Best bang for buck lighting

[gethin]

Back in the day I did a few shoots with 5 and 10k hmi's that you could blast through a window and would compete with daylight.  I don't really use lighting much anymore and I'm very out of the loop.  I have a couple of cheap and cheerful godox 150w leds. Is there anything current that has higher output that is $1000 USD and below?  I've seen a few diy things that look absurdly bright but no idea what the output actually is.  They don't need to run for hours on end either.  

 

 

[ade towell]

Take a look at Amaran and Smallrig

[Tim Sewell]

I recently bought one of these (the daylight version) and am soon to get the bi-colour. I don't have the tools to test the metrics, but they're extremely bright and reasonably quiet. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385671087101?itmmeta=01HWMW3M2R3J7XYR6MXF4WNV52&hash=item59cbc9c3fd:g:GeQAAOSw4f5kgv5S&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwFc8zK2w7uAzhpc1h248S6jNA5Gw%2FYnu0N1Oh9zktYieBDQ0XN3Y2S1YLVVfrVCJwMOe%2FWIN8QX%2F1Y6qh%2BuG964LZb8IkftuUcmkq%2Bxo6n1YRp%2BuqoPgcv84%2BMzIWIWVd3SNpq4mnPPPWRlsiCOiPNsl84vGLEZ4S51kzT17vRYoFI5EpvbRtTDEWvTvpSYVdxv4DenaLzgf0W37yPC5B%2FiZ3bP6%2BKW2Dm6iDH7x2H7AFj9ubifexmkIp5%2B%2FQ8Cxxg%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7rBjpzlYw

This is a UK link, but I think they're available in most markets.

[kye]

In my casual YT DOP channel viewing I rarely see anyone with anything larger than a 600W, even for blasting through windows to simulate daylight.  I guess a lot of people have access to cameras that have good ISO performance above base and also shoot with fast lenses too, and aren't trying to light Hollywood-sized sets, so maybe 600W is enough?

Mostly the discussion seems to be about placement and modifiers, not the overall power levels.

But, this is just what I've seen, maybe the algorithm is hiding things from me 🙂 

[Tim Sewell]

I've seen quite a few 1200 and 2400 fixtures in use on various DP YT channels, but really only when the spaces that need to be lit are on the bigger side. And they're pretty big old units, needing heavier duty stands etc and in a lot of cases no longer having Bowens mounts. You're really getting into van territory so I'd expect these bigger LEDs to be much more of a hire item than something you'd carry around in your daily kit as an owner-op.

[gethin]

2 hours ago, Tim Sewell said:

I recently bought one of these (the daylight version) and am soon to get the bi-colour. I don't have the tools to test the metrics, but they're extremely bright and reasonably quiet. 

I just saw these on AliExpress.  The specs sound like they're similar output to my 150s.  Hard to tell though because some specs are given with reflector some without. Seem like good value hey

[gethin]

1 hour ago, kye said:

In my casual YT DOP channel viewing I rarely see anyone with anything larger than a 600W, even for blasting through windows to simulate daylight.  I guess a lot of people have access to cameras that have good ISO performance above base and also shoot with fast lenses too, and aren't trying to light Hollywood-sized sets, so maybe 600W is enough?

Mostly the discussion seems to be about placement and modifiers, not the overall power levels.

But, this is just what I've seen, maybe the algorithm is hiding things from me 🙂 

I'll do a yt search. In theory 600w led would be at a stop or two  higher than I have now, which might be ok.  

[Tim Sewell]

6 minutes ago, gethin said:

The specs sound like they're similar output to my 150s.

With reflectors on it's definitely around 2-3 stops brighter than my Godox SL200.

[MurtlandPhoto]

My big light is the Smallrig 450D. I love it. It's well-built and super bright when I need it. That said, most of the time the brightest lights I need are 300w. 

[PannySVHS]

The 300w leds are great to have, of which I've used only the Aperture fixtures though. The 600D has a big footprint. Rather use a 2.5K HMI instead. But of course the Aperture is much lighter to rig and much less power draw and easily powered by regular circuits. Anyhow, 300w spot leds would be it on the top spots of the list. I also like the 100w amarans. Lightmats and tubes are super neat and easy to use. The amarans come in stronger versions now too. Havent tested them but seem to be great bang for the buck regarding light quality and usuability.

