Lumix S9

[Thpriest]

It’d be good to have some solid rumours about the S1H’s successor. 
6K 50p no crop please!

[BTM_Pix]

12 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

It’d be good to have some solid rumours about the S1H’s successor. 

Funnily enough…

Obviously, I won’t believe it until a breathless man abandons his family in a log cabin to rush out onto the balcony to do an emergency YouTube video about it but likely to be something S1/H/R related I would imagine.

Unless the mad bastards are releasing an MFT camera in a medium format body of course.

[Thpriest]

The breathless man is key. Without his gibberish nothing seems real.

 

[MrSMW]

30 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

The breathless man is key. Without his gibberish nothing seems real.

 

I won't make any future moves until he has 'spoken'.

[BTM_Pix]

Like when they elect a new Pope, he should do this when he has a confirmed rumour.

[MrSMW]

I really think they are not that bright in the Vatican City because how does anyone know the place is not actually on fire?

Something like red or purple smoke would be perfect.

Or rainbow coloured smoke to demo how PC they are these days.

Oh hang on, they don't allow even ladyfolk to join their cult so maybe not...

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Unless the mad bastards are releasing an MFT camera in a medium format body of course.

If so, I propose we call that move "the reverse Fuji," given that the GFX 100 II  (and moreso, the 100s II) is a medium format camera in a somewhat large full frame body (the S II is smaller than a Z8 by about 5% and the 100II is smaller than a Z9 by about 15%, though the latter isn't a totally fair comparison since the Z9 has an integrated vertical grip).

[Al Dolega]

Has anyone confirmed the S9's image processing is the same as the S5II/IIX? Still a bit crunchy and oversharpened? I was hoping for an unnanounced improvement. I guess it seems like if anything it would maybe be worse, though, in a smaller body with worse thermals.

[Ninpo33]

26 minutes ago, Al Dolega said:

Has anyone confirmed the S9's image processing is the same as the S5II/IIX? Still a bit crunchy and oversharpened? I was hoping for an unnanounced improvement. I guess it seems like if anything it would maybe be worse, though, in a smaller body with worse thermals.

I'm also curious about this. Everyone always assumes it's just the same sensor and color science with all the S cameras but sometimes people who own multiple S bodies can see the subtle differences. I found a few S9's for $1,100 this weekend in Japan but am waiting for the $1,000 sweet spot for value to me as back up/pocket 6k/street/ C-Camera to my other L mount stuff. 

[Ninpo33]

9 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Well, having slept on it for another night, I have concluded that I'm sending it back.

Somewhat reluctantly because I do like it and the cost difference aside as in, is it worth €1000 more (with cage) than the S1H? the answer is no.

But look at this sexy little 6k open gate beauty...

For me I am going to have fun with M mount glass and treating it more like a less robust Sigma FP. Maybe one day Lumix will unlock the prores raw once sales start to slide or the new S2 cameras come out. I feel like if Lumix drops the price to $1,200, removes record limits in next firmware and then puts out a sweet f/2 pancake and AF mini zoom, This thing would sell like crazy.    

[MrSMW]

10 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

But look at this sexy little 6k open gate beauty...

It does indeed look pretty cool, but actually being pro wins for me over pure aesthetics! But as a personal camera, yup, looks great!

10 hours ago, Al Dolega said:

Has anyone confirmed the S9's image processing is the same as the S5II/IIX?

Looks identical to me and not heard a peep it’s any different other than the slight differences you can get between the same models, ie, manufacturing ‘tolerances’.

[MrSMW]

18 hours ago, Thpriest said:

It’d be good to have some solid rumours about the S1H’s successor. 
6K 50p no crop please!

I think it's highly unlikely it would be cropped based on the fact that there was and still is so much criticism of 4k 50/60p being cropped. 

It's pretty much the only criticism folks seem to be able to come up re. the entire S line apart from perhaps size/weight in the S1's.

My only real criticism of the S1's is that each body was too different. The S1H from the S1R anyway... That used to really bug me when using that combo as the handling was so different.

