Gerald just spilled the beans about YT reviews, naming brand and giving examples, etc

[kye]

Gerald just put out an incredible video talking about YT camera reviews, reviewers, manufacturers, and how the whole thing works.

He talked about brands specifically and how they have treated him, including Panasonic punishing him for a YT title, Canon, Fuji, Sony, etc.  The good, the bad, and absolutely the ugly.

He also gave a pretty comprehensive and level-headed-sounding overview of how it works.  If all you want to do is complain about everything (which is most people online sadly) then you can skip the nuanced parts of his video and just get to the gossip about each brand (that's what it is after all...) but the whole thing seems well thought-out.  

 

[John Matthews]

Steve Huff (Hifi Huff on YouTube) had spoken quite a bit about some of the same topics that Gerald Undone is speaking about, but unfortunately the video is now erased from YouTube, which sucks. EOSHD had another thread on this topic.

 

[kye]

30 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Steve Huff (Hifi Huff on YouTube) had spoken quite a bit about some of the same topics that Gerald Undone is speaking about, but unfortunately the video is now erased from YouTube, which sucks. EOSHD had another thread on this topic.

 

Is there an archive of the video somewhere?  Not sure where, but maybe it exists...

[EduPortas]

You better believe Undone will delete that video ASAP.

His "career" as a camera reviewer is gone, yes. But I'm 99% sure he's stepping over some legalities the companies that gave him gear stipulated in the small letter of the contracts.

Save that video before it's gone baby.

[newfoundmass]

This was a confusing watch, honestly. He started out by saying viewers put too much value in the trips, yet he is clearly irked that he has been snubbed by Panasonic and not brought on them. 99% of his viewers will never be flown to an exotic location, put up in a nice hotel, and otherwise have the red carpet rolled out for them. That he tries to act like they aren't a big deal (despite his clearly being irked at being left out) shows how much of a disconnect there is between people like him and the rest of us. 

I don't doubt that he's being honest about Lumix BUT I've pointed out in the past on here how biased Gerald's titles are when it's a Sony camera versus when it's other brands. Examples:

 

As a consumer I don't like it, but if I'm looking at it as the marketing person for these other camera brands and I saw how much of a shill he has become for Sony (and he can argue all he wants that he's the most critical of Sony out of every other company he reviews, it isn't true) I'd probably not bend over backwards for him either. 

His broader message about being disposable to these companies I agree with, but he played the game, helped create the beast, and still, to an extent, continues to be a part of the problem. 

[MrSMW]

I have been steadily unsubscribing from so many YouTube channels in recent months because I have become tired with all the BS.

New camera reviews (which tend to be previews) that are based on an all expenses paid trip, have seen the biggest cull.

Sorry, but I just do not believe for one second that you cannot be anything but biased if you know you are unlikely to be invited on another if you don’t say only, or at least mostly, positive things.

Zero issue with folks chasing free trips, sponsorship or making a living however you wish, but I don’t have to support it and I don’t by clicking the unsubscribe button.

If I’m going to delve into reviews, it’s going to be from folks who bought the thing with their own hard earned and happens months after the launch and after extensive real world testing, ie, almost certainly working pros rather than content creators who by the very nature of their chosen path, need to flit from bush to bush like butterflies.

This does not mean I cannot be interested in the launch of a new product or have hopes and desires for Future Product X, but simply a case of not being sucked into the hype.

[John Matthews]

33 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

This was a confusing watch, honestly. He started out by saying viewers put too much value in the trips, yet he is clearly irked that he has been snubbed by Panasonic and not brought on them. 99% of his viewers will never be flown to an exotic location, put up in a nice hotel, and otherwise have the red carpet rolled out for them. That he tries to act like they aren't a big deal (despite his clearly being irked at being left out) shows how much of a disconnect there is between people like him and the rest of us. 

I don't doubt that he's being honest about Lumix BUT I've pointed out in the past on here how biased Gerald's titles are when it's a Sony camera versus when it's other brands. Examples:

 

As a consumer I don't like it, but if I'm looking at it as the marketing person for these other camera brands and I saw how much of a shill he has become for Sony (and he can argue all he wants that he's the most critical of Sony out of every other company he reviews, it isn't true) I'd probably not bend over backwards for him either. 

His broader message about being disposable to these companies I agree with, but he played the game, helped create the beast, and still, to an extent, continues to be a part of the problem. 

You're right. He always tries to be "the guy" for camera reviews, the one who's going to tell how things really are and "should you get it". I'd probably agree that many of his conclusions are valid, but it cannot be understated he NEVER actually shares ANY footage as a creator. It's almost like he can talk forever about a language, but never really speaks it. As a language teacher myself, I know there are many teachers who are guilty of this (if that makes sense).

