Is the EVA1 Dead In 2024? (Compared to S1H?)

[Mark Romero 2]

Is there any real benefit for a small / one man do-it-all shooter to choose an EVA1 in 2024 over an S1H?

I noticed that after they deleted / banned all the spammers, there is hardly anyone posting in the EVA1 Facebook group. Like, one post every 6 months, and unlikely for that post to get a reply. Makes me feel that NO ONE is using one anymore.

Is the image quality of the EVA1 still better than the S1H?

Are there other benefits besides some of the I/O and maybe making a better impression on clients?

I could certianly buy both an S1H and an EVA1 used, but I will need at least ONE hybrid camera fo some kind with good autofocus (both for video AND stills), which neither has.

And I am concerned about the viability of using a Panasonic ANYTHING if I am going to try and get work as a second shooter (or through agency assigned jobs) since they will probably be looking for someone who either shoots Sony or Canon (or RED???) 

Cureently have an S1 and an original version of the S5. Main reason to upgrade would be for 6K and / or all-i. Plus the original S5 only shoots 4K with a 30-minute max if shooting in 10-bit.

Thanks in advance.

[Mark Romero 2]

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I only have ONE Lumix / native L Mount lens, the 24-10 f/4

Otherwise adapting Canon EF or Minolta MD / MC and a couple of Sony A-Mount lenses.

[MrSMW]

24 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

but I will need at least ONE hybrid camera fo some kind with good autofocus (both for video AND stills), which neither has.

I’m going to politely disagree with you there.

For video, the S1H is not the greatest for tracking forward motion. Depends on the lens, depends on the aperture, depends on the settings. For everything else AF, I’d class it as good/good enough. Again, with the caveats above.

For stills/photo, zero complaints or issues. Shooting sports, well yes, there are better options but I shoot events, hybrid, 2 years with the S1H and it’s my favourite body for this that I have ever used. At no time have I ever considered the AF or said, “I wish it was better”. 

My only gripe is lenses. Or at least lack of what I ideally need. Yes there are lot’s of lens options for L Mount which if they fit someone’s needs is great. But sadly they don’t provide for mine.

EVA1, no experience and not my kind of camera for my needs so cannot comment.

[PannySVHS]

Eva1 might look creamier than the S1H regarding sharpness due to a 100% video focused oplf. @IronFilmhas had some projects with an Eva I think. I imagine the color science to be nicer. But that's in my imagination. Youtube shows that people love the image they are getting out of the Eva but so say S1h users or BM lovers. One guy put it right inbetween S1H and Varicam with the latter giving a true high end image. S1H beats it handsdown in lowlight though from the comparisons I've seen.

[Mark Romero 2]

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

For stills/photo, zero complaints or issues. Shooting sports, well yes, there are better options but I shoot events, hybrid, 2 years with the S1H and it’s my favourite body for this that I have ever used. At no time have I ever considered the AF or said, “I wish it was better”. 

Unfortunately, my experience has been a bit worse, with my S1 (and S5) and the 24-105 f/4

For events, I often end up with severly back-focused images. I mean, where the S1 / S5 just COMPLETELY missed the people and focused on the background trees or bushes some 10 or 20 or 50 feet behind them.

Strangely enough, when I adap a Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM (that's the third version of that lens) with the MC-21, I NEVER get back-focused images. It just takes a bit longer to gain focus, and there is no AF-C with adapted images on the S1 or original S5.

When the S1 / S5 backfocuses, I have to override it with manual focus, but my eyes aren't great (and neither is the LCD nor the EVF on the S5).

[Mark Romero 2]

48 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Eva1 might look creamier than the S1H regarding sharpness due to a 100% video focused oplf. @IronFilmhas had some projects with an Eva I think. I imagine the color science to be nicer. But that's in my imagination. Youtube shows that people love the image they are getting out of the Eva but so say S1h users or BM lovers. One guy put it right inbetween S1H and Varicam with the latter giving a true high end image. S1H beats it handsdown in lowlight though from the comparisons I've seen.

Thanks for the input.

I have tried looking up some comparisons, but it really doesn't seem to be a particularly popular camera.

Any idea if the EVA1 body has lens compensation for EF / EF-S lenses built in? I know that my S1 / S5 DOESN'T have compensation for, say, my Canon EF-S 10-18 IS STM, so I have to spend a bit of time fixing the vignette and the barrel distortion.

Hopefully I will find some of @IronFilm productions on it.

Thanks again.

[IronFilm]

I personally have never shot with the EVA1. 