I'd also prefer it if they stuck with 6k and didn't go for 8k, but that's maybe just personal preference.

And I quite like that size and weight if not using a grip or cage. My ideal S2H would be 10% smaller and 10% lighter, uncropped 6k 50p open gate and great AF. Job done, just a really solid pro unit.

Which is what has put me off the S9, the lack of 'pro-ness' to it.

Having thought on it even more, I've moved to an identical pair of S5II's as in; same cameras, same battery grips, same lens, same tripod, same audio, same settings. One has a white A written on it, the other a B. The set up for my needs is what I consider 'pro'.

The A7RV with 3 option lenses for stills is just 'pro'.

The S9 within that line up just does not match my definition of pro. Until I went out and shot it, I can't see how I couldn't see that prior, but some things seem so obvious in practice that didn't on paper. Hey ho.

[Ninpo33]

13 hours ago, MrSMW said:

The S9 within that line up just does not match my definition of pro. Until I went out and shot it, I can't see how I couldn't see that prior, but some things seem so obvious in practice that didn't on paper. Hey ho.

Yes I agree completely. For you it would be more like a "D-Camera" emergency back up that lived in the bag and came out for casual stuff and if one of your other three other bodies went down. For me too if I'm really being honest. 

I'm still undecided as well TBH. Prices are creeping down on a lot of great cameras right now. 

Fujifilm X-H2s - $1750 used.

GFX 100s - $2750 used.

Sony A1 - $4,000 used.

ZVE1 - $1,700 new on sale.

So many great options and we are actually quite spoiled with options compared to 5 years ago.

I've been tracking things all month as I gear up to either switch systems (after 14 years with Panasonic) or add additional Lumix bodies. One of the reasons I really follow your posts is because I'm in such a similar spot. I guess many of us who are waiting for a S2h, S2r are felling the same thing. I hesitate to buy any older S bodies at this point because of all the new upgrades of late... Even at these bargain prices and knowing that,

S1h for Video A- Cam

S1r for B-Cam and stills

S5ii for autos and IBIS will do the trick. 

 

 

[MrSMW]

7 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

Yes I agree completely. For you it would be more like a "D-Camera" emergency back up that lived in the bag and came out for casual stuff and if one of your other three other bodies went down. For me too if I'm really being honest. 

Pretty much. Over the years, I have used various bits of kit that most would consider not being 'pro' in a pro situation and to be honest, it's always been with a bit of risk!

By nature, I don't like change and am not really a gambler or even much of a risk taker, but quite conservative...but at the same time, have pushed the envelope a few times when it comes to kit...

Shot an entire season of stills on a single OG Fuji X100.

Shot an entire season of video on a single Sony RX100V.

It fills me with horror to think about that now 😵

But at the same time, I have still had to push trying to find the balance as a one man band shooting 100% stills and 100% video, by trial and error.

Video is now just nailed as in the tools I need for the job.

Between the S9, S5II and S1H, all do the business almost equally in terms of being able to produce the end result.

It came down to which was the least risky.

The S5II is the least risky IMO as it has the equal best AF and moderate (of the 3) weight, but sacrifices rear screen quality and a tiny bit of outright image quality.

The S9 risks the most and by quite a margin, ie, potential for overheating and single card slot and lacks the ability to slot into any other role as well as anything else I have. It's the least 'pro' camera of the 3 and by some margin.

The S1H though is like that old soldier that is not too old too retire, is vastly experienced and can not only keep up with the youngsters on the battlefield, but move past them. It can slot into any role with ease; run & gun, long static duty, stills... It just keeps 'soldiering' on.

7 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

S1h for Video A- Cam

S1r for B-Cam and stills

S5ii for autos and IBIS will do the trick

Nailed, based on the current lineup available from LUMIX.

That combo also on the used market is just nuts.

If I was going to build a budget 3 camera hybrid set up today, I'd go with that.