[eatstoomuchjam]

I'm no fan of Gerald, as a general rule.  He's not a filmmaker and he has a tendency to harp on and on about fairly unimportant flaws in cameras in his reviews.  One of the reasons that he doesn't share much footage is because he's not out there making footage.

But I do applaud that video and I appreciate the peek behind the curtain of camera reviews.  I hadn't thought before about the angle of trip reviews being biased toward positive partly because of camaraderie, food, and drink (hearing a list of positives and having limited time always seemed logical to me).

As others have pointed out, there are some weird inconsitencies.  He mentions that his early look videos don't do a lot better than his later-released videos...  but then he also makes comments about how if Panasonic doesn't work with him, it could cause him problems.  Why?  I'm sure that his sponsor spots pay well enough for spend $150 renting the camera for a few days and still have enough to support his lifestyle.  That's what most of us schlubs need to do if we want to test a camera before buying it - plunk down some money and rent the damn thing.

Anyway, if nothing else, hopefully having a bigger YouTuber saying it inspires the legions of people who breathlessly click on release videos and get super excited by the hype to start thinking more critically about launch PR videos and remembering that the people who set them up are the marketing team.

[kye]

48 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

You're right. He always tries to be "the guy" for camera reviews, the one who's going to tell how things really are and "should you get it". I'd probably agree that many of his conclusions are valid, but it cannot be understated he NEVER actually shares ANY footage as a creator. It's almost like he can talk forever about a language, but never really speaks it. As a language teacher myself, I know there are many teachers who are guilty of this (if that makes sense).

Actually, I think he's one of the most authentic YT reviewers in that way - he isn't a film-maker and doesn't pretend to be one.  His reviews are technical and he doesn't pretend to know which little technical gotcha will be important to you and what won't be.  This makes sense to me because film-making is different for everyone and tiny little things can be deal-breakers for a few but meaningless to most.

The other authentic YT reviewers are the cinematographers.  They are working pros who can speak to what is important, but also have a YT channel.  This is important to me because cinematographers can have a tendency to know almost nothing about post-production, and/or their knowledge is based on having a workflow that has 27 people in it who all do this for a living.  So when a cinematographer is also on YT it generally means they have experience with doing the whole thing themselves, so are able to speak to the whole end-to-end workflow and any quirks about things, which is what matters to lots of us.

To complete the picture, the worst YT reviewers are the professional YouTubers.  They pretend to be film-makers but only know about YT.  They are mostly self-taught and not technical, so they think they're experts, but they're just pretending.  If we took the fundamentals of image creation and tested them on it, most would fail, and some would get zero.  
Take the Resolution Demo from Yedlin - anyone who has actually watched it would either immediately stop hyping up anything 3K or above, or doesn't care about the fact that the image will, in the end, be put in front of an audience.
They simply review cameras in terms of how good they are at filming yourself making camera reviews, nothing more, because they don't know anything else.
A special mention goes to Chris and Jordan from DPReview fame, who actually made a short film each year with all the processes and techniques of the industry, and yet consistently made statements in reviews that showed they had zero understanding of the fundamentals.

23 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Anyway, if nothing else, hopefully having a bigger YouTuber saying it inspires the legions of people who breathlessly click on release videos and get super excited by the hype to start thinking more critically about launch PR videos and remembering that the people who set them up are the marketing team.

I'm wondering if this will spark a bit of a checkpoint in the community.  First was the announcements about Insta360 asking people to hide sponsorships, and now this from Gerald, on the back of a highly visible PR event.  Everyone says how much influence these "influencers" have, I guess we'll see.  

One thing I thought was fascinating was his idea of the three phases, and the idea that a reviewer can get big enough to start getting the invitations without having special access, so in theory they don't need it to keep growing.  I suspect this video will make the rounds quietly within the YT community, and a lot of people will go "oh yeah...  that makes sense".  It's the kind of thing that once you've heard it you won't forget it.  People will do what they want with that info of course, but I think it might cause a subtle shift.

[kye]

Here's a 2 hour podcast talking about it with Brandon Washington, Gerald, and Dave Altizer (who went on the S9 Japan trip).

Chapters to give you a sense of the subjects covered:

• 5:20 Show Begins 
• 17:30 Gerald Undone's Interview - Launch of S9 is Interesting 
• 22:45How Does Gerald Stay Unbiased w Brands 
• 29:54 How Gerald Decides What NOT to Review 
• 32:50 Gerald's Thoughts on the S9 Launch 
• 47:26 The Reason Behind Gerald's Studio Tours 
• 56:13 Should You Receive Monetary Value for Reviews
• 1:04:22 Should You Review Gear if You're Not Using it on Set? 
• 1:13:45 David Altizer's Interview - Perspective From Japan Trip 
• 1:24:55 Does the Cost of the Product Influence Reviews? 
• 1:30:38 The S9 Was Not the Camera That Was Planned 
• 1:39:24 Michael Tobin on the Blackmagic 6K Now Also $1500

 

[MrSMW]

34 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I hadn't thought before about the angle of trip reviews being biased toward positive partly because of camaraderie, food, and drink (hearing a list of positives and having limited time always seemed logical to me).

