B-camera to the Nikon D750?

[red]

Afternoon All,

I had been shooting with a Nikon D800 for a few years and have upgraded the body to a D750 and use it primarily to shoot small family events with a Nikon 24-70 and 50mm.
 
The D750 should offer a lot more video-centric features over the D800 and  produce decent 1080p footage. I did think about a move to a GH4 set-up but stuck with the Nikon kit I had invested heavily in.
 
I am looking for a second body to serve as a B-Camera to allow for more varied footage. I can't quite afford another D750 and a 24-70 set-up so am looking at the D7200 and D5500. I would then pair it with the 35/50 primes or the Sigma 18-35 1.8 to allow some flexibility.
 
The D5500 looks good value but annoyingly you can't change the aperture during live view which was also the case with the D5200 and D5300 but people still produced good footage and rave on about the decent 1080p.
 
Would you still recommend a D5500 or something else? How would I be able to quickly change the ISO or Aperture to correctly expose if the scene suddenly got too bright or dark whilst shooting something?
 
 Thanks.
 
 Red

[Fourtogaraffia]

GH4 and a Metabones Speedbooster? This is my two camera set up and it works OK for me. I use the GH4 for wide angle stuff (with the inherent ability at 4K to crop in to 1080) and the D750 for closer framing.

I have found it difficult to match the looks of the footage so far but I like the versatility of the setup, being able to use the same lenses. The D750 is better in very low light which (for me) addresses this 'shortcoming' of the GH4. 

[IronFilm]

I'd go with the D5200, is one of my main cameras and goes for so cheap these days it is practically disposable. I think the live view / aperture thing by people is severally over blown, I find it to be a trival concern to work with. 

 

As it is a Nikon too it should be easiest to match in post. 

 

http://www.eoshd.com/2013/02/nikon-d5200-review/

[red]

I had the GH4 and Metabones Speedbooster idea at the back of my mind so I could potentially use my Nikon lenses but am worried about how to match the different looks of the footage and it's low light capabilities unless I used the Sigma 1.8 to get a decent FOV of the event.

The Nikon produces very good skin tones and requires little to no post processing to get decent output onto DVD/Blu-ray/USB.

The 4K of the GH4 could open up a new opportunity for a solo shooter.

The D5500 has the flat colour profile to make cutting the footage easier but then falls short on offering the ability to change exposure quickly.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Using another Nikon will mean

-Having the exact same user interface, button philosophy, same live view feel and focus assists. 
-Ability to interchange lenses natively, no single issue or adapter fiddling
-Exact same colour science and Log (flat) gamma, meaning you can grade a D750 shot and copy/paste the grade to a D5500 and get 100% perfect match
-The D5500 will serve you insituations where you need a smaller/lighter video/photo camera, and when you need a fully articulating screen as in crash cam siuations and self shooting, some D750 can't do.

This is my argument, B cam for D750 (if you like the image greatly) is a D5500. Any other choice will have a completely different colour science, completely different skin colours, gamma curve, sharpness level, noise structure, and overall feel, so you'll spend a great deal of time matching in post. Nikon does have a very unique feel and colour which complicates it even further

D750 + D5500 produce one of the most pleasing images out there.

[Liam]

would you not consider lenses with an aperture ring? maybe you'd prefer the electronics in the lens or they'd be a little harder to match since they're usually vintage. Would the nx1's colors be easier to match with a Nikon than a GH4's would? I don't know about good electronic adapters for the nx mount. throwing some stuff out there

[homestar_kevin]

If you want to stay Nikon for the ease of set up, then the d5300 is probably the best happy spot.

Still has 1080/60p, the swivel screen and great performance/colors.

You can use all your current lenses and it's cheap!

I only have a few Nikon lenses without an aperture ring, but even so, using them for video on my d7100 has never really been an issue. Just pop out of live view, change the aperture based on the exposure meter, then pop back. it takes no time at all really.

That said I've also been using Nikon G adapters to use my lenses on other cameras (black magic pocket, and soon the nx1) and everything's been great when using them with the pocket.

The aperture control is on the adapter so it's very simple to use/get used to.


I think your biggest question is to figure out if you want to stay with nikon and keep everything in one house and simple in post, or do you want to open your options to the wealth of other cameras out there that have excellent features that the nikons don't have, but require a bit of getting used to in post.

 

 

 

 

 

[red]

@IronFilm The D5200 is a good shout but wouldn't mind the D5300/D5500 for a few features such as WiFi and newer sensor. The second hand market like you said for D5200 would allow for potential B and even C cameras on the cheap.

What lenses do you use on your D5200?

Is the live-view / aperture thing really over blown? I am confused as to how you would change the aperture whilst shooting say a cake cutting or speeches and suddenly the lighting changes. Would getting out of live-view stop the recording? Sorry to sound clueless but I never had these short comings from the D800 and just seeing how I could effectively use the D5500 type cameras in a live shoot situation without always being able to predetermine the shot.

@Ebrahim Saadawi all your points make perfect sense. The speed at which the footage can be cut in post is a bonus as allows for quick turnaround of small events. The ligther camera can also double up for any personal projects. I do think Nikon have a very unique feel and colour hence wanted to stick with my kit and not jump ship to a total GH4 set-up.