Have worked on a TV Series where the EVA1 was fairly regularly used as an extra camera. (their day to day usage was shooting with 3x Panasonic Varicam LT Every. Single. Day. That was a joy for the Sound Dept!) Any time a fourth (or even 5th!) camera was needed then it probably was going to be an EVA1 ( think sometimes they could get their hands on 4th Varicam? But wasn't that often during the reason)

Also worked on a handful of various no/low/mid budget productions (shorts/commercials/etc) where an EVA1 was used as there was one DoP around here who used to own an EVA1 who I'd semi regularly work with. (he sold it off a couple of years ago? Uses a RED Komodo now. These days I honestly could not think of even one DoPs who has an EVA1 here locally)

So yeah, worked in productions using the EVA1 a fair bit, but in the grand scheme of things it was quite rare. 

I think the Panasonic EVA1 was sadly dead on arrival when launched. As it came out waaaay after the FS7 was already on the scene, thus even though the EVA1 was arguably "better" than the FS7, it was just way way too late. The FS7 was already entrenched in place. 

Heck, Canon had even already launched the C300mk2!

Thus the EVA1 was put squarely in at least 3rd Place (arguably even 4th Place, or worse. As the Blackmagic URSA series attacked hard the no / low budget section of the market which was non-FS7).

Here is the niches where the EVA1 still makes sense in 2024 (but only if you're buying it bargain secondhand prices. Would be crazy to buy it brand new!!):

1) you don't need to ever worry about working with productions that use Sony shooters (say for instance if you do everything about a production in house yourself, and not working as a freelance Cameraman For Hire). Has not having a camera compatible with the #1 brand puts you at a big disadvantage (or heck, at least have a camera in the top five! Sony/ARRI/Canon/Blackmagic/RED)

2) you work in a weird little niche where somehow strangely Panasonic has clawed itself into the top three market share or better. As I'm sure there are little pockets of the filmmaking communities where you might find a large handful of your buddies are all shooting Panasonic. (for instance here in NZ if I was not a PSM but a Cam Op / DoP who was tight with Producers / Directors who work all the time 24/7 with SPP, then maaaybe I'd consider picking up a Panasonic EVA1 as maaaaybe it could pick up a few rental dollars here or there going onto those productions which I'd already be working on)

3) you stubbornly ignore all those factors above (or you're lucky and they don't apply to you) and you really want the power of a FS7/XDCA (or F5) but in the smaller form factor of a FS5 body (and/or you don't like "the Sony look") but you can't afford a FX6. (and for whatever reason, you're a Canon hater, so the C300mk2 is ruled out) Then the Panasonic EVA1 is perfect for you!

4) or you already own a Panasonic Varicam, and you need a smaller and/or cheaper B Cam. But you don't want the rigging hassle of a S1H/BS1H. Then the Panasonic EVA1 is perfect for you!

5) you're a S1H/S1/S5/etc shooter and you really really really want built in NDs (or SDI out, or BNC TC, or whatever... but don't want the BS1H). Then the Panasonic EVA1 is perfect for you!

6) you're a contrarian with a conspiracy minded bent. And it was either this or a ZCam/Kinefinity, but you didn't want the CCP spying on you. Then the Panasonic EVA1 is perfect for you!

7) you get offered the EVA1 for free. Then the Panasonic EVA1 is perfect for you!

That I think is a fairly extensive list of who I think the Panasonic EVA1 is suitable for someone to get in 2024. 

Might have missed out one or two niche exceptions, but I think it's quite comprehensive. 

I hope this year Panasonic brings out an EVA2 with a L Mount (or a MFT mount.... ha!!). But if it happens, the EVA2 will fall victim to the same crime the EVA1 was guilty of: just was simply far too late to market. 

The FX6 has been out for yonks now (heck, I bet within the next couple of years we'll see a mk2 for either the FX6 and/or the FX9. That's just how long it's been!). And the Canon C70 and Blackmagic Pocket 6K cameras have been out for a good chunk of time too, together with the RED Komodo they've swept up nearly every corner of the low/mid budget market. Only a few little corners left to exist in such as where ZCam and Kinefinity are, or Panasonic's own BS1H. 

There is very little space left there for EVA2 to take market share, it would have to fight hard for every inch of it. 

