Canon struck raw, EVF and brighter zoom from XC10 “for cost reasons”

[Andrew Reid]

The Sony RX10 – $999. OLED EVF. Check. Raw stills, check. F2.8 (constant) Zeiss zoom. Check. The Canon XC10 – $2500 – none of the above.

Here’s why…

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[Cinegain]

For the money you can pick up the FZ1000 and the BMMCC with some decent glass...

I know a few people will see something in the XC10... personally though, I just don't get it.

[Tone1k]

Well said Andrew.

[doodsaq]

I've been in Japan for about 11 years now. That doesn't make me an authority on the Japanese camera market or anything but from what I have seen, the average camera enthusiast is shooting Canon or Nikon. I always approach professional camera men and women and ask about how they like video on their D800 or 5DMK3 or whatever and they all look kinda embarrassed and say, I haven't really gotten into video. When I go to the park there are a lot of old men with 1Ds and giant zooms shooting ducks and birds or kids playing with their parents whatever. I get the impression that the major chuck of the domestic market for these companies is probably not looking at the internet for reviews of lists of specs (I know many people are but probably not the majority), nor are they buying these cameras with the intention of doing something new. They are most likely in their 50s and 60s, with full-time positions in a company and nearing retirement and are reading camera magazines that are basically advertisements for these two companies and then going to the big electronics stores and buying them from salesmen who don't know anything about anything. My beef with Japan is that the older people have all the money and are the largest segment of the population so Japanese business and culture will cater more and more to what they want. This probably means less innovation. Japanese manufacturers are finding it harder to compete internationally so some retreat and focus on the domestic market and that means just playing on nostalgia. If they are confident that their domestic marketing campaigns will allow them flex brand power and sell inferior cameras for higher prices than the competition, they will continue to do it and find the logic of your argument incomprehensible. Like all paradigm shifts, people don't really change their beliefs. The older generation just eventually dies off and the new generation is left to choose between two alternatives and usually chooses different than the prior group because they don't have an emotional commitment to the past. I'm also willing to admit that I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, though.

[William Koehler]

The one thing the XC10 has got is record until the card is full.

 

Having said that Sony could easily take this cameras sales by taking the RX10 and:

1. Enable 4K recording, just like the AX100

2. Remove the clip length limit

3. Sony could even give the price a healthy bump from $999 and most would still be happy.

As it is, many will head to one of Panasonics u4/3rds offerings, methinks.

[johnnymossville]

The one thing the XC10 has got is record until the card is full.

 

Having said that Sony could easily take this cameras sales by taking the RX10 and:

1. Enable 4K recording, just like the AX100

2. Remove the clip length limit

3. Sony could even give the price and healthy bump from $999 and most would still be happy.

As it is, many will head to one of Panasonics u4/3rds offerings, methinks.

​It records until the card is full?   Is this the first Canon to do this?   I believe everyone else figured this out a half dozen years ago. 

[nathanleebush]

This camera is quite possibly the most hubristic camera-spec-to-price-point camera Canon have ever released.

I also think it's hilarious that they even mention the stills 'functionality' in the marketing. Chuck says "It can really do a credible job as either a video or a stills camera, depending on the needs of the user or the project." Uhhh, what? Unless you're a mom at a soccer game, I fail to see how 12mp JPEGs coming off a 1" sensor from a slow fixed lens will meet any photographer's needs. The whole spectacle is really absurd.

Meanwhile Blackmagic announce the URSA Mini with basically every spec I desire outside of internal NDs at a base price only $500 more. It's really fascinating to watch how long you can milk brand loyalty and lens ubiquity before people wake up that you're selling the same thing for 3 times the price, while your competitor (BM) undercuts everyone else by half with almost 1/100th the manpower.

[GEORGE]

This would be a great present to my 10 yrld neice... Actually she would prob laugh at me and return it for  a Panasonic fz1000 and a Mac....

[Guy Calaf]

Canon has the capability to really push its products and workflow forward but as you've been pointing out for quite a while now, it's going in the exact opposite direction. At one point last year I owned a C100, C300, C500 and two 5diii.  Needed them for work. Now I'm down to a C500 and one 5diii and I'll be glad when I'll have phased out canon all together from my workflow. The owner operator market needs smart, reliable tools that work and produce beautiful images. 

I wish they produced 3 pro dslrs,

1) a new super 35 1DC priced just bellow 10k,  with 10bit compressed 4k 60p, 2k 120p on two Cfast and the capacity to shoot 20mb stills. 

2) a 5dIV, full frame with 4k 30p 10 bit and 2k 60p on the full frame, and stills.

3) a better version of the 7D markII with a nice 10bit 2k 60p, and stills.

