eatstoomuchjam Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 10gE is plenty fast for a lot of things and as you said, on many productions, the camera ultimately spends more time stopped than it does rolling. Though also for a lot of productions that I'm on, at least, it would be far from ideal to need to keep the camera tethered to a network switch so that somebody could continuously offload footage. Though for the sort of productions that take 30+ minutes to move the camera, etc, I'm sure it would be great... though for productions with that sort of time/budget, $1600 is a no-brainer for a second module for the DIT to swap back and forth. Anyway, it's cool storage and I hope it becomes some sort of standard, even if for the sorts of stuff I do, CF Express will continue to be more than fast enough for a while to come. kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulioD Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 I think it can also offload over wifi. More useful if not needing to be hard connected. I suspect the slower speed wouldn’t be noticed much either. I think they’re planning. Magazine with dual CFe cards aren’t they? 10Ge surely is faster than a CFe card over usb-c ? most dits have ssd local raids in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 51 minutes ago, JulioD said: 10Ge surely is faster than a CFe card over usb-c ? 10G ethernet is only 10Gbit / 1.2GB/s but CFExpress cards can exceed this. This test from Petapixel shows speeds up to 2.8GB/s and most of the models tested exceeded 1.2GB/s. If BM put dual CFExpress cards in the camera then in theory this could double that throughput too. The ethernet standard is designed for maximum throughput with cables up to 100 meters/yards long and the 10G standard for copper was announced in 2006 so it's hardly a new standard, and stuffing data through long cables is an entirely different challenge to transmitting it an inch or two! eatstoomuchjam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulioD Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 I’m talking about to offload. a CFe card would go into a USB-C reader right? not the card. Not in the camera. In the reader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 9 minutes ago, JulioD said: I’m talking about to offload. a CFe card would go into a USB-C reader right? not the card. Not in the camera. In the reader. That's what I'm talking about too. My post compared the speed of CFExpress over USB with the speeds of 10G Ethernet. eatstoomuchjam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Exactly. 10gE is only 1.2 gigabytes per second. The CF Express card in a reader can do more than 2 gigabytes per second. If you run 25gE (about 3 gigabytes/second), you'll probably be able to keep up with a single CF Express card. With 100gE, you can do 12.5 gigabytes/second, optimally, but I'm willing to bet you'll find that there are weird limitations in the software stack that prevent you from getting close to that - at least over SMB or similar. You could also do multiple interfaces in the server and make sure that SMB multichannel is enabled on the client and the server. I haven't tested it, but in theory, newer versions of Windows (and Samba) support it. At this moment, I don't feel any need to optimize beyond having 10gE for my stuff. I guess if I cared that much about getting the fastest possible offload, I could just carry the card/reader into the basement and direct connect them to my server. Even on shoots where we're running two cameras and shooting raw, I don't think I've ever generated more than about 1.5T in a day. Offloading it over 10gE takes about half an hour when I get home. That's about as long as it takes me to carry all the gear from my car into the house. So my perspective is clearly not that of a high-budget production. 😛 kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dolega Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 I hope they enable using the 6K Pocket EVF with the USB-C EVF port. From what I've seen it connects to the Pockets with USB anyways. Would be a nice affordable alternative to the new EVF. A side screen for menus/settings is fine, but having it be 4" seems unnecessary, at least if the body is bigger than it has to be to accommodate it. Hopefully there is a way to easily switch it on/off so it's not sucking battery all the time. I'd much prefer the camera be cheaper and smaller, with maybe a 2" screen for menus, and then they sell a separate 4" monitor with some buttons on it (like a C200 or FS/FX screen), with some 1/4-20's for mounting hardware, that connects to that USB-C EVF port. Or maybe leave the buttons off so it can be cheaper, then refresh the Video Assists and let them have the controls. The new Micro Panel looks nice. KnightsFan and kye 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 43 minutes ago, Al Dolega said: A side screen for menus/settings is fine, but having it be 4" seems unnecessary, at least if the body is bigger than it has to be to accommodate it. Hopefully there is a way to easily switch it on/off so it's not sucking battery all the time. I'd much prefer the camera be cheaper and smaller, with maybe a 2" screen for menus, and then they sell a separate 4" monitor with some buttons on it (like a C200 or FS/FX screen), with some 1/4-20's for mounting hardware, that connects to that USB-C EVF port. Or maybe leave the buttons off so it can be cheaper, then refresh the Video Assists and let them have the controls. My thoughts exactly. Actually, all I want is a Z Cam E2-F6 with faster readout, and if I'm really making wishes then I want Resolve to include Zlog2 color management. Other than that, the F6 is my perfect camera, because it sort of has what you describe: a tiny menu screen, builtin low latency USB/Wifi monitoring, and plenty of 1/4-20's. eatstoomuchjam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 2 hours ago, KnightsFan said: Actually, all I want is a Z Cam E2-F6 with faster readout, and if I'm really making wishes then I want Resolve to include Zlog2 color management. Other than that, the F6 is my perfect camera, because it sort of has what you describe: a tiny menu screen, builtin low latency USB/Wifi monitoring, and plenty of 1/4-20's. And the E2-F6 Pro is even closer to what is described since it has a removable integrated screen with controls and SDI for lower-latency monitoring - not sure it's worth the extra $1000 to me, though. 