Lumix S9

[SRV1981]

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

As always, Gordon has a decent review:

 

Sorry, but if you shrink the body to be “portable” and don’t have small lenses to compliment it - waste of time. F8? It’s laughable. 
 

lack of audio monitoring features even for short clips? Get outta here. 
 

For this style of creation a pair of a pocket 3 and Ricoh GR 3x makes a tone more sense and despite being two devices is more usable and portable. 
 

software is the win here. Other brands need to jump on board with RD into onboarding LUT features for jpg and video. The x100 crowd would eat it up. 
 

if Panasonic had pancake lenses that hit 2.8-4 and an updated audio solution they’d have a killer combo. The image for video is better than Fuji or Sony at this compact level with Lut features.  No need for “velvia” if you’ve got out options. Fully frame and no need for a gimbal? Yea I’d buy one in a heartbeat. 

[John Matthews]

39 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

I wonder if the digital zoom feature will be added to the S5ii/iix in a firmware update at some point?

I would say yes, but it'll take time I'm sure.

39 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

As the S9 has no headphone jack, but does have Bluetooth 5.0, why not add basic Bluetooth headphone support to provide some sort of audio monitoring capability? I know there can be latency issues with Bluetooth audio, but it would be a lot better than nothing at all...

Dream on. Won't happen.

39 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

Personally the lack of a mechanical shutter and the short record times don't bother me, and the variable zoom feature is quite appealing, so I could be tempted when the price drops - I think it's a bit high in comparison with the competition at the moment.

I shoot with the electronic shutter all the time. It really doesn't bother me either. The problem is that if that were the only thing they stripped out, it would be ok. Unfortunately, the list is very long and the price is only $300 less. I plan on getting this camera too as a travel camera (if nothing else comes out for M43), but it won't be for $1500! Also, this camera is only as good as the lenses and panasonic is in desperate need of some very small AF f/2.8 primes (like Canon and Nikon).

12 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

if Panasonic had pancake lenses that hit 2.8-4 and an updated audio solution they’d have a killer combo. The image for video is better than Fuji or Sony at this compact level with Lut features.  No need for “velvia” if you’ve got out options. Fully frame and no need for a gimbal? Yea I’d buy one in a heartbeat. 

Yes, the lenses are the problem. I can live with the audio though. The MF fixed F8 "lens" for $200 (for beginners?) looks so great on the camera, but EVERYONE was wishing for different specs. You're right, it's laughable! Panasonic is going to get hit pretty hard in the teeth over this one. There will be blood. :-)

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Where's that Z6iii? Are there problems with parts?

Yup, that's what I want to know. Fingers crossed it is the camera I hoped the S5ii would be, but isn't quite... Not by much, but 'enough'.

I suspect it might have something to do with the RED acquisition as maybe...just maybe, they have delayed it in order to at least roll out 'something' with it.

I thought April as did many, but it's June next week and still no actual sign.

I've got the tools right now I need, so for me it's more a streamlining want.

1 hour ago, SRV1981 said:

Evz1 got me

Sorry; ZE V1. (I can never remember what order the letters and numbers come in) 

 

1 hour ago, SRV1981 said:

Sorry, but if you shrink the body to be “portable” and don’t have small lenses to compliment it - waste of time. F8? It’s laughable. 

Bit of an issue I agree.

The Sigma 28-70 f2.8 even is a bit much for a so called 'compact' camera and the 18-50 f2.8 is a much better fit, but takes everything down to APSC crop mode. Which is not necessarily a bad thing for the intended market of this camera.

But the f8 lens, come on. Not necessarily the lack of any shallow DOF which is more an 'artistic' thing, but it's a killer for anything remotely low light without cranking up the ISO to stupid levels. Concert/gig photography for instance at f8? Err, no thanks. And also having to potentially fight that e:shutter and banding.

I don't want to hate on the thing and could even make a case as a back up/personal camera...but actually even that would be a very weak case and I just would not.

Not for me but maybe is for some others.

[eatstoomuchjam]

7 hours ago, John Matthews said:

For the form factor and l mount, would you prefer the almost 5 year old Sigma FP or the brand new Panasonic S9? The Sigma is 64g lighter and has a fan, but no IBIS or decent AF.

I'd take the S9 over the fp.  I had an fp and an fp-l for a while.  I used them on some personal stuff and they were a lot of fun with M mount lenses, but in the end, even using the DPL cages for them, by the time you made them even remotely usable, they were much bigger than something like an EOS R5.  Without an external SSD, they're limited to 8-bit codecs - and if I remember right, there's no log profile anyway - just a "flat" one which didn't really seem to add much DR vs neutral.