C300 mark II could work, but no one has seen any real tests yet. The short film is non indicative of the camera's look. If I had to rely on that, it looks like a 4k version of the 8 bit 50mbs that the c300 shoots. Same hard fall outs, no creaminess, very plastic and video just as the c300 was. Raw on the C500 is nice but the worflow is not great and while laying out new products they should have updated their pathetic software and workflow. 

I hope the rumors of a new beyond 4k C500 are not true, since Canon will not be successful in that market while making junkie cameras like the xc10. That's Arri and Red territory, and they don't make any crappy cameras. 

I got good use out of the C500 with the 7q, but that's the last Canon Cinema camera I'll be buying.

[JazzBox]

Probably Canon ignores that internet exists and some people use it, finding informations about prices, specs etc...

A friend of a friend that has a friend that work for them sent me this super secret picture of a new model that will be on the market in June: they developed a new camera that uses REAL reel, in order to achieve a real "raw" feel. 
The first model will have fixed lens (20x OPTICAL!!! wow!!!), EVF, some buttons and... no, it will be not cheap, but enthusiast have to spend if they are serious about video making!
(I hope it will be possible install ML on it!)

 

[IronFilm]

JazzBox, how did you manage to get your hands on an early pre-production copy?? :-o

[BookMark]

almost as if they want to play a game in "seeing impossible" a.k.a. how many box we can avoid ticking..... 

[Oliver Daniel]

This is the worst camera release I've ever seen. I wonder how many sales they have so far? 

I reckon I could get the GH4, the FZ1000 and the LX100 for the price of the XC10. 

[BookMark]

that's interesting point. one observation i realise recently is that i read / hear people say how amazing FZ1000 and GX7 are but i dont remember seeing them at least once being used outside a shop... i work normal office hours and my daily commute requires me walking through central london with plenty of tourists.... would be interesting to see how many tourist i see with XC10 in the coming months.... 

[k-robert]

OMG....

I have been shooting with Canon for many years, never got any feelings about it, they were just tools. But nowadays, I am getting personal feeling about Canon.
It is embarrassing. You treat me like an idiot.

What cost-saving? This is a bloody expensive camera.
Without any lens, you could have realized even more "cost-saving".
No RAW while cost-saving.... Even my little cousin knows, that first comes the RAW then the JPEG.

Shame.
This is my other favorite.Canon tells us about their fantastic 4K lenses. 
Oohhh, yes, they are able to resolve 8MP...
And now you think, what should you put on your 50+MP topmodel
 

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

that's interesting point. one observation i realise recently is that i read / hear people say how amazing FZ1000 and GX7 are but i dont remember seeing them at least once being used outside a shop... i work normal office hours and my daily commute requires me walking through central london with plenty of tourists.... would be interesting to see how many tourist i see with XC10 in the coming months.... 

​Will give you a clue... none.

Because the camcorder market is dead. And the rest will use their smartphones or existing Canikons.

The LX100 has a better chance on the streets. It's small and I still remember the days when all the tourists will using TZ3s and LX2s. Still room for a high end compact. The XC10 isn't compact.

[JazzBox]

JazzBox, how did you manage to get your hands on an early pre-production copy?? :-o

​My friend has a  modified DeLorean and went in early 1996
He also told me that next summer we will listen to some brand new songs: Cosmic Girl from Jamiroquai, Stranger in Moscow from Michael Jackson, Fastlove from George Michael... I look forward to listen them :D

[JazzBox]

OMG....

I have been shooting with Canon for many years, never got any feelings about it, they were just tools. But nowadays, I am getting personal feeling about Canon.
It is embarrassing. You treat me like an idiot.

What cost-saving? This is a bloody expensive camera.
Without any lens, you could have realized even more "cost-saving".
No RAW while cost-saving.... Even my little cousin knows, that first comes the RAW then the JPEG.

Shame.
This is my other favorite.Canon tells us about their fantastic 4K lenses. 
Oohhh, yes, they are able to resolve 8MP...
And now you think, what should you put on your 50+MP topmodel
 

 

 

​Exactly! I loved Canon cameras and I started to shoot with them!

I still feel that the ergonomics is great in 70D...  But we all can see that they try to treat us like a bunch of sucker...  and it's a shame!
Furthermore it should be embarrassing for them to see what their camera can do with Magic Lantern and they just stick their heads in the sand...

This XC10 at 2500 $ is just offensive.

[Jimmy]

All these cheap cameras mentioned shoot 10 stops max DR with poorer colour.

I guess image quality just isn't worth paying for?

[Daniel Acuña]

That's it, I'll just buy an Arri Alexa 65!