Nikon N-Line the new Canon C-Line for video?

[EduPortas]

It's safe to asume photography has taken a back-seat to video.

Yeah yeah ppl take lots of (crappy) photos each day, but the real growth is basically in video: TikTok, Instagram reels, Twitch and YouTube.

Those are videocentric social media platforms that people have embraced and nothing seems to be able to stop them.

 

I think Nikon will aggresively try to capture this market with new N-Line devices.

We're talking amateur and pro-gear with high-quality codecs and lenses. These devices will NOT be designed in the mold of photographic cameras of Nikon.

They will be an entirely new line that will merit a new badge like the C-Line cameras from Canon.

Video gear for a video centered world.

 

In about a year we'll see the first Nikon N-Line camera.

[Danyyyel]

I don't see it at all in this way. Nikon tried and tried setting a foot in the video world and just never could even with the best hybrid cameras to date. With the acquisition of RED, they just kicked the door open. I mean they went from nobody, to the company that can boast the last "The Flash, Dr Strange and squid game were shot on their RED cameras". They have gone where no Canon or Panasonic camera has gone before... So, this is why I don't see them getting rid of the RED brand for the foreseeable future.

Even more so that they don't want to lose that very specific Hollywood user base. Their luck is that the latest global shutter 8k vista vision (larger than full frame) sensor camera, will ensure them some time as it will have a following in the action and VFX heavy movie market. 

So my guess we will see the Nikon mirrorless cameras that will cater for the lower end of the market, with the likes of z6iii to Z9 having redcode raw, color science etc, and above that, newer models of Komodo to Vraptor, with Nikon blazing fast autofocus and Ibis, that would make them very competitive against the likes of Sony. As nikon already has not only the tech, but also the volume and infrastructure. What I mean in terms of volume is that the xspeed 7 chip in the Z9 already can do 8k 60 fps raw, with the autofocus, blazing fast viewfinder and IO, in one chip running is a dslr style body!!!! As jarred himself said, it is very very powerful. This could replace the ASIC chip that cost 50 millions for red to produce for just some thousands cameras. The Xspeed will be produced for millions of cameras and is already in the 2000 USD ZF camera. They also have their professional NPS system, that could get service to RED owners around the world. 

So my only question is if Nikon will produce a FX3 style of camera. That is one that is about same price as a z8 camera. Or will they have Nikon mirrorless 700 USD to 5500 USD, and Red Komodo 6000 usd to V-Raptor X 30 000 usd. I don't see the RED brand disappearing for at least decade if ever. It could be the genesis of Toyota. 

 

[kye]

6 hours ago, EduPortas said:

In about a year we'll see the first Nikon N-Line camera.

I think that @Danyyyel makes a good point about the reputation and brand recognition of RED, so I suspect they will keep that in tact.

However, a Nikon N-Line is completely possible.  The growth of TikTok etc as video-centric platforms is absolutely true, but I don't think that the cameras that RED currently offer are really where the action is.  If you want to make a line of cameras that are designed for shooting for social media, I'd imagine that this new N-Line would be:

• MILC cameras with serious video features (like the Z9) all the way down to some select "creator" cameras with fixed lenses (like the G7X or Osmo Pocket 3 etc)
• Log // RAW shooting - potentially with REDRAW because why the hell not?

That would mean that Nikon would overhaul their own product lines to have better video (assisted by the techs and technology from RED), a new N-Line with video-centric and ease-of-workflow features, and keep RED as the professional cinema line for working professionals.

Currently the market seems to have two kinds of cameras - hybrids for amateurs and cine cameras for working pros.  The gap is that the market also contains a huge number of "professional content creators" who are working professionals but have completely different needs to the amateurs and also the video professionals, which is why we lament the poor / limited / crippled functionality of the hybrid cameras and also lament the lack of flexibility in the cinema camera product lines.

[IronFilm]

12 minutes ago, kye said:

However, a Nikon N-Line is completely possible.  The growth of TikTok etc as video-centric platforms is absolutely true, but I don't think that the cameras that RED currently offer are really where the action is.  If you want to make a line of cameras that are designed for shooting for social media, I'd imagine that this new N-Line would be:

I'd suggest Nikon needs something a heck of a lot cheaper than the Z9 to capture the TikTok / IG / YT crowd. 