@Liam I could not find a decent aperture ring zoom similar to the Sigma 18-35 so not sure and also the motor in D5500 will not auto-focus them in stills mode. The NX1 workflow would mean investing in a new machine to edit which I don't want to do just yet.

@homestar_kevin good shout on the D5300 also as can be picked up cheap.

Can you explain the 'Just pop out of live view, change the aperture based on the exposure meter, then pop back.' a bit more please in a shoot situation?

At the moment I would like to keep Nikon and keep everything in one house and simple in post.

If was to have something else to complement the D750 then the GH4, RX10, FZ1000 spring to mind along with GX7 or A6000 but would all require some work to match the look of the Nikon.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

The live issue is just that you cannot change aperture while recording. You can stop recording, flick out of liveview, change it, then go back and shoot. So to change exposure during recording you will have to do it by changing ISO or shutter speed, or better a Variable ND filter, which will makes the changes smoothly. 

The thing is I never found changing aperture while shooting a good idea anyway, because it's not step-less and makes jumps on Nikon lenses plus it affects depth of field, so whenever I need to change exposure I do it with ISO (also jumps) or a variable ND filter (smooth).

[red]

@Ebrahim Saadawi thanks again for your input. What camera and lenses do you use?

​I am aware that changing the aperture and iso can result in the footage jumping but I would usually cut into something else to overcome this currently. The D750 is going to solve this issue in the future because it can auto adjust without the jumping.

As for the B-camera such as the D5500 I had not thought about solely relying on the ISO to solve the issue or get a ND filter. Which ND filter do you currently have or recommend? I would most likely need to use it when the lighting can't be controlled if shooting near a window or the venue isn't evenly lit.

 

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Answering what cameras I use, I am in a transitional period now between having worked with DSLRs and sold them and now in the period of finding a bigger better video camera. The only cameras I own now are a Nikon D5300, the Canon 60D, and a few rebels. They all sit at home anyway as real work is taking all the time and now I am waiting to get back to my video company after I finish. I bought a GH4 5 months after it came out, I tested it heavily next to the D5300 and I found that I like the D5300 better, for the life of me I just couldn't figure out why I hated the GH4 image, it's not pretty at all. Then after selling it I got a chance to loan the D810 for two weeks and tested it through various conditions, I fell in love with the image, a full frame D5300, just the perfect blend of colour, gamma, noise, depth of field, skin, file sizes, resolution, DR, everything, but against my nerdy desires I didn't purchase it in the end as I knew I'd want to buy a bigger real video camera anyway soon and step away from SLRs. I also tried the a7s and shot some time with it and kind of liked it but the colours were not pretty and overall it didn't give me the image I could fall in love with like the D810. If business and marketing didn't require me to buy a bigger camera to get more clients, I would be shooting on a D810 or a D750 and exchange my D5300 for a D5500 (for the Flat profile) as a B cam because in my opinion they are the best images regardless of any specs. I wish Someone made a real video camera that has the nikon image but with XLRs, NDs, Microphone, Rotatble grip, assignable buttons, zebras/peaking, HD SDI in a sizable pro package, because I don't want to leave the Nikon image but I have to go with a real video camera now, a pitty. Listening Nikon? Give us a cinema camera! 

 

Anyhow regardless of the rant, about you situation, The D750 has a special feature called Auto ISO in manual mode, so you can set your aperture & shutter while the camera smoothly adjusts exposure with ISO according to the scene brightness, it's absolutely genius and 100% perfectly implemented as I have tried it on the D810. 

Anyway this feature is only available on the D810, the D750, and the new D7200. 

On the D5500, you will need to shoot at manual, set your aperture and shutter, and just change ISO when the scene changes exposure, that how I do it. But remember the moments you are changing exposure at will need to be cut away in the edit because it's not a smooth transition. This is the best/easiest option if you can live with cutting out the adjusting moment. 

The other option that will give you smooth exposure transition whilst shooting is a variable ND filter. It's an ND filter that changes intensity by turning the ring in front of the lens causing smooth exposure changing. Any decent kind/brand will work just google variable ND filter and buy the one that matches your lens front diameter size. I think for your specific situation where you want a B cam for the D750 that can change exposure smoothly is getting a D5500 and a variable ND solution. Don't get the D5300 as it doesn't have the Flat Log type profile which will make it harder to match the D750 unless you shoot at standard on both. If you shoot Flat on the D750 the D5500 is the one to get. 

 

[IronFilm]

@red, they don't have a new sensor. It is like the sensor in the D800 vs D810, essentially the same!  I'd recommend the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 with it. As for changing light, does it really matter? You surely won't be using it as your A cam anyway. As you've got D750 after all. So it will be your semi unmanned camera instead I'd presume. 

[homestar_kevin]

Yeah, on my d7100 I'll just stop recording, exit live view, change aperture and start recording again.

I dont' really change exposure settings too much while recording.

It was a big trepidation before buying the camera, but really is not a big deal at all and hasn't ever hampered me too much while shooting.

