Even the latest Zoom H4 now "supports" timecode!

[IronFilm]

A new model, the "Zoom H4essential" just got released today for US$199.

Supports timecode, but only via the Atomos (formerly TCS Ltd) Ultrasync BLUE. The new Zoom H6essential (for US$299) also supports timecode via the same manner as well.

Is interesting seeing even these very low end consumer products are now kinda supporting timecode too.

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/01/25/zoom-adds-three-new-models-to-its-lineup/

[ac6000cw]

No timecode support, but the new 'H1essential' also looks very interesting - 32-bit float recording for $99, in a package that's small enough to mount on a moderately sized camera. It'll be interesting to see how Tascam responds to this.

[IronFilm]

25 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

No timecode support, but the new 'H1essential' also looks very interesting - 32-bit float recording for $99, in a package that's small enough to mount on a moderately sized camera.

Why would you use it? As a way to feed scratch ambience to the camera?? You'd prefer this over say a Shure VP83F on camera mic? 

25 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

It'll be interesting to see how Tascam responds to this.

I wish Tascam would hurry up and update their old Tascam HS-P82 / HD-P2 / DR680 / DR701D. But I am starting to feel I might as well be waiting for pigs to fly. 

[ac6000cw]

29 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Why would you use it? As a way to feed scratch ambience to the camera??

Yes (as the main audio - I'm just using it for amateur outdoor documentary stuff).

It's the 32-bit float that is the attraction, as it makes audio input level adjustment on the recorder something else I don't have to worry about. Same reason I normally use shutter-priority auto exposure for video - it leaves me free to concentrate on framing and holding the camera still (or moving it smoothly).

29 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

You'd prefer this over say a Shure VP83F on camera mic? 

Yes - I want stereo ambient sound but the VP83F is mono super-cardioid (and somewhat larger in size).

I prefer a 90 degree X-Y cardioid stereo configuration, as that gives me the sound-stage width I prefer. I often use a Tascam TM2X stereo on-camera mic (without the extension arm!) as the size versus quality balance of that works for me. I've tried others over the years (both mics and recorders) but that's the one I keep coming back to.

What would be really nice is a mirrorless ILC camera with 32-bit float audio support...

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, ac6000cw said:

It's the 32-bit float that is the attraction, as it makes audio input level adjustment on the recorder something else I don't have to worry about. Same reason I normally use shutter-priority auto exposure for video - it leaves me free to concentrate on framing and holding the camera still (or moving it smoothly).

If you're only filming outdoors, and away from street lights, that probably isn't a major deal breaker to film with shutter priority. 

But personally if I want an easy low fuss approach I'd use the 180 degree shutter rule (tweaked for if you're in a 60KHz or 50KHz country) with manual aperture and auto-ISO (preferably between a couple of limits, if I have the option to set that within the camera). 

That way you hopefully won't get that annoying flicker if you pop indoors for a moment, or shooting under street lamps at night. 

[BTM_Pix]

A word of caution about the Atomos/Zoom partnership when it comes to the Connect module for the Ninja V is that it doesn’t work.

I got the Connect in a bundle with the AtomX Cast so it wasn’t a massive financial hit but it’s annoying nonetheless as I was looking to it to provide sync of my Zoom recorders when recording ProRes RAW. Needless to say no firmware update has been forthcoming.

Which brings me to the second note of caution about their alliance which is that the new Atomos branded UltraSync Blue does not work with my Zoom H3VR due to the same Bluetooth incompatibility with their new chipset whereas the original TimecodeSystems ones do.

My F2BT and F3 with the BTA-1 module work perfectly with it but it’s a no-go for the H3VR and, again, needless to say no new firmware has been forthcoming to resolve it.

It was interesting to see earlier in the week that FujiFilm are releasing a firmware update to allow the XH2 and XH2S to join the Nikon Z8/Z9 in being able to receive timecode from the UltraSync Blue and hopefully Panasonic and Sony might join in to give the option to use their generally underutilised Bluetooth ports (for video at least) for something useful too.

[KnightsFan]

I guess this TC approach is technically better than nothing, but I do not like being vendor locked into a closed, proprietary system. BTM_Pix's post perfectly encapsulates why.

LTC is simple, works well, and has open documentation, so in the absolute worst case, you can fix problems yourself. Not so with UltraSync Blue. Buying a dongle for TC is fine , but if Zoom made a dongle that takes normal LTC via a BNC or 3.5mm, that would be sooooo much better.

[Mark Romero 2]

Kind of bummed to hear that they are doing the Bluetooth thing, and specifically with the Atomos Blue, as I just got Deity TC-1.

Also, noted that the Tascam DR-10L PRO is using the Atomos Blue sync as well. 

[BTM_Pix]

30 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

If Zoom made a dongle that takes normal LTC via a BNC or 3.5mm, that would be sooooo much better.

Oddly enough, Zoom make a product with LTC that is a great all rounder called the M4 MicTrack which virtually no one ever talks about. (Well they did a bit at the start as some early units had noise issues which has been resolved)

It is a 4 channel recorder with stereo mic with two additional simultaneous external mic inputs, all of which are 32 bit float as is the 4 in 2 out USB interface it can act as. 