I think Panasonic's best move is not an EVA2, but to relaunch the BS1H (the "BS2H"?) with built in NDs, the AF of the S5mk2, and with the problematic delays of the SDI out fixed that was in the original BS1H. If they can do that at the same price point as the original BS1H was launched at, then they might see some traction they can then build upon.  As such a BS2H could be "the poor man's ARRI 35" who can't afford anything close to ARRI prices, but wants: a box format camera, with good color science, 4K, with built in NDs, SDI, TC, and all at an affordable price. (as strangely enough... think about, what camera meets this?? None aside from the ARRI 35!! And Mini LF. Plus perhaps the OG ALEXA Mini if you ignore the fact it's technically upscaled 4K, not true 4K. On a low budget the closest thing otherwise is using a stripped down FX6 body, or similar. Such as C70)

But the BS1H is only a little over two years old, so I can't see a BS2H coming out this year so soon. 

More likely (at least... we hope?? Be terrible if they don't even do at least this) is that the S1H will be updated with the PDAF of the S5mk2, but otherwise no other major changes of note, just general smaller improvements here or there from the original S1H. 

Then another year or two after that we get the box camera version announced of the S1H mk2.

But by that point, it will be too late? As Blackmagic/RED/ZCam/Kinefinity/Canon/etc won't keep standing still in the years to come. 

[IronFilm]

8 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I could certianly buy both an S1H and an EVA1 used, but I will need at least ONE hybrid camera fo some kind with good autofocus (both for video AND stills), which neither has.

If you're working solely by yourself (never on other people's productions) say as a wedding videographer or small in house corporate productions, then yes getting say an EVA1 + S1H + S5mk2 (for when AF is critically important, say when shooting solo on a gimbal unpredictable content) would be a nice little package to have!

 

8 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

And I am concerned about the viability of using a Panasonic ANYTHING if I am going to try and get work as a second shooter (or through agency assigned jobs) since they will probably be looking for someone who either shoots Sony or Canon (or RED???) 

Of course it depends a lot on where you live, and what kind of markets you work in (narrative vs doco vs sports vs commercials vs whatever can all have very different preferences. Likewise low vs mid vs high budget tiers can have different preferences too. Ditto what's popular in Berlin vs Vancouver could be quite different) but generally speaking if you're looking to work quite a bit as a Cam Op / Second Shooter / etc it would be rather foolish to pick anything other than a Sony. 

With a very strong preference for going with the Sony FX6, maaaybe the FX9 depending on your market niche and/or budget. (some people might even be targeting the Sony BURANO, such as this guy who just posted about it this week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91_psSssbGk&ab_channel=CrankyCameraman As that what makes sense for his market and the work he does) But if on a very tight budget, and the FX6 isn't viable, then go with either the FS7 or FX3/FX30 instead. 

If for perhaps you hate Sony and your joy is more important the $$$ in the bank account, or maybe you are targeting a niche where Sony isn't so big & relevant (say narrative for instance) then you can think about other non-Sony alternatives. 

For instance if you're trying to break into the narrative world and make it as a DoP (or you've already "made it" as a DoP, and you can work on productions where you can use whatever cameras you wish and are suitable for the shoot. As they've got the rental budget for it. But you want a smaller cheaper "personal camera" for yourself, so you can bring it along to passion projects you're shooting that you wish to help out) then I'd be seriously considering non-Sony cameras such as the Blackmagics (any of them) or the RED Komodo (or older cheaper models such as the RED Raven or RED Epic / Scarlet) or an older ARRI Alexa Classic (or perhaps the AMIRA). Maaaaybe the BS1H would get a consideration. 

 

[IronFilm]

20 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

But by that point, it will be too late? As Blackmagic/RED/ZCam/Kinefinity/Canon/etc won't keep standing still in the years to come. 

You can see what I mean about them not standing still; RED just announced this:

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/01/25/v-raptor-8k-vv-x-v-raptor-xl-8k-vv-x-global-shutter-cameras/

Has all of this: global shutter, mirrorless mount, 8K, TC, genlock, SDI, etc etc etc (you kinda sort of ish "have built in NDs", but not really. As the EF adapter can have NDs built into it, but you won't have the clear ND option. And of course no NDs if working with RF Mount lenses) 

Yeah ok, the  RED V-RAPTOR 8K VV [X] is however a $30K camera. But it will still have a knock on domino effect pushing down the secondhand prices of all the RED models below it. Making it even harder for a future Panasonic BS2H / EVA2 (or Varicam LT mk2) to compete against it. 