What I'd suggest is a pair of cameras:

Nikon N3 (i.e. a Nikon FX3, and priced as such), put basically a large format Komodo into Nikon's spin on a FX3 body (i.e. it's "mirrorless" but with a better design for filming with, such as more mounting points, TC input, a built cooling fan, etc)

Nikon N30 (i.e. a Nikon FX30, and priced as such), put basically a Komodo (but sticking with S35, rather than going with LF) into Nikon's spin on a FX30 body (i.e. it's "mirrorless" but with a better design for filming with, such as more mounting points, TC input, a built cooling fan, etc)

16 minutes ago, kye said:

Currently the market seems to have two kinds of cameras - hybrids for amateurs and cine cameras for working pros.  The gap is that the market also contains a huge number of "professional content creators" who are working professionals but have completely different needs to the amateurs and also the video professionals, which is why we lament the poor / limited / crippled functionality of the hybrid cameras and also lament the lack of flexibility in the cinema camera product lines.

What there needs to be is a very smooth transition from the low end no budget shooters all the way up to the highest-end productions. 

Sony is dominant partially because they've done this so very perfectly, for example a person could easily do this progression of cameras (either buying or renting them along the way as they progress):

Sony ZV-E10 (or even older cheaper secondhand models such as a Sony NEX5 or whatever) => FX30 => FX6 => FX9 => VENICE 

Canon sort of almost did this themselves, which also contributed to their dominance as well before Sony took the throne, such as back in the day:

Canon T2i => 60D => 5Dmk3 => C100 => C300 , with just the absolute very top end of the market after the C300mk1 was lacking from Canon back then. 

It's actually even worse now for Canon as they have with the RF Mount (example step stones here for a path of progression for a new user):

Canon R100 => R10 => R6 => R5 C => C70 => ....nothing???

To have the RF Mount range of cameras for filmmaking from Canon max out at only the C70 level (which is a lot lower than the C300 was positioned at, relatively speaking back in the day) is a problem for Canon. I assume if a C300mk4 ever comes out, that will have a RF Mount and partially fix this issue? But Canon still lacks any answer for the VENICE (or BURANO). 

Nikon has a massive opportunity to do here something that only Sony has currently, have a perfectly seamless upgrade path from the cheapest entry level camera for your kid, all the way up to the cameras used on the biggest Blockbuster AAA Movie Titles, with no gaps along the way where users might drop out and be lost at. 

It's not just about career progression either, you're also making it easier for a mixed bunch of users to work together. 

I'm shooting a short film on a FX9 and I've got a mate starting out who has a FX3 who wants to come along to shoot a 50/50 mix of promotional BTS footage and B Cam setups for the film itself? Perfect!!

Or we're filming a feature film on a couple of VENICE cameras but we've got a big action day where we want heaps more cameras to get all the coverage we need? (especially if there are crashes/explosions, it might be a one time only opportunity to capture these moments for the films) No problem! We rent out all the available FX9 bodies available locally to be the C / D / E Cams, and we buy half a dozen FX30 bodies (or even Sony RX0 cameras!) to position strategically to be crash cams (if we lose the cameras, no big deal! So long as we can salvage the footage from the SD cards). 

Or maybe a director is scouting locations or shooting rehersals with their own FX3 camera, and they capture some perfect magic lightning in a bottle moment that they wish to include those few seconds worth into the edit of the main timeline that was shot with VENICE cameras, again this is once again a lot easier thanks to all being kept in the Sony family. 

Or any of zillion other examples. 

If Nikon has all future REDs have a locking Z Mount, and their mirrorless cameras using redcode, and doing everything else they can to make the transition between them as smooth as possible (similar UI where possible, built in looks shared across them, etc) then Nikon can create a huge advantage for themselves. 