Anyway, 10-bit v-log on the S9 would be just fine and give some flexibility.

Also, I'm not sure what RS is like on the S9, but it'd be pretty shocking if it were as bad or worse than on the fp.

Also, FWIW, there is no cooling fan on the fp (that I remember), but it does have vents for airflow.  Overheating was never a problem with mine. 

Anyway, I sold my fps because other than "it's a bit smaller," they didn't do anything better than any other camera than I own - and while the smaller argument is valid, it evaporated as soon as I turned them into something that I would actually shoot with.  I still hold out hope that they'll come out with a newer one with 10-bit or 12-bit internally, though.  😄

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

The major problem is that a lot of people thinks that ths is a X100VI contender. It is not. It is a competitor to ZV-E10 / ZV-E1.

A very video-vlogger centric camera, that could also take photos, where the user wants the content to be online ASAP. Never intended for serious stills or video work - hence the absence of more controles or even a grip.

We are all crappy old dudes / cinema-quality crazy people here, the opposite of the targeted group of this camera. There is some style / nostalgia think ocurring with (some) young people, the X100V / VI mania was just a part of it.

Saw a post from a photographer in Tokyo that noted another parts of this trend - he was looking around in streets and subways and saw a lot (and he meant, A LOT) of young people carrying point&shoots. Old Powershots and Cybershots everywhere, and very few taking photos with phones. Hetalked to some of them and they said that is a new stylish trend between them, that they are tired of the same pictures that every phone take, and that the P&S photos have more character. Prices of used P&S CCD cameras are skyrocketing.

And I guess that this was the targeted crowd of the S9. They made a P&Sish full frame camera. With a stylish exterior, few controls, geared towards video - but MUCH more stills capable than a ZV-E10 / ZV-E1 (the latter have only 12mp, remember). And for the "character", there is the LUT ecosystem.

Which, for me, is BRILLIANT. They made what I was telling Fuji to do - embrace custom film simulations, instead of making it hard to work. Using "film recipes" in Fuji is a pain in the ass - you have to assign it to a custom setting position, but if you want to use the shooting parameters of the custom position (like a Portrait setting, with shutter speed, of setting, etc) and want to change the film recipe - no way. 

Yes, there will be some WB balance problems with the LUTs in the S9 - and a lot of confusion when people put a V-Log lut and the ISO don't go down from 640. But the easy of use, and the promise from the newer Lumix Lab app, makes kind of a interesting ecosystem.

They made a new MP4 codec with a 50mb/s bitrate. Looks crap? In a computer, is not bad, but the quality drop is visible. In a smartphone screen? Looks almost the same a pro codec - but since the file is much lighter, you could take a short clip, that the new app is already transferring on the background (yes, the new app could do it), when you end and store the camera the video is already on the app, you could apply the LUT if is already not applied (even with tranparency % of the LUT!) and send the file (which is lighter since the beginning) to social media. Still not perfect, but looks (and some reviewers, as Manny Ortiz said) that is the best camera->app->social media implementation to date.

Will not buy it, but looking how I use my X-S20 nowadays (remembering, I'm an amateur), almost only the EVF and two more buttons would be dealbreakers. 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

3 hours ago, John Matthews said:

I would say yes, but it'll take time I'm sure.

Dream on. Won't happen.

I shoot with the electronic shutter all the time. It really doesn't bother me either. The problem is that if that were the only thing they stripped out, it would be ok. Unfortunately, the list is very long and the price is only $300 less. I plan on getting this camera too as a travel camera (if nothing else comes out for M43), but it won't be for $1500! Also, this camera is only as good as the lenses and panasonic is in desperate need of some very small AF f/2.8 primes (like Canon and Nikon).

Yes, the lenses are the problem. I can live with the audio though. The MF fixed F8 "lens" for $200 (for beginners?) looks so great on the camera, but EVERYONE was wishing for different specs. You're right, it's laughable! Panasonic is going to get hit pretty hard in the teeth over this one. There will be blood. 🙂

Sigma have a set of small Contemporary primes - the 35mm f/2 have almost the same size of a Fuji 23mm f/2...

https://camerasize.com/compact/#825.951,869.596,ha,t

But yeah, the pancake is a joke. If Fuji could do a 27mm f/2.7 APS-C pancake, Panasonic could easily do a 35mm f/4.5 one.

[kye]

 

[IronFilm]

This DoP I just very recently shot a web series with (filmed on a Panasonic S5IIX primarily, sometimes with S5mk2 as a second camera as well) just uploaded a video with his initial impressions of the Panasonic S9:

 

7 hours ago, John Matthews said:

The GM5 will never go out of fashion. I've been watching it on the used market and it's been going up and up. Soon, it'll surpass the brand-new discounted prices of 8 years ago- crazy!!! Why isn't Panasonic listening? Oh wait, they were and they came out with the S9.