26 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I think Panasonic's best move is not an EVA2, but to relaunch the BS1H (the "BS2H"?) with built in NDs, the AF of the S5mk2, and with the problematic delays of the SDI out fixed that was in the original BS1H. If they can do that at the same price point as the original BS1H was launched at, then they might see some traction they can then build upon.  As such a BS2H could be "the poor man's ARRI 35" who can't afford anything close to ARRI prices, but wants: a box format camera, with good color science, 4K, with built in NDs, SDI, TC, and all at an affordable price. (as strangely enough... think about, what camera meets this?? None aside from the ARRI 35!! And Mini LF. Plus perhaps the OG ALEXA Mini if you ignore the fact it's technically upscaled 4K, not true 4K. On a low budget the closest thing otherwise is using a stripped down FX6 body, or similar. Such as C70)

My bad, I totally forgot about the box-ish style cameras with NDs which are:

Sony VENICE (all versions) + Sony BURANO

Still, it doesn't change my point much, as the cheapest of those is the BURANO at US$25K. 

[Mark Romero 2]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

You can see what I mean about them not standing still; RED just announced this:

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/01/25/v-raptor-8k-vv-x-v-raptor-xl-8k-vv-x-global-shutter-cameras/

Has all of this: global shutter, mirrorless mount, 8K, TC, genlock, SDI, etc etc etc (you kinda sort of ish "have built in NDs", but not really. As the EF adapter can have NDs built into it, but you won't have the clear ND option. And of course no NDs if working with RF Mount lenses) 

Yeah ok, the  RED V-RAPTOR 8K VV [X] is however a $30K camera. But it will still have a knock on domino effect pushing down the secondhand prices of all the RED models below it. Making it even harder for a future Panasonic BS2H / EVA2 (or Varicam LT mk2) to compete against it. 

My bad, I totally forgot about the box-ish style cameras with NDs which are:

Sony VENICE (all versions) + Sony BURANO

Still, it doesn't change my point much, as the cheapest of those is the BURANO at US$25K. 

First, thanks for the three replies. You do seem to have a pretty good grasp of the current camera situation at most of the different budget levels.

Yes, I agree with your points. 

My needs are that MOST of the time I would be a one-man-band doing it all myself. 

And used EVA1s are fairly inexpensive (around $2,500 on ebay).

And the 24-015 f/4 L Mount I use currently on my Lumix S1 and S5 OG is a great lens for product photography.

But...

I would also want to pick up work where I can as, say, a cam op on an agency job, or as a second shooter at a wedding, etc., and here in California, it is much like the rest of the USA (and probably the world) that agencies pretty much want Sony operators, and wedding shooters want second shooters who shoot Sony, too.

(Of course I am sure there are some agencies that want RED or Canon, but it seems most of the agency-originated jobs are going to Sony shooters. Unless I am missing somethign completely.)

I don't HATE Sony, and in some instances it would make (much) more sense than Panasonic and / or L Mount.

My only real gripes are why they don't have 6K resolution? I don't need to DELIVER in 6K, but kind of need it to cover up jump cuts (the kind of talent I work with struggles even with a teleprompter, so being able to cut to a tighter shot can cover up a jump cut... of course, I have a second camera too).

Also, I saw a video comparing an FX6 to the Varicam LT (I know, an EVA1 is not a Varicam LT), and I certainly liked the image from the Varicam a lot more than the FX6:

Oh, my other gripe is, why can't they put waveforms on their hybrid cameras? And why no Timecode??? (I got the Deity TC-1 and I use Resolve so I can convert audio timecode to meta data in Resolve, but still, since I suck at audio, I like to have as much redundant audio as possible and using up the audio jack on an a7 IV with the TC-1 timecode is kind of a bummer.)

Also, S-Cinetone is trash.

And I can't stand "creators" who buy sony because of the amazing autofocus, and then shoot in anamorphics on them. 

Anyway, so now that I am done complaining, I will probably end up with an FX3 and an a7 IV since I need a camera for still photos (that has a mechanical shutter for firing  flash).

Heck, Maybe I will even get an FX30 since I still have a handful of Sony aps-c lenses like the 10-18 f/4 and the 50mm E OIS, and about four copies of the 16-50 pwoerzoom kit lens that all suck and I can't even seem to give them away...

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

If you're working solely by yourself (never on other people's productions) say as a wedding videographer or small in house corporate productions, then yes getting say an EVA1 + S1H + S5mk2 (for when AF is critically important, say when shooting solo on a gimbal unpredictable content) would be a nice little package to have!

Well hello there. That is my middle name, just without the EVA in the mix ie, I find the combo of S1H + S5ii to be the dogs biscuits.

 

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

First, thanks for the three replies. You do seem to have a pretty good grasp of the current camera situation at most of the different budget levels.