[EduPortas]

3 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

I don't see it at all in this way. Nikon tried and tried setting a foot in the video world and just never could even with the best hybrid cameras to date. With the acquisition of RED, they just kicked the door open. I mean they went from nobody, to the company that can boast the last "The Flash, Dr Strange and squid game were shot on their RED cameras". They have gone where no Canon or Panasonic camera has gone before... So, this is why I don't see them getting rid of the RED brand for the foreseeable future.

Even more so that they don't want to lose that very specific Hollywood user base. Their luck is that the latest global shutter 8k vista vision (larger than full frame) sensor camera, will ensure them some time as it will have a following in the action and VFX heavy movie market. 

So my guess we will see the Nikon mirrorless cameras that will cater for the lower end of the market, with the likes of z6iii to Z9 having redcode raw, color science etc, and above that, newer models of Komodo to Vraptor, with Nikon blazing fast autofocus and Ibis, that would make them very competitive against the likes of Sony. As nikon already has not only the tech, but also the volume and infrastructure. What I mean in terms of volume is that the xspeed 7 chip in the Z9 already can do 8k 60 fps raw, with the autofocus, blazing fast viewfinder and IO, in one chip running is a dslr style body!!!! As jarred himself said, it is very very powerful. This could replace the ASIC chip that cost 50 millions for red to produce for just some thousands cameras. The Xspeed will be produced for millions of cameras and is already in the 2000 USD ZF camera. They also have their professional NPS system, that could get service to RED owners around the world. 

So my only question is if Nikon will produce a FX3 style of camera. That is one that is about same price as a z8 camera. Or will they have Nikon mirrorless 700 USD to 5500 USD, and Red Komodo 6000 usd to V-Raptor X 30 000 usd. I don't see the RED brand disappearing for at least decade if ever. It could be the genesis of Toyota. 

 

I think the only thing that's more or less certain is that Nikon will try to move user upstream and pay MORE for the privilege to use de RED Codec.

I don't see them including this tech in their lower-end MILCs. Time to pay up.

 

[EduPortas]

1 hour ago, kye said:

I think that @Danyyyel makes a good point about the reputation and brand recognition of RED, so I suspect they will keep that in tact.

However, a Nikon N-Line is completely possible.  The growth of TikTok etc as video-centric platforms is absolutely true, but I don't think that the cameras that RED currently offer are really where the action is.  If you want to make a line of cameras that are designed for shooting for social media, I'd imagine that this new N-Line would be:

• MILC cameras with serious video features (like the Z9) all the way down to some select "creator" cameras with fixed lenses (like the G7X or Osmo Pocket 3 etc)
• Log // RAW shooting - potentially with REDRAW because why the hell not?

That would mean that Nikon would overhaul their own product lines to have better video (assisted by the techs and technology from RED), a new N-Line with video-centric and ease-of-workflow features, and keep RED as the professional cinema line for working professionals.

Currently the market seems to have two kinds of cameras - hybrids for amateurs and cine cameras for working pros.  The gap is that the market also contains a huge number of "professional content creators" who are working professionals but have completely different needs to the amateurs and also the video professionals, which is why we lament the poor / limited / crippled functionality of the hybrid cameras and also lament the lack of flexibility in the cinema camera product lines.

Red's dead, bro. I highly doubt they will ever release ANY new camera.

Japanese companies don't operate that way.

Maybe not now, but soon enough they will start to slim the American arm until everything is 100% integrated in the new and profitable Nikon N-Line.

[EduPortas]

50 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I'd suggest Nikon needs something a heck of a lot cheaper than the Z9 to capture the TikTok / IG / YT crowd. 

What I'd suggest is a pair of cameras:

Nikon N3 (i.e. a Nikon FX3, and priced as such), put basically a large format Komodo into Nikon's spin on a FX3 body (i.e. it's "mirrorless" but with a better design for filming with, such as more mounting points, TC input, a built cooling fan, etc)

Nikon N30 (i.e. a Nikon FX30, and priced as such), put basically a Komodo (but sticking with S35, rather than going with LF) into Nikon's spin on a FX30 body (i.e. it's "mirrorless" but with a better design for filming with, such as more mounting points, TC input, a built cooling fan, etc)

What there needs to be is a very smooth transition from the low end no budget shooters all the way up to the highest-end productions. 