I was just looking at their prices a second ago! Absolutely shockingly expensive. 

Seems like a lot of the small mini sized cameras, not just the GM5 (but also the GM1, GX8, GX85, etc etc), from Panasonic are more overpriced than I thought they would be. 

[John Matthews]

2 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

But yeah, the pancake is a joke. If Fuji could do a 27mm f/2.7 APS-C pancake, Panasonic could easily do a 35mm f/4.5 one.

What about the 14mm f/2.5 M43 lens. I want a 28mm f/2.8. Others are doing it; why not Panasonic? Seriously, if they can may a 100mm macro that small, a 28mm should be a breeze.

[John Matthews]

Others are also ragging on this lens:

 

[SRV1981]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

This DoP I just very recently shot a web series with (filmed on a Panasonic S5IIX primarily, sometimes with S5mk2 as a second camera as well) just uploaded a video with his initial impressions of the Panasonic S9:

 

I was just looking at their prices a second ago! Absolutely shockingly expensive. 

Seems like a lot of the small mini sized cameras, not just the GM5 (but also the GM1, GX8, GX85, etc etc), from Panasonic are more overpriced than I thought they would be. 

I've hit saturation after this one - well made video. Still boils down to:

 

1. The software improvements with LUTs are really inspiring and hopeful moving forward

2. The image is top notch and can't complain, absolutely beautiful

3. The body size is overshadowed by the large lenses - might as well just use an S5II

4. If they can figure out a good audio solution and a true pancake 2.8-4 lens i'd consider this as the ultimate EDC/travel combo (until then, i'll stick to my Ricoh and possible a pocket 3)

[John Matthews]

This was a good release (and WAY less expensive than flying YouTubers from all over the world to Kyoto).

 

[PannySVHS]

That's the one I got last summer!😂 @John Matthews  It came with the 12-32 lens, two batteries, a 32GB card, a roughed up original faux-leather case, all for around 240 Eur iirc. It has a hot shoe and came with a flash too, a feature which Panny full frame S9 users have to miss out on.:) I only did a test walk with it so far though. My LX15 going too strong as my carry around camera, even making my GX85 collect dust.

[John Matthews]

4 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

That's the one I got last summer!😂 @John Matthews  It came with the 12-32 lens, two batteries, a 32GB card a roughed up original faux-leather case, all for around 240 iirc. I only did a test walk. It's so delicate I am scared to use it. It has a hot shoe and came with a flash too, a feature which Panny full frame S9 users have to miss out on.:)

We've come so far in 9 years! The S9 is much bigger, no hot shoe, no EVF, no mechanical shutter, less of a time limit in 1080p. It does have WAY better codecs, a full frame sensor, IBIS, and PDAF. The killer is the lack of lenses. The GM5 had so many primes and zooms that were/are a perfect fit. I'm jealous of your red one!

[John Matthews]

Panasonic is offering a few deals in France: S9 + 18mm f/1.8 for 2000 euros. The trouble is all those primes are a little big for it. It's a shame.

[bjohn]

5 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

The major problem is that a lot of people thinks that ths is a X100VI contender. It is not. It is a competitor to ZV-E10 / ZV-E1.

I think for the target audience, the main competition is smartphones. Everyone this camera is aimed at is probably using their phone now to take photos and shoot videos; this camera allows them to post to social media just as quickly but with higher quality. But as cell phones get better, IQ gets better, raw capture improves, lens options improve, etc., bridge cameras like the S9 seem doomed.

[SRV1981]

2 hours ago, bjohn said:

I think for the target audience, the main competition is smartphones. Everyone this camera is aimed at is probably using their phone now to take photos and shoot videos; this camera allows them to post to social media just as quickly but with higher quality. But as cell phones get better, IQ gets better, raw capture improves, lens options improve, etc., bridge cameras like the S9 seem doomed.

And pocket 3 ! I love the portability of my Ricoh gr3x but for video I was liking the pocket 3 but man, the s9 images I’m starting to see are pretty amazing. I’m fixated on the garbage f8 released with it but I’m now curious are there 3rd party options for the s9 that have small footprint lenses that can be thrown alongside the s9 Ina. Fanny pack? 

[eatstoomuchjam]

1 hour ago, SRV1981 said:

I’m fixated on the garbage f8 released with it but I’m now curious are there 3rd party options for the s9 that have small footprint lenses that can be thrown alongside the s9 Ina. Fanny pack? 