Yes, I agree with your points. 

My needs are that MOST of the time I would be a one-man-band doing it all myself. 

And used EVA1s are fairly inexpensive (around $2,500 on ebay).

Sounds like a package of Panasonics are perfect for you right now!

 

1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

But...

I would also want to pick up work where I can as, say, a cam op on an agency job, or as a second shooter at a wedding, etc., and here in California, it is much like the rest of the USA (and probably the world) that agencies pretty much want Sony operators, and wedding shooters want second shooters who shoot Sony, too.

(Of course I am sure there are some agencies that want RED or Canon, but it seems most of the agency-originated jobs are going to Sony shooters. Unless I am missing somethign completely.)

Ah this is the problem then, what is right for you "now" isn't right for you now once you consider where you want to be in one, two or five years time. 

1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I don't HATE Sony, and in some instances it would make (much) more sense than Panasonic and / or L Mount.

My only real gripes are why they don't have 6K resolution? I don't need to DELIVER in 6K, but kind of need it to cover up jump cuts (the kind of talent I work with struggles even with a teleprompter, so being able to cut to a tighter shot can cover up a jump cut... of course, I have a second camera too).

Meh, if you're shooting low budget stuff with mirrorless cameras then just punch in anyway then still use it in your timeline for an upscaled 4K export. 

Nobody else will notice or care, other than you being extra hard and finicky on yourself. 

As yeah, in the Sony world you'll need to spend at least Sony FX9 money to get yourself a 6K camera. 

Although.... the Sony FX30 does record to ProResRaw 4.7K, so if you just want "a little bit more than 4K" that might tick the box for you. 

 

1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Oh, my other gripe is, why can't they put waveforms on their hybrid cameras? And why no Timecode??? (I got the Deity TC-1 and I use Resolve so I can convert audio timecode to meta data in Resolve, but still, since I suck at audio, I like to have as much redundant audio as possible and using up the audio jack on an a7 IV with the TC-1 timecode is kind of a bummer.)

Get the FX series cameras and you'll have TC support. (FX30/FX3/FX6/FX9)

 

1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

And I can't stand "creators" who buy sony because of the amazing autofocus, and then shoot in anamorphics on them. 

Just because a camera has great autofocus doesn't mean you have to use it all the time. If I got an FX30 I'd certainly be using the great autofocus on low budget videography jobs but then when I shoot a short film / music video with it then I'd be stealing/borrowing/begging a set of anamorphics for the day. 

Plus when Sony was #1 for the low/mid budget productions back just before I started, back in the era of Sony EX1 / EX3 then it wasn't #1 due to autofocus. 

When Sony slipped down to and held strongly the #2 position during the C100/C300mk1 vs FS100/FS700 era (& sort of F3 era), that had kinda almost nothing to do about Sony's autofocus performance. 

When Sony regained the #1 crown for the low/mid budget productions in the FS7 era (and kinda FS5 / F5 era, they played their part too)  that also had nothing to do with their autofocus performance, as it had terrible AF (almost "none" for all practical purposes).

Likewise, Sony is still #1 today in the Sony FX Era not purely due to its autofocus performance, but due to all the other factors being the primary reasons why. 

1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Anyway, so now that I am done complaining, I will probably end up with an FX3 and an a7 IV since I need a camera for still photos (that has a mechanical shutter for firing  flash).

Heck, Maybe I will even get an FX30 since I still have a handful of Sony aps-c lenses like the 10-18 f/4 and the 50mm E OIS, and about four copies of the 16-50 pwoerzoom kit lens that all suck and I can't even seem to give them away...

My suggestion is get the cheapest a7 you can get away with. If it's an original a7 secondhand, then fantastic! (I dunno how important stills are to you, and how much of your work you do as a stills photographer. If it's major, then of course you might need better than an a7mk1! Or is the a7mk4 a body you already have?)

So that you've got as much cash free to get a Sony FX6. If you have any budget still left, then get one or two Sony FX30 bodies, otherwise just get it as soon as you can. 

Having an FX3 by itself as your "best" camera still unfortunately puts you in the same general category as someone shooting with say an a7mk3 or heck even an a6100 shooter. You get viewed as a mirrorless/hybrid shooter. Sure, you can pick up low/no budget shooter jobs as a second videographer for weddings or little short films or whatever. 