It is incredibly versatile but ironically I'm at a loss why it doesn't also include the BLE timecode option as when using it handheld that would be more appropriate. In addition they have also missed a trick there as it could have acted as a BLE TC to LTC converter which would make it even more useful for cameras such as BM Pockets which have the LTC in/out.

So I'm not sure even they believe in it fully but then Zoom do make weird choices sometimes such as their music multitrack recorders having MIDI ports but don't support MIDI timecode which renders them a bit pointless for many potential owners.

 

[BTM_Pix]

Obviously should point out in defence of the UltraSync system as a whole that you can use the UltraSync One with the UltraSync Blue to add the LTC component whilst still remaining wireless but at €324 per station versus the €170 per station of the Bluetooth version.

 

[KnightsFan]

39 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Oddly enough, Zoom make a product with LTC that is a great all rounder called the M4 MicTrack which virtually no one ever talks about. (Well they did a bit at the start as some early units had noise issues which has been resolved)

I didn't realize the M4 has LTC. Out of all their products, that's a weird one to have it on when not even the F3 has it. I do like their M-series of recorders in theory, though they aren't quite what I would look for in my uses.

34 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Obviously should point out in defence of the UltraSync system as a whole that you can use the UltraSync One with the UltraSync Blue to add the LTC component whilst still remaining wireless but at €324 per station versus the €170 per station of the Bluetooth version.

True, and a Blue + One is the minimum viable timecode setup for audio/video at this time.

Honestly, with how cheap the Blue is, I would sink ~$200 total into a single proprietary device to sync 6 other devices (e.g. camera(s), boom mic, a few DR-10L Pro's). That's a convenient setup, plus an acceptable loss if the ecosystem disappears in 5 years. But when you have to add a One on as well, the lock in gets more expensive and risky.

Hopefully Ultrasync is banging on Sony, Canon, and Panasonic's doors to add support.

[IronFilm]

10 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

A word of caution about the Atomos/Zoom partnership when it comes to the Connect module for the Ninja V is that it doesn’t work.

I got the Connect in a bundle with the AtomX Cast so it wasn’t a massive financial hit but it’s annoying nonetheless as I was looking to it to provide sync of my Zoom recorders when recording ProRes RAW. Needless to say no firmware update has been forthcoming.

Which brings me to the second note of caution about their alliance which is that the new Atomos branded UltraSync Blue does not work with my Zoom H3VR due to the same Bluetooth incompatibility with their new chipset whereas the original TimecodeSystems ones do.

My F2BT and F3 with the BTA-1 module work perfectly with it but it’s a no-go for the H3VR and, again, needless to say no new firmware has been forthcoming to resolve it.

It was interesting to see earlier in the week that FujiFilm are releasing a firmware update to allow the XH2 and XH2S to join the Nikon Z8/Z9 in being able to receive timecode from the UltraSync Blue and hopefully Panasonic and Sony might join in to give the option to use their generally underutilised Bluetooth ports (for video at least) for something useful too.

That's very worrying that there are all these TC incompatibilities with different bluetooth chipsets. 

Is why they should just use 3.5mm (or even better BNC) for timecode! 

As if you simply do it the good old way of hardwired, as everything should be for TC, then I could take a twenty year old timecode box and sync it up with a modern camera made today. Or I could take a modern timecode box made today and sync it up with a twenty year old camera!

[IronFilm]

  

9 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Kind of bummed to hear that they are doing the Bluetooth thing, and specifically with the Atomos Blue, as I just got Deity TC-1.

Also, noted that the Tascam DR-10L PRO is using the Atomos Blue sync as well. 

Yes, Atomos seems to have been very proactive in working together with lots of other recorder brands (Tascam Portacapture X8 is another model from Tascam as well that does Atomos only TC) and camera brands (Nikon, Fujifilm, etc) to be working together with just them. 

I really wish that others such as Deity and Tentacle would join in and make stuff compatible too. But I guess all of that costs manpower $$$$

9 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Oddly enough, Zoom make a product with LTC that is a great all rounder called the M4 MicTrack which virtually no one ever talks about. (Well they did a bit at the start as some early units had noise issues which has been resolved)

It is a 4 channel recorder with stereo mic with two additional simultaneous external mic inputs, all of which are 32 bit float as is the 4 in 2 out USB interface it can act as. 

It is incredibly versatile but ironically I'm at a loss why it doesn't also include the BLE timecode option as when using it handheld that would be more appropriate. In addition they have also missed a trick there as it could have acted as a BLE TC to LTC converter which would make it even more useful for cameras such as BM Pockets which have the LTC in/out.

So I'm not sure even they believe in it fully but then Zoom do make weird choices sometimes such as their music multitrack recorders having MIDI ports but don't support MIDI timecode which renders them a bit pointless for many potential owners.

 

True, we do indeed all so very easily forget about the Zoom M4 MicTrak. Another big feature about the M4 MicTrak is that it uses the same high quality preamps as are in the Zoom F Series 

If a person is a casual indie filmmaker who just uses a boom (maybe a lav) then the extra $150ish for a M4 MicTrack vs a H4essential is absolutely worth it for the better preamps and the better implementation of timecode. Of course, it's still vastly inferior to having even a Zoom F6 (but that's nearly double the cost). 

Hmmmm.... I might need to have a little think about it, but I wonder if maybe the M4 MicTrak might even be a better buy for some of the casual indie filmmakers than the Zoom F3 is??? (as after all, they have an almost identical price)