[zerocool22]

8 hours ago, kye said:

In my casual YT DOP channel viewing I rarely see anyone with anything larger than a 600W, even for blasting through windows to simulate daylight.  I guess a lot of people have access to cameras that have good ISO performance above base and also shoot with fast lenses too, and aren't trying to light Hollywood-sized sets, so maybe 600W is enough?

Mostly the discussion seems to be about placement and modifiers, not the overall power levels.

But, this is just what I've seen, maybe the algorithm is hiding things from me 🙂 

Well kinda disagree on this one. For me its about the look I can create with the lights, and during daytime I am allways fighting the sun. And 300w led lights for example dont allow much creative looks. Were playing with iso's you are just lowering or increasing exposure as is and not affecting the look in a dramatic way. Like popping the subject from the background. 

Not sure if you ever do flash photography, but I absolutely love the fact I can completely change the look of an image in bright sun with an flash. But yeah I dont like to deal with huge ass lights either an an one man band.

[eatstoomuchjam]

There's a lot more to the question than just which lights to use.  If you're indoors and feel like you're fighting the sun and if the windows will be mostly out of focus in the background, you can just put ND gel over them - it's fairly cheap and fast.  If they'll be in focus, IMO ND gels look a little bit like shit so that might not be your best option.

If you're outdoors and fighting the sun, especially for close-ups, a collapsible reflector or two (or three if you have one which can give some negative fill) is often a lot better than trying to compete with the sun with your light.  You can get a pretty big reflector for about $30 from almost any photo store in the world.

Otherwise, short of going with really big lights, if you're trying to blast a light through a window and have it compete with the sun, it's going to have to be a pretty big light.  In those cases, I'd probably try to find a way to shoot the scene differently.  😄

These days my main kit consists of 1xAputure 600X, 1xAputure P300C, 1xAmaran 300C, 2xAmaran 150C - as well as the B7C lunchbox, MC4 mini-lunchbox, and a few scattered MX's.  It's more than enough for almost anything that I shoot.  I'll probably continue adding some stuff here and there when Aputure have huge sales (their Black Friday sale is legit - I got a huge discount on the 600X plus a couple of bonus things).  If I need to go bigger than that, I'm more likely to rent it or to just hire a gaffer to roll up with a box truck full of stuff.

For shooting on the go, I just also put together a kit with 3xStellaPro's with their Bowen mount - they're tiny and run off of USB-C so I can plug 'em into a V mount plate or even a battery bank.  Only disadvantage?  Above 30% or so, the fan runs constantly.  I'm excited to actually do a shoot with 'em.  I also picked up a Molus X100 for the cases where I want somebody to hand hold a light.  It's alright, but the reflector in the Bowens mount seems to do some funky things with my softboxes.

 

[kye]

3 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Well kinda disagree on this one. For me its about the look I can create with the lights, and during daytime I am allways fighting the sun. And 300w led lights for example dont allow much creative looks. Were playing with iso's you are just lowering or increasing exposure as is and not affecting the look in a dramatic way. Like popping the subject from the background. 

Not sure if you ever do flash photography, but I absolutely love the fact I can completely change the look of an image in bright sun with an flash. But yeah I dont like to deal with huge ass lights either an an one man band.

If you're fighting the sun then yeah, serious horsepower definitely comes into the equation!

[Tim Sewell]

 

9 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

they're tiny and run off of USB-C so I can plug 'em into a V mount plate or even a battery bank.

I'm doing a b-roll shoot over lunch today for one of the documentaries I'm making this year (first shoot on this one, so looking forward to it!). I haven't been able to scout the room, which is a recording/rehearsal studio, but I do know that it's very small and that the walls are lined with those acoustic tile thingies. So I'm taking:

1 x tiny Ulanzi 40W bi-colour
2 x RGB wands
2 x Lupo 20W bi-colour Smartpanels
1 x Zhiyun M20 bi-colour
1 x FalconEyes RGB panel

Also a bunch of pipe clamps, spring clamps, 1/4 20 magnet plates etc, plus 2 5-in-1 reflectors, one of them folded out to black.

All battery powered. I probably won't use all of these, but I wanted to give myself some adaptability given that I'm going in near-blind.

The look I'll be gunning for is classic split tone so I'll be setting up a daylight wash with the 40W light and using some of the other lights for warm accents. Camera set to 4300K.

All of this fits in a single standard aluminium photographer's case from which I've stripped the foam, which is good because the camera weighs about 40 tonnes!