But if you want to have a shot at breaking into the more professional low/mid market, then an FX6 is the price of entry. (or at least say an FS7, although that's becoming rapidly old and irrelevant)

Do however consider if you've got the right body of work / showreel / connections to have a real shot at making it up to that next left? If not, maybe buy the Sony FX30 bodies first. Then in a year or two get the FX6 (especially as they'll be even more affordable secondhand by then), and just rent an FX6 until then if you need it. 

  

31 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Well hello there. That is my middle name

Indeed it is you to a T!

31 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

just without the EVA in the mix ie, I find the combo of S1H + S5ii to be the dogs biscuits.

If the EVA1 could take photos would you get it?? 😛 🤣

[kye]

9 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

My only real gripes are why they don't have 6K resolution? I don't need to DELIVER in 6K, but kind of need it to cover up jump cuts (the kind of talent I work with struggles even with a teleprompter, so being able to cut to a tighter shot can cover up a jump cut... of course, I have a second camera too).

If you haven't done it already, I suggest you do a test to see how much you can zoom in post before it becomes visible.  I did this test and was able to zoom to 150% without degradation.  

Here's what I recommend (and I did):

1. Get your sharpest lens
2. Find a subject with sharp edges / textures
3. Put high contrast lighting on the subject, so the edges have maximum contrast
4. Setup up the shot, be sure to stop the lens aperture down 2-3 stops from wide open so you're in the sharpest part of the lens
5. Take one shot from this perspective
6. Move the camera a bit closer, refocus, take another shot
7. Repeat 6 a few times
8. In post, take the first shot and crop it to roughly match each subsequent shot
9. For each crop, go back and forth between the cropped and normal shots, and add sharpening to the cropped shot until the overall level of perceptual sharpness is even
10. Apply a colour grade across all the shots
11. Export / upload the footage how you would normally deliver
12. Compare each pair of FOVs and see if that level of crop is acceptable

I've done this test, and I've seen others do this test too, and the results are surprising.  I've also seen a bunch of morons do this test but without applying sharpening, then when the sharpness didn't match they declared that they needed the extra resolution - talk about embarrassing yourself in public!

Of course, this test is grossly unfair, as in real shooting it takes a much greater difference to notice, and what is visible on the timeline is often not visible in the export (and is obliterated in the stream...)

[MrSMW]

8 hours ago, IronFilm said:

If the EVA1 could take photos would you get it?? 😛 🤣

Not even the slightest chance. Too big, too heavy, too awkward and I definitely do not ever wish to ‘rig’ anything out beyond a cage or a battery grip, a small mic or light.

I do like the idea of something modular however, but we’re talking Sigma FP size and weight, not starting at 2kg bare bones.

But I know it was not a serious question!

[IronFilm]

Have you held an EVA1 before? It's shockingly light!!!  Basically a lightweight feather. 

For a cinema camera...  of course if you're comparing it against a Panasonic S5 you may have a different opinion! (the S5 is a third of the weight of an EVA1)

Anyway, I know that 🙂 Am just teasing you, sorry! 

[Mark Romero 2]

3 hours ago, kye said:

If you haven't done it already, I suggest you do a test to see how much you can zoom in post before it becomes visible.  I did this test and was able to zoom to 150% without degradation.  

Here's what I recommend (and I did):

1. Get your sharpest lens
2. Find a subject with sharp edges / textures
3. Put high contrast lighting on the subject, so the edges have maximum contrast
4. Setup up the shot, be sure to stop the lens aperture down 2-3 stops from wide open so you're in the sharpest part of the lens
5. Take one shot from this perspective
6. Move the camera a bit closer, refocus, take another shot
7. Repeat 6 a few times
8. In post, take the first shot and crop it to roughly match each subsequent shot
9. For each crop, go back and forth between the cropped and normal shots, and add sharpening to the cropped shot until the overall level of perceptual sharpness is even
10. Apply a colour grade across all the shots
11. Export / upload the footage how you would normally deliver
12. Compare each pair of FOVs and see if that level of crop is acceptable

I've done this test, and I've seen others do this test too, and the results are surprising.  I've also seen a bunch of morons do this test but without applying sharpening, then when the sharpness didn't match they declared that they needed the extra resolution - talk about embarrassing yourself in public!

Of course, this test is grossly unfair, as in real shooting it takes a much greater difference to notice, and what is visible on the timeline is often not visible in the export (and is obliterated in the stream...)

Thanks for the suggestion. It is something I can try out. I know that Resolve Studio version (which I have) has a super scaling feature as well. I think the implementation is a bit clunky because, IIRC, you can only up-res in certain pre-defined increments (like double and quadruple the size, or something like that... don't have it open right now). 