Back in the day, I used to attend a lot of workshops and made quite a few friends from within the community as a result.

Very quickly, this is what workshops became about. Not the subject or learning, but a ‘legit’ excuse to spend time with friends who live too far away otherwise to socialize with.

Without question, a lot of the hype of being flown to Japan, accommodated, wined & dined with your chums, is going to have a big impact and make everything seem brighter and shinier than it might otherwise have been.

I’d just feel more than a bit grubby though if I felt compelled to only report the good stuff…but then I don’t have a YT channel, am not a Cuntent Creator, nor ever will be because it just does not interest me.

[IronFilm]

This was a very ugly hit piece against Panasonic by Gerald. 

 

See, I see no problem whatsoever with Panasonic not inviting Gerald (& others) because they believe the Panasonic S9 isn't for him. 

This is no different whatsoever to if camera very specifically targeting street photographers got released, then they won't be inviting people who specialize in the niche of bird photography!! That's silly, as they might just end up complaining about: FPS / weather proofing / crop mode / buffer size / their own weird ergonomic needs / etc 

However those same people could find themselves still being invited to a release of a camera that is for bird photographer (IF they haven't just done any ugly hit piece against the brand! Such as Gerald just did). 

 

2 hours ago, EduPortas said:

You better believe Undone will delete that video ASAP.

Wouldn't surprise me at all 

https://archive.ph/atk0f 

2 hours ago, EduPortas said:

His "career" as a camera reviewer is gone, yes.

Maybe, maybe not. 

Gerald has positioned himself as going a different path, that's he is uniquely the 'honest/direct" reviewer. 

In a way, him putting out a video like this is very "on brand" for him, he's doing what he does ("calling it as it is").  

30 minutes ago, kye said:

Actually, I think he's one of the most authentic YT reviewers in that way

He's definitely branded himself as that. 

 

51 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I'm no fan of Gerald, as a general rule.  He's not a filmmaker and he has a tendency to harp on and on about fairly unimportant flaws in cameras in his reviews.  One of the reasons that he doesn't share much footage is because he's not out there making footage.

Yeah, I mean, I'd still definitely watch any of his videos about a specific camera before I make a big purchase of one. 

And I enjoy watching his videos for entertainment! 

But due to the fact he has zero experience, he does often make unbalanced / incorrect conclusions I reckon, relative to the needs of a professional. Smaller channels such as Cranky Cameraman or Luke Seerveld provides better value to watch. 

Curtis Judd suffers from the same problem, a fantastic person and channel, but I feel his final conclusions / emphasis he arrives upon can miss the mark when it comes to relevance for the Sound Depart. (but then again, I feel we're not his target market at all. He instead serves the needs of videographers / students / indies / hobbyists) 

30 minutes ago, kye said:

To complete the picture, the worst YT reviewers are the professional YouTubers.  They pretend to be film-makers but only know about YT.  They are mostly self-taught and not technical, so they think they're experts, but they're just pretending.  If we took the fundamentals of image creation and tested them on it, most would fail, and some would get zero.  

To be fair, the skills are very different when it comes to being a successful YouTuber and being a successful worker in the film industry 

[MrSMW]

5 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Maybe, maybe not

I’m in the maybe not camp.

If his piece had been about YouTube, then yes, possibly, but it was about Panasonic and a certain culture that exists within YouTube, bit is not YouTube itself.

 

[kye]

So, I've been watching that podcast and got to the part where Dave implies incredibly strongly that the S9 wasn't the camera that was planned to be announced.  

It's at the 1h30m mark of the video, but he's saying it as strongly as he can without breaking an NDA or outing a source (or both).  

My theory is that almost a week ago BM dropped the price of the BMCC 6K by 40% to $1575, and then seemingly Panasonic swaps the camera released during a press event where they had invited a bunch of film-makers to...  

Was Panasonic releasing a high-end video camera and didn't want to compete with the BMCC 6K at the same price point? Did BM get wind what Panasonic was releasing and drop their price to screw up their launch?

I've seen documentaries about corporate espionage and that shit is real - companies spy on each other as much as you'd expect when there are millions of dollars at stake.

[kye]

50 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

He's definitely branded himself as that. 

Sure, but if I brand bananas as bananas, it doesn't make them less of a banana.