[kye]

2 hours ago, Tim Sewell said:

I'm doing a b-roll shoot over lunch today for one of the documentaries I'm making this year (first shoot on this one, so looking forward to it!). I haven't been able to scout the room, which is a recording/rehearsal studio, but I do know that it's very small and that the walls are lined with those acoustic tile thingies. So I'm taking:

1 x tiny Ulanzi 40W bi-colour
2 x RGB wands
2 x Lupo 20W bi-colour Smartpanels
1 x Zhiyun M20 bi-colour
1 x FalconEyes RGB panel

Also a bunch of pipe clamps, spring clamps, 1/4 20 magnet plates etc, plus 2 5-in-1 reflectors, one of them folded out to black.

All battery powered. I probably won't use all of these, but I wanted to give myself some adaptability given that I'm going in near-blind.

The look I'll be gunning for is classic split tone so I'll be setting up a daylight wash with the 40W light and using some of the other lights for warm accents. Camera set to 4300K.

All of this fits in a single standard aluminium photographer's case from which I've stripped the foam, which is good because the camera weighs about 40 tonnes!

I really don't envy you pros who have to go into who-knows-what situations and have to deliver professional results!

Do you at least know what colour the acoustic tiles are?  Heaven forbid that you go in there and they're all purple or green or something horrific..

[Tim Sewell]

2 hours ago, kye said:

I really don't envy you pros who have to go into who-knows-what situations and have to deliver professional results!

Well I'm no pro, but I do want to get pro results.

The tiles were, happily, a fairly neutral dark grey, but the room itself was tiny. You literally could not swing a cat in there. I lit it quite easily - 1 x 5800K Lupo into a bounce on the wall opposite the talent, a 3200K Lupo offside and behind, a 3200K tube on the floor at his feet and then the M20 at 6300K behind him lighting the sloping roof at around 40% to give a bit of separation.

It certainly looked nice enough in the monitor! Today's shots (which only took just over an hour - the advantage of the tiny location was that you can only do so many CUs and mids of a guy sitting on a stool playing a guitar and staring at a laptop!)n will be used as B-roll to run as interview cutaways and also to create a monitor LUT for all the other studio work we'll be doing over the next couple of months.

[Tim Sewell]

Sorry to take the thread off-topic, by the way.

[KnightsFan]

Everyone posting here might know this, but just for inexperienced readers' sake, I'll point out that the light output per watt of different light types is very different. An LED is about twice the lumens/watt of an HMI, so a 5k HMI is not equivalent output to a 5k LED.

Strictly in terms of bang for buck, tungsten might be the mot affordable. You can get used tungsten fixtures and replacement lamps for nothing compared to LEDs. Of course you'll be dealing with uncomfortable heat output, dangerous surface temperatures, and insane power draws. For those reasons, I opt for LEDs these days, despite the price.

Right now I use an Amaran 100D and 200D and I'm happy with them for their price. The important thing other than light quality is to use a standard mount (such as Bowen) for shared modifiers.

 

On 4/29/2024 at 7:14 AM, Tim Sewell said:

I've seen quite a few 1200 and 2400 fixtures in use on various DP YT channels, but really only when the spaces that need to be lit are on the bigger side. And they're pretty big old units, needing heavier duty stands etc and in a lot of cases no longer having Bowens mounts. You're really getting into van territory so I'd expect these bigger LEDs to be much more of a hire item than something you'd carry around in your daily kit as an owner-op.

Are you sure they were LED and not HMI? I don't think we've had quality LED lights that powerful for very many years so I'd be curious which old units they were. I could be wrong though.

[QuickHitRecord]

I personally think that these are hard to beat. I own four of them. I came from running two 575w HMIs but these are brighter, quieter, and more affordable. There's no ballast or extra cabling, which for me is a plus. They also have a dedicated remote control available so you don't have to rely on an app. The only "drawback" is that they can't be powered by v-mounts, but I have other lights that can be.

I'm very intrigued by the design of the new Molus G300 because I think I could fit two or maybe even three into a single case. But there are several ways in which the Nanlites still beat them.

[Tim Sewell]

1 hour ago, KnightsFan said:

Are you sure they were LED and not HMI? I don't think we've had quality LED lights that powerful for very many years so I'd be curious which old units they were. I could be wrong though.

The videos I've seen them in have all been from the last year or two - mainly Nanlites with a couple of Aputures and Godox in the mix. Of course, some of those videos have been in the 'gaffer testing stuff' genre made in guys' garages, but others have been, in the main, DPs on higher end shoots and some tutorials (I think quite a few of the notable working DP Tubers have been given freebies, so they reckon, 'why the hell not use it?'.