Sony is dominant partially because they've done this so very perfectly, for example a person could easily do this progression of cameras (either buying or renting them along the way as they progress):

Sony ZV-E10 (or even older cheaper secondhand models such as a Sony NEX5 or whatever) => FX30 => FX6 => FX9 => VENICE 

Canon sort of almost did this themselves, which also contributed to their dominance as well before Sony took the throne, such as back in the day:

Canon T2i => 60D => 5Dmk3 => C100 => C300 , with just the absolute very top end of the market after the C300mk1 was lacking from Canon back then. 

It's actually even worse now for Canon as they have with the RF Mount (example step stones here for a path of progression for a new user):

Canon R100 => R10 => R6 => R5 C => C70 => ....nothing???

To have the RF Mount range of cameras for filmmaking from Canon max out at only the C70 level (which is a lot lower than the C300 was positioned at, relatively speaking back in the day) is a problem for Canon. I assume if a C300mk4 ever comes out, that will have a RF Mount and partially fix this issue? But Canon still lacks any answer for the VENICE (or BURANO). 

Nikon has a massive opportunity to do here something that only Sony has currently, have a perfectly seamless upgrade path from the cheapest entry level camera for your kid, all the way up to the cameras used on the biggest Blockbuster AAA Movie Titles, with no gaps along the way where users might drop out and be lost at. 

It's not just about career progression either, you're also making it easier for a mixed bunch of users to work together. 

I'm shooting a short film on a FX9 and I've got a mate starting out who has a FX3 who wants to come along to shoot a 50/50 mix of promotional BTS footage and B Cam setups for the film itself? Perfect!!

Or we're filming a feature film on a couple of VENICE cameras but we've got a big action day where we want heaps more cameras to get all the coverage we need? (especially if there are crashes/explosions, it might be a one time only opportunity to capture these moments for the films) No problem! We rent out all the available FX9 bodies available locally to be the C / D / E Cams, and we buy half a dozen FX30 bodies (or even Sony RX0 cameras!) to position strategically to be crash cams (if we lose the cameras, no big deal! So long as we can salvage the footage from the SD cards). 

Or maybe a director is scouting locations or shooting rehersals with their own FX3 camera, and they capture some perfect magic lightning in a bottle moment that they wish to include those few seconds worth into the edit of the main timeline that was shot with VENICE cameras, again this is once again a lot easier thanks to all being kept in the Sony family. 

Or any of zillion other examples. 

If Nikon has all future REDs have a locking Z Mount, and their mirrorless cameras using redcode, and doing everything else they can to make the transition between them as smooth as possible (similar UI where possible, built in looks shared across them, etc) then Nikon can create a huge advantage for themselves. 

You said it man, Nikon N3 and N30 are practically a given.

That's would place them in a very attractive position for these new "professional content creators".

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, EduPortas said:

Red's dead, bro. I highly doubt they will ever release ANY new camera.

That’s what I suspect also.

Not that I was ever invested or even interested in RED.

But I do hope we see the tech become part of Nikon hybrid ASAP and they bring out their own cinema line a la FX3 and FX30 mold.

I could go any way right now (as in next year) and that is currently Nikon for stills and Lumix for video, but really want it all with one brand for a variety of reasons.

Fortunately, because E Mount adapts almost natively to Z Mount, Nikon and Sony have the highest level of cross compatibility in the hybrid game right now.

I’m interested in raw but would rather dip my toe than go all in so if the RED raw became available to certain existing bodies by firmware such as the Z9…

Well I am already strongly considering trading 2 ‘lesser’ Nikon Z bodies for a single Z9 and if…if….RED raw came to Z6iii, it would probably be a done deal for me and I’d be all in on Nikon bodies and E Mount glass.

[IronFilm]

6 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Fortunately, because E Mount adapts almost natively to Z Mount, Nikon and Sony have the highest level of cross compatibility in the hybrid game right now.

