KineMini 4k raw, first impressions and graded test footage

[silvertonesx24]

Being that there is such a lack of info online about this camera, I figured that I would see what I could do to provide info for those interested. I have no problem trying out Chinese manufacturing in general and have had good results overall.

The video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxebYAeneaA

First impressions with the Kinefinity KineMini after using DSLRs for professional work for ~6 years:

• Bought this for shooting anamorphic, which it is brilliant at, but I'm really liking what this might offer for commercial projects. The color latitude on this feels incredible. Dynamic range seems good, I don't really care to scientifically test it, but being able to control the highlights in camera is a nice professional feature.
• 4k is remarkably clear. 1080p slow motion, not so much. Not sure why, but I get a lot of RGB mud in the shadows if you want to be picky on the image. It may be Cineform, I will have to test a few options.
• I really enjoy the development-type workflow with raw. File sizes are large, but really not that much worse than uncompressed 5D raw.
• Although it is much heavier (considering all accessories) than a DSLR setup, it's completely possible to run and gun and not that hard to get used to.
• I often cheated with exposure on a DSLR- using shutter angle instead of using a Vari-ND filter like you're supposed to. That doesn't seem to work with this camera, as a low shutter angle feels extremely video-ish for whatever reason.
• People think you're filming a movie, not taking pictures (this can be a good or bad thing)

Can't wait to get the new speed booster for this thing. Super 35mm is OK, but I am used to depending upon my 35mm Zeiss (no longer a wide on s35) and 100mm Zeiss (far too telephoto for most of my shooting)

 

 

 

[Oliver Daniel]

Thanks for sharing - cool! 

I've always thought these cameras produce one of the most unique and pleasing images on the market. 

It's going to be difficult for them now the URSA Mini has been announced. On paper the URSA seems the better option, not to mention the solid distribution Blackmagic have worldwide. 

I want these guys to do well, they've done a great job. They need help though - let's hope they can get this image into the hands of more filmmakers. 

[Raafi Rivero]

Looks great -- shooting, colors, DR. Nice use of edit to build tension. How was workflow in the field? Menu navigation, responsiveness, etc... until Ursa Mini came out I was ready to jump in with one of these. Did the camera "get out of the way" and let you shoot?

[silvertonesx24]

Looks great -- shooting, colors, DR. Nice use of edit to build tension. How was workflow in the field? Menu navigation, responsiveness, etc... until Ursa Mini came out I was ready to jump in with one of these. Did the camera "get out of the way" and let you shoot?

​Interesting questions. I would say, overall, yes it did. It was easy enough to run and gun if you need it, even though the camera is obviously built for crew shoots. Responsiveness is very good- certainly a breath of fresh air over Magic Lantern Raw. The battery grip is terribly overpriced but also very useful for run and gun. Menu navigation is snappy and intuitive, but the physical joystick navigation isn't as much so. I have had no problems on two shoots so far with crashes/hangs/general reliability. Being able to store 4 preset settings is useful and timesaving.

[fuzzynormal]

instead of using a Vari-ND filter like you're supposed to.

​Good notes overall. 

For what it's worth, you're not "supposed to" use variable ND if you want the most pristine image.  Variable ND is going to refract light a little bit.  A better solution is a single ND filter.

I'm with you on the willingness to accept Chinese product in this arena.  Why not give them a try?  If they're actually dedicated engineers building the thing and they have a tight QC, seems viable.  After all, I feel like my iPhone is a solid product.

[mtheory]

I noticed that most of the China scaremongering is coming from RED fan boys. They should name their next camera "RED Neck".

[Kristoferman]

​Good notes overall. 

For what it's worth, you're not "supposed to" use variable ND if you want the most pristine image.  Variable ND is going to refract light a little bit.  A better solution is a single ND filter.

I'm with you on the willingness to accept Chinese product in this arena.  Why not give them a try?  If they're actually dedicated engineers building the thing and they have a tight QC, seems viable.  After all, I feel like my iPhone is a solid product.

Isn't kinefinity an established company in the field of astronomy cameras? 

[Michel_Juknat]

Isn't kinefinity an established company in the field of astronomy cameras? 