[Richard Bugg]

I agree with Ebrahim about the D750 + D5500 with ND option for the reasons described. I have the D750 and D5300 with Tiffen Vari ND (see, for example: http://www.learningvideo.com/variable-nd-filter-shootout/ ).  Being able to swap lenses between cameras is a good option. I have both the Sigma 35 1.4 ART, 18-35 1.8, and Nikon 35 1.8g DX, but far prefer the Sigmas due to their nicely smooth focus rings and overall solid feel. All are sharp. The D750 with Sigma 35 1.4 is a great combination. Both the D750 and D5300 make good stills cameras with reasonably consistent menu structures. Changing exposure on the D5300 can be done in Live View while recording by changing ISO as indicated by Ebrahim. I think that unless I wanted to change DOF for some reason during a shot, either ISO or Variable ND would be a preferable way to manipulate exposure in most circumstances.

[Inazuma]

Just be aware that according to the following articles, the d5500 is slightly softer and less capable in low light than the d5300.

http://cameras.reviewed.com/content/nikon-d5300-digital-camera-review/the-science

http://cameras.reviewed.com/content/nikon-d5500-digital-camera-review/the-science

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Just be aware that according to the following articles, the d5500 is slightly softer and less capable in low light than the d5300.

http://cameras.reviewed.com/content/nikon-d5300-digital-camera-review/the-science

http://cameras.reviewed.com/content/nikon-d5500-digital-camera-review/the-science

Resolution test inaccuracy here is due to using different lenses.​ Nikon never made a step back in video quality in a newer generation model, I highly suspect it did it here, especially after all reviewers seeing it makes better images & better video & better ergonomics. 

​D5500 image is an exact replica of the D750, i.e, slightly cleaner and detailed vs D5300/D3300. The sensor is cleaner too. 

http://***URL removed***/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr29_0=nikon_d5500&attr29_1=nikon_d750&normalization=full&widget=67&x=-0.5775709388625363&y=-0.12241503510412968
 

[Inazuma]

Oh I see

And what about it has better images & better video & better ergonomics?

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Oh I see

And what about it has better images & better video & better ergo fnomics?

​Well not by a ton, but it has a better high ISO performance, small but not negligble, I'd say around 1/2-1 stop at the middle 3200/6400. Video is slight, just ever so slightly improved in resolution and now identical to D750, plus the Flat profile makes a big difference vs the baked-in D5300 (that went gray with negative contrast), and the picture profiles now offers a finer control over parameters, you can dial in sharpening/saturation/tone in 0.25 increments and tune it better to your image, and it has viggentte correction for both stills and video. And in terms of ergonomics, it's just better to hold by a fair margin, and the touch screen is a major ergonomic step, even a better implementation than the Canons. And I noticed small cool improvements like the addition of exposure smoothing in in-camera timelapse from the D4s, and you can set the image number beyond 99. The audio menu seemed more featured too with more contol over gain/sensitivity/wide range/voice direction/wind cut/meters whilst recording. And the battery is ''said" to last about 20% better. 
 

It's all small little improvements but as a whole it just feels much better now. I think I'll trade my D5300 since it won't cost much. 

One sad thing though, these Nikon cameras are a nightmare of cluttered absolutely useless crap all over the place compared to Canon. They have a mode for "pet portrait" yet still can't offer one dedicated for video, and can't change iris in liveview, and the focus assist zoom is horrible vs Canon. These are my only complaints, give me a simpler UI, give me a video mode, change iris in liveview and offer snappy punch in without a frame rate drop. These are still all in the D5500, otherwise it's an excellent cinema camera with a unique stock character.

[Inazuma]

Thanks for the info And have you tried the Canon T6s at all? How does the image compare to the Nikon?

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Yup, briefly in the store just like the D5500  I compared the image to the 70D not the D5500, but from relativity, I'd say the image is pretty much like the D5500, about the same resolution, lowlight, overall look. Both a huge step up from the 70D. I do like the Nikon colours more though for some reason. From very brief testing I'd say this, both are similar but 

1-760D is a much nicer body, it's bigger, just the perfect size and not too small like the D5500, has a top LCD, has more direct buttons and separate iris & shutter dials (and it works in liveview!), better grip, the Wifi Facebook upload thing is much better implemented than the D5500 (it's an interest of mine to directly share pgotos to social media so I tried it on all wifi enabled cameras and this is the first one that I could actually use, works a treat, just take a photo, press facebook, upload, done. Liveview is better implemented with a separate movie mode cropped, perfect punch in focus assist, much simpler UI, just a better experience overall. I put these all under one point because it's pretty much just a more ergonomic and friendly body,

2- 760D has a perfectly usable video AF with touch to focus and tracking, D5500 is unusable. You really can use AF for pro video here. 

3- There's a 299$ 10-18mm IS STM ultra wide available! 

D5500 merits: 

1-60p at 1080p. Canon still stuck at 2009 720p 60p

2-Can use external recorders, clean HDMI out WITH audio AND start/stop trigger 

3-Flat/log picture profile 

4-Personal: better colours and 'lively' feel. 

If you're choosing between these cameras it should come down to AF vs 60p to be honest, these are the real differences others can be worked around and are personal.