That only goes in one direction. 

Sony users jumping over into the newly beefed up Nikon ecosystem, who are bringing over their Sony lenses. 

But Nikon shooters can't go over to Sony cameras and use their Nikon Z Mount lenses. 

This one way directional traffic is a good thing for Nikon. 

[kye]

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I'd suggest Nikon needs something a heck of a lot cheaper than the Z9 to capture the TikTok / IG / YT crowd. 

Agreed!

That's why I said "MILC cameras with serious video features (like the Z9) all the way down to some select "creator" cameras with fixed lenses (like the G7X or Osmo Pocket 3 etc)".

😁

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Sony ZV-E10 => FX30 => FX6 => FX9 => VENICE 

Canon T2i => 60D => 5Dmk3 => C100 => C300

Canon R100 => R10 => R6 => R5 C => C70

Your examples make sense, but I'd suggest they don't go far enough into the lowest end, which is why I specifically mentioned fixed-lens models like the G7X and Osmo Pocket.  

I think you might still have too "industry" a view on what is happening out there.  On social media, you can be a "professional" in the sense that you're making serious money, but this doesn't automatically mean you upgrade all your equipment to large/heavy/complicated/manual/technical bricks that have already been assimilated by the Borg.  This is what happens on sets, but most social media happens out in the real world, not on a set.

The cameras I see out there being used most in vlogging land are the iPhone, the G7X, and the recent trend is for retro cameras.  Anything larger than a P&S is referred to as "my big camera".

Check out this vlogger who was so excited to buy a Canon Vixia Mini X... 

 

This isn't even the first time I've seen a vlogger talk about this camera recently, because they went viral because K-Pop artists were using then for vlogging.

Why? It's barely the size of a battery!

Also, you can film yourself with the wide angle while also having the screen pointing towards yourself, and it doesn't look like you're secretly filming other people, the sound is good, etc etc.

All manufacturers except Apple are completely oblivious to the idea that there's a need for physically small cameras that create a professional grade image.  I mean, do you think I'd be shooting with the GX85 and its 8-bit 709 files if there was something that shot LOG in the same form factor??

Be serious!  Half of the reason I learned to colour grade so well was to overcome the weaknesses in the image from the small cameras.

[kye]

5 hours ago, EduPortas said:

Red's dead, bro. I highly doubt they will ever release ANY new camera.

Japanese companies don't operate that way.

Maybe not now, but soon enough they will start to slim the American arm until everything is 100% integrated in the new and profitable Nikon N-Line.

Maybe.

It would be a bit silly though - the brand recognition was part of the value of the company.  BM is having a difficult time breaking into the cinema ecosystem despite having brand recognition for Resolve, so Nikon buying one of the "big three" brands that was being actively used by Hollywood, and then putting it in a drawer seems a bit counter productive.

[Davide DB]

3 hours ago, kye said:

It would be a bit silly though - the brand recognition was part of the value of the company.

 

I absolutely agree.
You buy and close a competitor company but this is not the case with Red.
The whole deal only makes sense if they keep the Red brand which is their gateway to cinema. 

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, kye said:

Your examples make sense, but I'd suggest they don't go far enough into the lowest end, which is why I specifically mentioned fixed-lens models like the G7X and Osmo Pocket.  

Well I guess Sony is already doing that with Sony RX10, RX100 and even the RX0 have slog!!

So yes, it would be good if Nikon does this too, make it very easy to mix and match together the full range of cameras in a professional workflow. 

 

[EduPortas]

8 hours ago, kye said:

Maybe.

It would be a bit silly though - the brand recognition was part of the value of the company.  BM is having a difficult time breaking into the cinema ecosystem despite having brand recognition for Resolve, so Nikon buying one of the "big three" brands that was being actively used by Hollywood, and then putting it in a drawer seems a bit counter productive.

 

Guess only time will tell, friend.

I agree that Red has brand recognition, but only with a very specific subset of the imaging crowd.

Nikon has A LOT more recognition from almost everybody, from the absolure noob to the hard-core pro.