In most cases where I punch in during post, I am only punching in by 40% or less.

[Mark Romero 2]

11 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Do however consider if you've got the right body of work / showreel / connections to have a real shot at making it up to that next left? If not, maybe buy the Sony FX30 bodies first. Then in a year or two get the FX6 (especially as they'll be even more affordable secondhand by then), and just rent an FX6 until then if you need it. 

Thank you, that sounds like probably the best course of action. I do need to get my body of work / show reel in order first. It's... dismal...

One question about the FX series: Do you have any idea how well do adapted Canon EF / EF-S lenses work on them with an adapter (probably Sigma MC-11). The Canon EF lenses are ones that work well on the MC-21 adapter on my Panasonic S1 and S5, namely, the EF 16-35 f/4 L IS, the Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM, Canon EF-s 10-18 STM (because Panasonic bodies shoot 4K 60p / 50p with an aps-c crop), EF 85mm f/1.8. 

I know that none of them are "cinema" lenses and aren't even highly rtes as stills photo lenses, but I am just trying to figure out lens costs as well if / when buying a Sony camera. 

BTW: I still have my a6500, but I can't get decent colors out of it (not the fault of Andrew, just s-log is kind of a disaster on those 8-bit cameras), as well as an a6000 (nice 1080p, overheats though) and an a5100 (again, nice 1080p, but REALLY overheats). And as mentioned have a couple of Sony aps-c lenses. Although I should probably sell them soon as long as I can still get SOME money for them???

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Have you held an EVA1 before? It's shockingly light!!!  Basically a lightweight feather. 

Always makes me laugh when I read that someone thinks a 700g mirrorless is heavy.

Heavy? What are you? A 5 year old girl?

Having said that, this 53 year old girl got pretty tired of his 2.8kg set up from last season so replaced it with something almost exactly 1kg lighter.

But then there is pure weight vs weight distribution and handling due to ergos and how you use these things…

[kye]

7 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Thanks for the suggestion. It is something I can try out. I know that Resolve Studio version (which I have) has a super scaling feature as well. I think the implementation is a bit clunky because, IIRC, you can only up-res in certain pre-defined increments (like double and quadruple the size, or something like that... don't have it open right now). 

In most cases where I punch in during post, I am only punching in by 40% or less.

Actually, that's an interesting idea - you could take the 4K image and Super Scale it to 8K, then when you crop into it on the timeline you'd be cropping into (let's say) a 6K area of the image, which was originally a 3K area.

It's definitely worth trying along side dialling in the sharpness yourself.

[IronFilm]

10 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

In most cases where I punch in during post, I am only punching in by 40% or less.

Ninja V recording ProResRaw 4.7K from the FX30 might be the ticket for you. (maybe with a little help uprezzing/sharpening in post)

Do remember that often we can be far too critical on ourselves, and that local bakery you shot for or the local rally car team you film for, none of them are going to notice or care if you punched in on a 4K or 6K image. 

10 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Thank you, that sounds like probably the best course of action. I do need to get my body of work / show reel in order first. It's... dismal...

Yeah there is no point buying a Sony Venice if by the time  you get to the level to justify having it, that a Venice 2, Burano, and even a FX9mk2 are out already! A bit of an extreme example, but it applies all the way down. Don't get an FX6 before you're ready, if a FX30 will do. Don't get an FX30 if an a6300 will do. Don't get an a6300 if a NEX5N will do. (I literally was having this conversation with someone local here in NZ last week. They're brand new with ZERO experience in filmmaking. Of course something like a FX30 would be fantastic for them! And maaaybe if they dropped all their money on it they could get a FX30 body and a kit lens. Some people seriously do that, all the money into the body. But I said they place they should be looking at is at the NEX5N to a6x00 level, secondhand. With more erring towards a NEX5N. 

Lots of times with pro grade cameras people will have an in between stage where they're kinda-ish an owner or at least a regular user, before they actually buy one itself. 

Let's say a producer you know is doing a reality tv production and they go "right, we need half a dozen camera ops with a FX6"

Well, you'll just rent a FX6 for that production. 

Also maybe you start regularly being a wedding second shooter for a guy for a whole wedding season, and he uses a FX6/FX3/FX30 combo setup for the main cameras. So as you become buddy buddy with him, maybe he let's you borrow his FX6 when he doesn't need it? (or for a very cheap deal) 

Thus you then shoot a no budget short film on this freely loaned FX6, and you do a couple of local low budget videography jobs with his FX6 that he rents to you at a great deal. etc etc etc 

As you get more experience with the FX6 you then become comfortable advertising yourself as "an FX6 shooter" (no need to mention the little dirty secret you don't actually own one yourself...). 