I'm talking about structure.  He's a technician who tests cameras.  If a technician tells me the DR is 12.7 stops then I'd be inclined to believe them, but if they tell me its a good camera for shooting sunsets in Belize then I would raise an eyebrow.

[BTM_Pix]

18 minutes ago, kye said:

My theory is that almost a week ago BM dropped the price of the BMCC 6K by 40% to $1575, and then seemingly Panasonic swaps the camera released during a press event where they had invited a bunch of film-makers to...  

They’d already gathered in Osaka, shot with it and left by time BM announced the price cut.

With the amount of leaks coming out of there about the S9, it’s more likely the panic came from BM rather than the other way round.

There was a lot of talk about there being a fixed lens camera (aka Panasonic badged Leica Q3) so it’s possible that may have been something that was held back.

Perhaps Leica didn’t want Panasonic overshadowing their own announcement this week of their new fixed lens camera.

Although them releasing a £1500 version of the few years old Panasonic LX100mk2 kind of overshadowed itself anyway.

My theory is that the leaking about all this stuff comes from the manufacturers of the cages which are always coincidentally announced on the same day as the new cameras so they have the most prior knowledge.

[MrSMW]

17 minutes ago, kye said:

So, I've been watching that podcast and got to the part where Dave implies incredibly strongly that the S9 wasn't the camera that was planned to be announced.

Interesting…

I think at least within our community here, if not the wider one, we have been anticipating for some time, a sequel to the S1 line.

With the launch of the Leica SL3 a few months back, now would have been the time?

But who was asking for this S9?

Possibly there is a demand for this kind of thing, but not in the circles within which I move (which are admittedly very limited under this rock) but it something about this whole launch does seem a bit ‘off’?

Or maybe I have been watching too many conspiracy shows…

[kye]

9 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

They’d already gathered in Osaka, shot with it and left by time BM announced the price cut.

With the amount of leaks coming out of there about the S9, it’s more likely the panic came from BM rather than the other way round.

There was a lot of talk about there being a fixed lens camera (aka Panasonic badged Leica Q3) so it’s possible that may have been something that was held back.

Perhaps Leica didn’t want Panasonic overshadowing their own announcement this week of their new fixed lens camera.

Although them releasing a £1500 version of the few years old Panasonic LX100mk2 kind of overshadowed itself anyway.

My theory is that the leaking about all this stuff comes from the manufacturers of the cages which are always coincidentally announced on the same day as the new cameras so they have the most prior knowledge.

Of course...  duh!  *slaps own forehead* 🙂 

Interesting about the cage manufacturers doing the leaking.  I guess they'd be the ones with the most detailed knowledge of the cameras too - considering that they'd be required to receive accurate dimensions and potentially would also get the size requirements of the lenses too so they'd be able to figure out the lens configuration and sensor size.

5 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

But who was asking for this S9?

I think it's a straight up content creators camera.

Gerald said he thinks that it was Panasonic trying to get some of that Fuji money after the success of the X100 selling out, and that the inclusion of all the more advanced features was simply a case of taking the S5ii package and not paying engineers to disable features when they can just release the new camera with those features and not pay anyone to remove them.

Millennials and GenZ are running around with vintage point-and-shoot cameras and want film presets now, despite their smartphone being technically better in practically every way.  The fact that us crotchety old camera nerds don't know what the hell they want isn't surprising, especially considering I'm pretty sure they don't know what they want either!

Anyone who has ever looked at the fashion industry will know that nothing makes sense, lots of things look completely stupid, yet there is a rabid market for it and you can make squillions of dollars if you can get it right.

[BTM_Pix]

With regard to the objectivity and competence of these “reviewers”, I thought we’d put that to bed on here a few years ago.

Never forget the absolute pile on suffered by @Andrew Reid for raising the blatant shenanigans that Canon were up to and the lengths that we both had to go to in proving it definitively.

Did any of these clowns apologise ?

No, they just made follow up videos about it to generate more clicks !

Oh but jokes about kittens right ?

[John Matthews]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

With regard to the objectivity and competence of these “reviewers”, I thought we’d put that to bed on here a few years ago.

Never forget the absolute pile on suffered by @Andrew Reid for raising the blatant shenanigans that Canon were up to and the lengths that we both had to go to in proving it definitively.

Did any of these clowns apologise ?

No, they just made follow up videos about it to generate more clicks !

Oh but jokes about kittens right ?

I don't think the Panasonic S9 pulls anywhere near the shenanigans that Canon pulled on the R5 "overheating". That was an ultimate low for the cripple hammer. I do hear reports of reviewers saying the S9 can successively restart recording up to 6 times. If that it so, just put the usual 30 minute limit on it and a 2-minute wait to restart.