And, let's be honest, Nikon was already hitting home runs with their new lenses and video features with pro-photogs. Now they WILL go full-hog with the video guys. That's the new slice of the imaging pie.

Integrate, fortify the brand (Nikon) and capitalize on a new growing market.

Hence, my original snarky comment about Red's Dead with no sight of Redemption.

[ac6000cw]

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Well I guess Sony is already doing that with Sony RX10, RX100 and even the RX0 have slog!!

Yes (and in the ZV-1 series), but it's only 8-bit S-Log2/S-Log3/HLG, not the 10-bit version available in the newer and higher end cameras.

1 hour ago, EduPortas said:

I agree that Red has brand recognition, but only with a very specific subset of the imaging crowd.

Nikon has A LOT more recognition from almost everybody, from the absolure noob to the hard-core pro.

And, let's be honest, Nikon was already hitting home runs with their new lenses and video features with pro-photogs. Now they WILL go full-hog with the video guys. That's the new slice of the imaging pie.

Integrate, fortify the brand (Nikon) and capitalize on a new growing market.

I think from a branding perspective, Nikon might use the RED name in the way Panasonic uses Leica and Sony uses Zeiss branding to 'elevate' the higher-end products a bit. And of course DJI have apparently owned the majority of Hasselblad for some years (but don't seem to have made much use of the branding potential of it).

[kye]

11 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Well I guess Sony is already doing that with Sony RX10, RX100 and even the RX0 have slog!!

So yes, it would be good if Nikon does this too, make it very easy to mix and match together the full range of cameras in a professional workflow. 

 

Yep.  I think it's a matter of friction across an entire lineup, and if you start with a fixed-lens camera and want to "upgrade" then going to a MILC might seem a huge jump up but if your fixed-lens camera also has LOG then there's an "upgrade" right in front of you.  You switch to it, learn about LUTs and colour grading and having flexibility of the image in post.  Then when you want to upgrade your home setup (where size doesn't matter) the fact that you're already shooting N-LOG would be a factor in keeping you in the Nikon ecosystem.

6 hours ago, EduPortas said:

Guess only time will tell, friend.

I agree that Red has brand recognition, but only with a very specific subset of the imaging crowd.

Nikon has A LOT more recognition from almost everybody, from the absolure noob to the hard-core pro.

And, let's be honest, Nikon was already hitting home runs with their new lenses and video features with pro-photogs. Now they WILL go full-hog with the video guys. That's the new slice of the imaging pie.

Integrate, fortify the brand (Nikon) and capitalize on a new growing market.

Hence, my original snarky comment about Red's Dead with no sight of Redemption.

Yes, we'll see what happens (or doesn't) in time.

I guess my thinking was this:

• RED is a huge amount more than just a patent, therefore
• When they bought it, they were buying something valuable that they didn't have
• RED has a bunch of knowledgeable people, a bunch of IP, and recognition and a track record in Hollywood

If Nikon keep the RED brand active then they could do a "best-of" situation, where the RED engineers and technology gets implemented across Nikons existing product lines, and the RED brand gets the benefit of Nikons extensive support network and R&D and manufacturing capabilities.  This would grow the RED brand in Hollywood and in the cinema camera market, which Nikon has zero market penetration of currently, and would help the Nikon brand in it's more premium products.

If Nikon let the RED brand die, then the Nikon line of products can still get the benefits of the RED tech, but any new Nikon products that target the cinema market will essentially untrusted / untested / unknown and apart from "it's got REDRAW in it" they will be a completely new player in this market.  

One thing I think that might not be well known is that a lot of folks in the "industry" have complete contempt and even hatred of the consumer brands and the entire DSLR revolution.  There's a very famous colourist who openly says that putting video into stills cameras was a mistake and they should take it out (yes, he maintains that the manufacturers should all REMOVE the video functions of all these consumer cameras!).

There's a thing where at the first production meeting of a movie there's a moment when someone asks what they're shooting on, and if the answer is ARRI / Alexa then everyone in the room relaxes.  Yes, this means that if they say RED then people don't relax, but if they say RED then at least someone can say "X, Y, Z were all shot on RED".  If someone said "Nikon" at that moment, the reaction might be "the photo people????".  