Eventually you're doing enough of these FX6 jobs it makes financial sense to then buy your own. (or maybe by this point in time the FX6mk2 has came out! And you get that instead) 

You might even be borrowing/renting a FX6 for jobs that don't strictly need it, but you think both the job and yourself can benefit from it. 

That short film for instance might not have had the budget to rent a FX6, so perhaps strictly speaking you should have used your FX30. But because you believed in the director, and you have got the stars aligning that some of your other mates are going to join in too to be stellar a 1st AC and Gaffer for you on the crew, you decide to really push all out with this to get something amazing for the show reel. So you also use your connections to get the free loan of the FX6. 

Then for that local videography job where you just merely making a social media advert for some local nail saloon, it has just a low budget that sure the FX30 could have been just fine, but maybe there were aspects about it you thought "it would be nice to have a FX6" so you decided to swallow the costs for the discounted FX6 rental from a friend to use it on the shoot. That way both the production and yourself benefits from the experience of using it. 

I've seen this kind of progression / tactic play out many times with various crew members I know in the industry. 

I've done something rather similar myself with my own career as a Production Sound Mixer. 

Started out with just using my absolutely shitty / nonexistent equipment on my own short films or student films and such. (one of my first ever short films I used a monopod as a boom pole! With a Zoom H1 mounted at the end of it. Yes, it was that bad) 

Then I was doing some productions using other people's stuff, such as merely a crappy Zoom H4n (or a much better setup with a Sound Devices 302 going into Zoom H4n, still an awful setup though!). Or one particular film that will always stand out in my mind which was a Sound Devices 302 running into a Sound Devices 702T, which was very weird for me... as I was seemingly meant to be using 5x Sennheiser G2/G3 wireless with it???? And a boom! wtf

Eventually as I got to know directors, they'd leave the equipment on loan with me. After all, if I was doing every single short film of theirs, why not just let me have the gear in between the shoots? Saves them having to remember to bring it to the shoots. So that's how I ended up getting a borrowed 416 shotgun and blimp plus crappy boom pole from one one director, and a borrowed Sennheiser G3 from another director, with a G2 & G1 wireless from another, getting an Oktava mk-012 hypercardioid boom mic from another, etc. That I just got to keep at home for myself, that I could also use on any another  productions I'd do. 

Eventually I'd gradually upgrade and add to this equipment. Getting a better boom pole, getting my own Sanken CS3e shotgun, getting more of my own wireless (going with Sony UWP-D11 instead of Sennheiser G3 though), getting an AKG CK63 instead of the Oktava, etc etc etc 

(also would sometimes be renting in extra gear when needed to, such as extra Lectrosonics wireless from the rental house. Or even just simply better lav mics than the crappy stock lav mics I was using. Even for gigs that didn't request it, but I thought were paying me a good enough rate I better show up with the gear to justify it) 

I'd try to keep around the borrowed equipment from the directors even after I'd upgraded it, as it's always good to keep spare backups! But as my career progressed I'd get busier, and have to be saying "no" to these directors when they asked me to do sound on their short films because I would have actual paying jobs I needed to do so I couldn't do their freebies any longer.

Thus of course if I wasn't working for them, it made no sense to keep on holding onto their gear, so I'd return it back to them. But it helped me get started onto the track to where I am today! (with a quarter million or so RRP of sound equipment!)

 

10 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

BTW: I still have my a6500, but I can't get decent colors out of it (not the fault of Andrew, just s-log is kind of a disaster on those 8-bit cameras)

Yeah I think in the vast majority of cases people shouldn't use a log profile if recording in 8bit, if they can avoid it. 

10 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

as well as an a6000 (nice 1080p, overheats though) and an a5100 (again, nice 1080p, but REALLY overheats).

IKR!!!! I used to have an a5100, if you just simply stare at it too hard then the thing will have an heart attack and overheat. 

10 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

And as mentioned have a couple of Sony aps-c lenses. Although I should probably sell them soon as long as I can still get SOME money for them???

Eh? The FX30 is an APS-C / S35 camera. 

And Sony's APS-C line up seems to still be going strongly. (ok, not as much focus put into it as say Fujifilm does. And I wish there was a "Sony FX60"!!) As Sony has their a6x00 series of cameras and the FX30 too. (oh, and the Sony ZV-E10 too! Plus any others I'm forgetting??) 

Sony APS-C is definitely not going away any time soon.