M mount adapter + Summicron-M 50mm f/2.  

[SRV1981]

31 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

M mount adapter + Summicron-M 50mm f/2.  

Naive question, but is it AF?

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, John Matthews said:

What about the 14mm f/2.5 M43 lens. I want a 28mm f/2.8. Others are doing it; why not Panasonic? Seriously, if they can may a 100mm macro that small, a 28mm should be a breeze.

For it to be full frame then f2.8 might be tricky ish to keep it super compact. 

But at the very least a 28mm f4 (i.e. roughly doubling the 14mm f2.5 specs) should have been possible!! (or heck, why not at least f5.6??? Why does it have to be f8 for goodness sake??) 

6 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Panasonic is offering a few deals in France: S9 + 18mm f/1.8 for 2000 euros. The trouble is all those primes are a little big for it. It's a shame.

Maybe third-party lenses will have to come to the rescue to say the Panasonic S9 as a true "everyday walk around camera".

Such as this pancake lens for only US$99 (manual focus only), 35mm f5.6:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1628287-REG/7artisans_photoelectric_a006b_l_35mm_f_5_6_lens_for.html

Or the Sigma 17mm f/4, or Sigma 24mm f/3.5 , or Sigma 45mm f/2.8,  all are autofocus lenses:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1757611-REG/sigma_415969_17mm_f_4_dg_dn.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1605137-REG/sigma_24mm_f_3_5_dg_dn.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1492965-REG/sigma_360969_45mm_f_2_8_dg_dn.html

Or adapted M Mount lenses:

Voigtlander 21mm f/4 or Voigtlander 28mm f/2.8 or Voigtlander 35mm f/2.5  or Voigtlander 35mm f/1.4 or Voigtlander 40mm f/1.4 or Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 or Voigtlander 40mm f/2.8:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/483740-REG/Voigtlander_BA211P_Color_Skopar_21mm_f_4_0_P.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1781163-REG/voigtlander_ba379e_28mm_f_2_8_color_skopar_m_type.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/326913-REG/Voigtlander_45BA245C_Color_Skopar_Pan_35mm_f_2_5.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1494427-REG/voigtlander_ba347c_nokton_classic_35mm_f_1_4.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/355977-REG/Voigtlander_45BA246B_Nokton_40mm_f_1_4_M_Mount.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1378116-REG/voigtlander_ba342a_nokton_40mm_f_1_2_aspherical.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1695929-REG/voigtlander_ba324e_heliar_40mm_f_2_8_aspherical.html
 

Or instead of Voigtlander, go with a cheap Chinese brand of lenses, TTArtisan 28mm f/5.6, 7artisans Photoelectric 35mm f/5.6 (same US$99 lens as before, but in a more versatile M Mount instead of L Mount), AstrHori 40mm f/5.6, 7artisans 28mm f/5.6:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1711280-REG/ttartisan_f2856blm_28mm_f_5_6_lens_for.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1628285-REG/7artisans_photoelectric_a006b_35mm_f_5_6_lens_for.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1794221-REG/astrhori_a11b_40mm_f_5_6_lens_for.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1702411-REG/7artisans_photoelectric_a011b_28mm_f_5_6_lens_for.html

  

1 hour ago, SRV1981 said:

Naive question, but is it AF?

Nah, as it is adapted M Mount

(unless there is an adapter which grants AF to manual M Mount lenses?? I've seen such amazing feats accomplished with an E Mount adapter, has anybody done this for L Mount too??)

  

6 hours ago, bjohn said:

I think for the target audience, the main competition is smartphones. Everyone this camera is aimed at is probably using their phone now to take photos and shoot videos; this camera allows them to post to social media just as quickly but with higher quality. But as cell phones get better, IQ gets better, raw capture improves, lens options improve, etc., bridge cameras like the S9 seem doomed.

The Panasonic S9 is however a massive improvement of any smartphone camera, and so long as they make it nearly as very easy to post immediately to social media as it's possible with your own smartphone, then perhaps the S9 still has a niche for the social media addicted content creators. 

  

3 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

And pocket 3 ! I love the portability of my Ricoh gr3x but for video I was liking the pocket 3 but man, the s9 images I’m starting to see are pretty amazing. I’m fixated on the garbage f8 released with it but I’m now curious are there 3rd party options for the s9 that have small footprint lenses that can be thrown alongside the s9 Ina. Fanny pack? 

The integrated gimbal the DJI Osmo Pocket 3 has is hard for anything else to compete against in this market niche. It's better than the IBIS of the S9 for sure! 

But for photographers, then the S9 is going to be more appealing than a DJI Osmo Pocket 3