When you have industry people actively hating the fact that people are shooting music videos on GH5s, someone like Nikon are likely viewed as being from a parallel universe!

[MrSMW]

On 4/14/2024 at 7:35 AM, IronFilm said:

That only goes in one direction. 

Sony users jumping over into the newly beefed up Nikon ecosystem, who are bringing over their Sony lenses. 

But Nikon shooters can't go over to Sony cameras and use their Nikon Z Mount lenses. 

This one way directional traffic is a good thing for Nikon. 

Indeed. I did not put that very well...

What I meant was that as someone invested in Nikon bodies and adapted Tamron E Mount lenses, I could easily go either way, ie, all in on Sony or Nikon.

At this point in time, ie, 2024, I'm not planning on it however.

My season has already started up and 3 jobs in, my conclusion so far is that I have zero reason (or desire) to switch from L Mount for my video needs as it just works, with my S1H now set up as a static 'camcorder' and my S5ii on run & gun.

The Zf is a beaut and so is the Z6ii with battery grip, both for stills.

The only thing re. the latter set up is I much prefer the ergos of the Z6ii with battery grip, but ideally with the capability of the Zf...

I would also prefer to only have one unit in the stills role and not two.

As soon as the Z6iii appears, I think it's a done deal for me.

The rumors (ha, if you can trust them) are 6k but obviously no mention other than some very recent speculation and hype over RED raw, but I'd take it at launch or firmware update or even never as this for me, at least initially, would be a photo-centric camera.

6k raw has more appeal to me than 8k for sure, just as the smaller/lighter Z6 format (even with grip) for me trumps Z9. But we shall see...

[ac6000cw]

12 hours ago, kye said:

There's a thing where at the first production meeting of a movie there's a moment when someone asks what they're shooting on, and if the answer is ARRI / Alexa then everyone in the room relaxes.

A film-making version of the 'No-one ever got fired for buying IBM' (computers) situation 🙂

12 hours ago, kye said:

One thing I think that might not be well known is that a lot of folks in the "industry" have complete contempt and even hatred of the consumer brands and the entire DSLR revolution.  There's a very famous colourist who openly says that putting video into stills cameras was a mistake and they should take it out (yes, he maintains that the manufacturers should all REMOVE the video functions of all these consumer cameras!).

I do wonder if some of that is driven by fear of jobs disappearing (despite the availability of much lower cost tools - e.g. cameras and editing software - having hugely expanded the overall 'moving image' production market).

[IronFilm]

16 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

Yes (and in the ZV-1 series), but it's only 8-bit S-Log2/S-Log3/HLG, not the 10-bit version available in the newer and higher end cameras.

Yup, and maybe Nikon might only offer the very highest compression rate (and only that one option, no others) of redcode in a future Nikon Z30 mk2?

Thus having it nominally a whole line up from bottom to top end all integrated together, but also keeping their cheapest entry level cameras "simple to use" (only one compression option for redcode) and giving more serious enthusiasts even more of a reason to upgrade to a Z6mk3 or a mythical "Z500" (the mirrorless D500)

 

[kye]

1 hour ago, ac6000cw said:

A film-making version of the 'No-one ever got fired for buying IBM' (computers) situation 🙂

Absolutely.

Of course, ARRI is like the old IBM where you got what you paid for, unlike the modern IBM which is charging for a premium service and just delivering the lowest-cost service they can get away with! 

1 hour ago, ac6000cw said:

I do wonder if some of that is driven by fear of jobs disappearing (despite the availability of much lower cost tools - e.g. cameras and editing software - having hugely expanded the overall 'moving image' production market).

I agree.  I've seen it in many different industries time and time again from the people who are already successful saying that new people shouldn't be allowed in and that equipment should be expensive and hard to get etc.

In the case of the colourist I was referring to, I suspect they got sick of new people coming into the scene wanting to get great images and not wanting to get a job fetching coffee and then spend the next 30 years working their way up through the ranks to get to being a well-regarded colourist.