights)when underexposed slightly. For general use  i use autumn picture style , cine 1 in the day, and cine4 indoors with tungsten lighting. Worked great for me I only pulled out slog if there were way too many blown out areas in the frame

[The Chris]

13 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

@Inazuma  roughly 10 stops with pp off bro, not much different than what you are getting out of your GH cameras. Cine 4 is close to the dr of slog (in the highlights)when underexposed slightly. For general use  i use autumn picture style , cine 1 in the day, and cine4 indoors with tungsten lighting. Worked great for me I only pulled out slog if there were way too many blown out areas in the frame

Not true, DR is identical, you just have to expose differently - Slog needs to be overexposed and Cine4 needs to be underexposed for maximum DR. Macgregor even posted a high contrast sample where he matched them, no difference.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?327893-A7s-S-log2-too-noisy-Then-underexpose-cine4

If you can't get more DR out of the giant sensor/pixels in the A7s compared to a GH4, you're doing something wrong.

[kidzrevil]

@The Chris my fault. Didn't pull out a chart to measure the DR, just used it in the real world and didn't seem to be much of a difference in DR from what I got out of my GH4. I def said you need to underexpose as well :-)

[The Chris]

1 hour ago, kidzrevil said:

@The Chris my fault. Didn't pull out a chart to measure the DR, just used it in the real world and didn't seem to be much of a difference in DR from what I got out of my GH4. I def said you need to underexpose as well :-)

All good man, there are so many great options. 

Cheers

[kidzrevil]

You ever use the rx10 ii ? I just got one and its nothing like the a7s (of course). Im trying to dial in some settings for decent color @The Chris

[mercer]

10 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

You ever use the rx10 ii ? I just got one and its nothing like the a7s (of course). Im trying to dial in some settings for decent color @The Chris

Look forward to your results. What made you decide to go with the RX instead of the XC?

[The Chris]

11 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

You ever use the rx10 ii ? I just got one and its nothing like the a7s (of course). Im trying to dial in some settings for decent color @The Chris

Try Samuel H's Flaat, he's used it on the RX100IV after selling the a7s with great success if you want to shoot slog. 

http://www.similaar.com/foto/flaat-a7s/index.html

Otherwise I'm a big fan of Cine4 as well. 

[kidzrevil]

@The Chris there is only cine 1 & cine 2 on the rx10ii

@mercer I got it because of the constant 2.8  & the crazy close focus distance. It helps thats its damn near $1000 cheaper than the xc10 which to me is wildly over priced

[PannySVHS]

5 hours ago, Ben's EOSHD said:

Just in case people come to check out this thread as well. I think you should check out these videos where there was little to no correction done at all to the video. This is all pretty much sony a7sii in camera with no adjustments in post. Based off the devinsupertramp color profile. Still trying to tweak it to perfection. 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCOmyKDVzdg

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfinNpywLzg&t

Hallo Ben, I´ve just send you a PM. cheers