[Ninpo33]

15 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Nailed, based on the current lineup available from LUMIX.

That combo also on the used market is just nuts.

If I was going to build a budget 3 camera hybrid set up today, I'd go with that.

Yeah, I’m really close to just going with this setup now that things are hovering around $1,000 USD each on the used market. I’m working on a hybrid setup that ticks all the boxes for an upcoming documentary in Tokyo and as much as I want to throw down for a Sony A1 right now, for the price of that single camera I can literally get all 3 lumix bodies and be covered. Older S prices keep dropping so it’s a win win while my analysis paralysis plays out LOL

[Ninpo33]

15 hours ago, MrSMW said:

The S1H though is like that old soldier that is not too old too retire, is vastly experienced and can not only keep up with the youngsters on the battlefield, but move past them. It can slot into any role with ease; run & gun, long static duty, stills... It just keeps 'soldiering' on.

Love the S1h. If only it could have the IBIS of the S5ii... I guess that's what we are all hoping to see in Q4 2024 from Lumix.

The S1R is really the one that I'm the most curious about and have never used. I've used all the other Lumix bodies and they cut well together but after seeing several posts, (Yours and Andrew's mostly) The S1R in 5K has me intrigued. Especially at the price it's currently going for. One of the reasons I love this forum above all others is because Andrew and the people here care about image quality and see through the marketing and hype of brands. I like to tinker and play with cameras and so for me things like the Sigma FP, Lumix GX85, even the S9, all have appeal. But with the S1R I need some high res (40 - 50mp) stills for a book that's being done along with the documentary film and will be run and gun, solo shooting both video and interviews in Tokyo. Space is a premium while traveling and so the stills camera needs to do double duty as a B camera for video interviews. Ideally a 3rd camera that sits on sticks in the back for safety/coverage. 

So finally, a question...

You didn't keep the S1R for stills and went Sony. Is it because of speed? I don't have fast moving wedding day stuff happening and the stills are more for BTS and shooting tabletop type stuff in the studio. More controlled. 

But how do the S1R video specs compare and cut with the other S cameras? I could see it as a sweet 5k Super 35 camera with no crop 4k/60p if it could hold up. Without V-Log I hesitate and I can't spare the space on these trips if it's not going to perform double duty as well as something else. 

[MrSMW]

6 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

You didn't keep the S1R for stills and went Sony

First of all the output for stills. Exceptional. A step up from any of the 24mp files.

Yes, on tiny screens and social media and blah blah blah, no one notices any difference, but YOU do when you edit the things.

Same with my A7RV now. It’s no imaginary or placebo effect and the same I am sure for anyone that tries or has one of the Fuji 100mp medium format cameras. And as for the Hassie X2D…but I’m veering off now.

You tend to lose a teeny bit at high ISO’s, but I batch run all my culled files through DXO PureRaw and happily shoot these larger sensors up to 12800 all the time.

Video.

True, no log but I found the 5k Flat profile was more than good enough for my needs and as someone who appreciates a great but still workable SOOC workflow as much as possible, it did the business.

Am I right in thinking there is a record limit for 5k though? If so, that was one of the reasons I stopped using it for video but probably my favourite SOOC footage ever.

Ergos etc.

Great, but different from the S1H and S5/ii. I tend to prefer identical bodies whenever I can, but it’s not a dealbreaker.

SOLD!

But I sold them for one reason and one reason only, and that is lenses.

For my work, I need ideally a max of one camera for run & gun video on my left hip and one camera for stills on my right.

I have tried all kinds of options including flip out filters and using different focal length primes but identical cameras and shooting them hybrid…and could go back to that, but prefer a dedicated video unit and a dedicated stills unit.

This means zooms.

For stills, I need approx 28-200, but could get away with 150mm.

For run & gun video, 28-105.

Other than the Samyang 35-150mm f1/2.8, no lenses exist in L Mount that get anywhere near to those unless they are either slow or big & heavy.