​actually this company who makes astronomy cameras founded a project about 5 years ago who's goal was to make digital cinema cameras

after the first prototype was successfully produced and tested, Kinefinity Inc. was founded as an independent company (co-owned to a majority by the initial developers)

[Kristoferman]

​actually this company who makes astronomy cameras founded a project about 5 years ago who's goal was to make digital cinema cameras

after the first prototype was successfully produced and tested, Kinefinity Inc. was founded as an independent company (co-owned to a majority by the initial developers)

Thanks for the info. Good to know! Couldn't find much online about it

[Kristoferman]

​actually this company who makes astronomy cameras founded a project about 5 years ago who's goal was to make digital cinema cameras

after the first prototype was successfully produced and tested, Kinefinity Inc. was founded as an independent company (co-owned to a majority by the initial developers)

Are you a kinefinity rep? Thought I saw a video with someone named Michel.

[silvertonesx24]

​Good notes overall. 

For what it's worth, you're not "supposed to" use variable ND if you want the most pristine image.  Variable ND is going to refract light a little bit.  A better solution is a single ND filter.

I'm with you on the willingness to accept Chinese product in this arena.  Why not give them a try?  If they're actually dedicated engineers building the thing and they have a tight QC, seems viable.  After all, I feel like my iPhone is a solid product.

​Yes, good point. I am wondering if I should get a high end Vari ND like the Singh Ray or a couple of good Hoya fixed ND.

The machine is built very solidly- it certainly does not feel rushed or that they cut corners. If I can figure out what causes that line-skipping or noise in Hi Speed slow motion- this camera would be nearly perfect for me.

[silvertonesx24]

I noticed that most of the China scaremongering is coming from RED fan boys. They should name their next camera "RED Neck".

​Buy American, buy American.....while wearing shoes made for pennies by Asian child labor...

[Michel_Juknat]

Are you a kinefinity rep? Thought I saw a video with someone named Michel.

​Kristoferman , I'm the founder of the company who's in charge of european distribution for Kinefinity, we're based in Berlin

and you're right, it's hard to find the needed information on kinefinity cameras because it's spread all around the web,

 

 

here are some helpful links for anyone who's interested:

1. the facebook group of Kine Users: https://www.facebook.com/groups/kinefinity/

2. independent forum run by the same guys who made the fb group: http://kinecommunity.com/

3. a collection of videos by one of our dear customers from Amsterdam: https://www.pinterest.com/pixelstudiostv/kinefinity-kinemini-4k-review/

4. the Main website - run by the Beijing based HQ: http://kinefinity.com/

5. the Europe based website (basically a clone of the main website) : http://www.kinefinity.tv/

6. contact for US buyers: pls PM me or send me an email to contact@kinefinity.tv and I will forward your request to the L.A. based sales rep

7. contact for EU buyers: pls check the kinefinity.tv website

Finally for all kind of tech related questions, inquiries, sponsoring requests etc. you can contact either me (kf.tv) or sales@kinefinity.com directly

 

Hope this brings a little light into the dark

cheers

Michel

[enny]

I noticed that most of the China scaremongering is coming from RED fan boys. They should name their next camera "RED Neck".

​hahahahahahahhaha

[陈华]

Isn't kinefinity an established company in the field of astronomy cameras? 

​http://qhyccd.com/en/

[silvertonesx24]

I just heard back from Kinefinity support. They said the Hi Speed modes do suffer from the severe line skipping I mentioned in my OP. Hopefully this is an issue that they can resolve through firmware or post-processing somehow, as it is a monster camera otherwise.

[mjfan]

so now there is a Los Angeles based sales rep? will there be a U.S. Distributor soon?

[silvertonesx24]

So I did another test shoot yesterday and am transferring over the footage from KRW to Cineform Raw. The new 0.72 Kinestation update is FAST. Basically created Cineform Raw files ready to edit at real-time speeds, even on my older i7 machine.

[mtheory]

Can you change life exposure by several stops with Cineform Raw? Does it keep the information?

[silvertonesx24]

Can you change life exposure by several stops with Cineform Raw? Does it keep the information?

​Since I'm on Davinci Resolve Mac- no. If you are on windows, there is a plugin that allows control of the raw

(coming soon to Mac, perhaps as well)

http://bmcuser.com/showthread.php?13273-Spaces-Raw-CineForm-Raw-Panel-for-Davinci-Resolve