😛 As for faster readout on the E2-F6, if you're willing to sacrifice around a stop of dynamic range, there's a low jello mode (though I can't remember what limits there are on using it - it may not be available in all resolutions/frame rates). I've never found the F6 jello too objectionable so I never bothered turning it on to figure out how much it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 3 hours ago, Al Dolega said: The new Micro Panel looks nice. It does, although as an owner of the current Micro panel I won't be rushing out to buy it. TBH, the panels have a bit of a controversy around them because BM seems to stop short of making them fully-featured. The feedback I hear from colourists is that the Mini is the best one because it has the buttons for controlling OFX plugins etc that the Micro doesn't, but users of both the Mini and Advanced panels frequently say that there are little things that aren't on the panels and BM refuses to make them customisable, so users have to keep a keyboard or mouse or tablet handy on the desk for just one or two frequent operations. In this sense, BM are like Apple - you do things their way and it's take-it-or-leave-it. To a certain degree the lack of customisation on the panels reflects the lack of more advanced features being built into Resolve, which means that people have to put together custom workflows with nodes in strange configurations etc, which of course aren't easily usable from the panels because the panels aren't customisable - even the Advanced panel at ~$28,000. I see quite a number of grading suite setups with a tablet as the main item directly in front of the user, then a panel behind that. Personally, I've tried to colour directly from the panel but the limitations in terms of what Resolve comes with has lead me away from it and to even develop my own custom tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 18 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said: And the E2-F6 Pro is even closer to what is described since it has a removable integrated screen with controls and SDI for lower-latency monitoring - not sure it's worth the extra $1000 to me, though. 😛 As for faster readout on the E2-F6, if you're willing to sacrifice around a stop of dynamic range, there's a low jello mode (though I can't remember what limits there are on using it - it may not be available in all resolutions/frame rates). I've never found the F6 jello too objectionable so I never bothered turning it on to figure out how much it helps. More than $1k if you buy used. I saw one for <2k and almost got it, but that was when I was still waiting to see what BM would announce. I actually prefer the non-pro even for the same price because NP batteries are better for me. I use the app for monitoring so I don't want the monitor and don't need SDI. BNC timecode and more F buttons would be nice, though. IIRC F6 low jello is a crop mode, right? On the M4 it was a separate full sensor readout with considerably more noise. I rarely used it because it hurt the image too much--that MFT sensor definitely had no DR or noise to spare. eatstoomuchjam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 1 hour ago, KnightsFan said: IIRC F6 low jello is a crop mode, right? On the M4 it was a separate full sensor readout with considerably more noise. I rarely used it because it hurt the image too much--that MFT sensor definitely had no DR or noise to spare. I think it crops, but not a lot. 🙂 The M4 is the same sensor as the original E2 and I always found the DR to be fine on it (I wish the high dynamic range mode had worked better) and the noise was fine for me as long as the image was exposed to the right. If you exposed at all to the left, though... noise city. In the end, I sold it because I didn't need the high frame rates so much and other than that, there was nothing it did that the F6 didn't do better. Good point about used prices, btw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Cam likes the PYXIS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanzzxx Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 I mean I like this guy's style but he is a sales person through and through. Manufacturer sends him gear, he's hyped over the moon THIS ONE THING WILL CHANGE FILMMAKING FOREVER, and on to the next thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 5 hours ago, seanzzxx said: I mean I like this guy's style but he is a sales person through and through. Manufacturer sends him gear, he's hyped over the moon THIS ONE THING WILL CHANGE FILMMAKING FOREVER, and on to the next thing I don't see him (this guy in particular) like that, I mean, take a look on his other videos on NAB topic :- ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Urquhart Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 On 4/16/2024 at 8:03 AM, Al Dolega said: A side screen for menus/settings is fine, but having it be 4" seems unnecessary, at least if the body is bigger than it has to be to accommodate it. Hopefully there is a way to easily switch it on/off so it's not sucking battery all the time. I'd much prefer the camera be cheaper and smaller, with maybe a 2" screen for menus, and then they sell a separate 4" monitor with some buttons on it (like a C200 or FS/FX screen), BMD’s menu system and OS is already designed around a 4-5” screen. It’s a great OS and menu too! To make one for a two inch screen would require a complete redesign. Im not sure they would save much money by doing this TBH. I think the side screen works. Means you can change settings and get a visual, useful if rigging the camera on a gimble, car etc just for lining up. IronFilm and MurtlandPhoto 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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