The Samyang has only just come out in L Mount of course and I stopped using the S1R about 12+ months ago and went over to the S1H using a pair of S5ii’s in the video role.

The options for lenses for stills I had were the Leica 24-90mm f2.8/4 and the Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 paired with an option 70-200mm f4.

The ‘one & done’ Leica was too wide for my tastes, not long enough as a ‘one & done’, I did not care for the variable aperture, but mainly just too big and heavy, especially because for me, it required the use of a battery grip.

That lens plus battery grip meant adding something like 1.6kg to the weight of the body! All day long, zero joy.

The Sigma by comparison requires no battery grip and is 470g. Game over for the Leica/battery grip combo. The 70-200 just lived in a bag dumped in a corner until required.

So could I go back to the S1R today?

From a stills only perspective, if I had to, but I would rather not because the A7RV with my 3x zoom lens combo is just a better option, particularly on the size & weight side of things. For me, at this present time, it’s just an unbeatable combo, but it is a €6500 combo for the body and the 3 lenses I have…but a combo of 1 body + 3 lenses that weighs less than my previous 1 body + 1 lens set up!

So for anyone that does not have my lens requirements, for stills, the S1R is an absolute steal on the used market.

[Ninpo33]

41 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

But I sold them for one reason and one reason only, and that is lenses.

For my work, I need ideally a max of one camera for run & gun video on my left hip and one camera for stills on my right.

Yup, understood. Thanks for the specific details. At the low price of the S1R on the used market I'll probably just get one anyway regardless of my Tokyo trip kit and play around with the 5k video in the flat profile. With the depreciation already built in I won't loose any sleep over it. 

[MrSMW]

Can’t really go wrong with a used one because even after a few months if you decided it was not for you, you could sell it for minimal loss and much less than renting anything for the same period.

Zoom lenses I’d be looking at myself right now would be:

Sigma 16-28mm f2.8

Sigma 28-70mm f2.8

Sigma 28-45mm f1.8

Sigma 24-70mm f2.8 mkII

Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 latest version

Samyang 35-150mm f2/2.8

Lumix 20-60mm f3.5/5.6

Lumix 24-105mm f4

Lumix 70-200mm f4

I personally have a pair of Lumix 20-60’s (because I have 2x identical static set ups), the 70-200 f4 as an option for one of them if needed) and the 28-70 as my run & gun workhorse.

I think that out of them all, the 28-70 is an absolute gem due to the combo of constant f2.8, focal range plus size & weight.

However I will switch to and never want or need another pairing beyond the new 28-45mm f1.8 if a longer sibling arrives around 50-100 also at f1.8 and internal zooming.

I would also trade my 3x stills use Tamron E Mount lenses for this same pairing. Without even needing to give it another thought.

[MrSMW]

And my beloved S1H has gone forever… 😞

in the end, it came down to compromise as it so often does.

The S9 I had already decided, was not for me for my use case. Yes, I could have made it work, but the risk factor was too high and just the thought of having an issue you know you could have avoided as a working pro, ruled it out.

I would have gone back to the S1H in a heartbeat except for one factor and that is I can’t bake in a LUT.

That was a big part of my workflow last year when the S5ii became my video workhorse and my S1H was my primary stills camera, but I forgot until @Andrew Reid mentioned the other day that it lacks this feature. 

I just went back to using this feature on my last job and reminded myself why this was the way forward for me after shooting without it for the first half of this year.

No-brainer then, picking up a 3rd used S5ii body either long term, or to be traded when (if!) a successor to the S1H appears.

The X model has no appeal to me. Not a single feature I need although I like it’s all black look, I am not paying a €500 premium for something I can do with a black sharpie.

A 3rd S5ii does make the most sense anyway as it’s 3 identical pieces of kit, all set up the same and simply using different lens options as required.

So a bit sad the S9 did not work out and even more sad about the S1H, but happy to have a 3rd S5ii because I know that it is actually the best video set up for my needs.

Considered scratching the Sigma FP itch but then came to my senses 😂