Gerald just spilled the beans about YT reviews, naming brand and giving examples, etc

[fuzzynormal]

23 hours ago, kye said:

Carrying a cinema camera around with batteries large enough to last that long simply wouldn't have worked.

I'm in agreement!  The irony is that I basically did exactly what you say "wouldn't have worked" 25 years ago. Betacam SX camcorder ops with torn rotator cuffs unite!

My career back then was filming tourism video around the world using big 'ol NTSC camcorders, large ANTON batteries, and a massive tri-pod.

[kye]

1 hour ago, fuzzynormal said:

I'm in agreement!  The irony is that I basically did exactly what you say "wouldn't have worked" 25 years ago. Betacam SX camcorder ops with torn rotator cuffs unite!

My career back then was filming tourism video around the world using big 'ol NTSC camcorders, large ANTON batteries, and a massive tri-pod.

Ouch!

I think there's also a difference in approach of what you shoot.

One on end of the spectrum there's this idea that you have a camera with many limitations and you either create the shots you want or you look for the shots that work.  This is the idea of shooting with only a prime lens.  A lot of people who use cameras that are limited have this mentality.
You either get what you get but you get enough good shots that it's worth it (like a photography walk) or you change what is there to make sure you get the shots you want (directing a scene).

The other end of the spectrum is you shoot what is there.  This means the camera has to capture what is there, like wedding shooters have to get certain shots, ENG crews have to capture whatever is happening, etc.

For me, my priority is capturing what happens, so I want the camera to fit the scene, rather than the other way around.

This aligns very much with the cinema vs video camera priorities, but it's a different way of looking at it.

Either way is fine, but the differences are a big source of why people from the first camp give really dismissive and condescending advice to the people in the second camp, like "just use a phone" or "who cares if your image looks like crap".  

[kye]

Meanwhile, not all reviews are the same.....

 

[Davide DB]

 

From Italy, this video, after the introduction in completely blank. tested on desktop and app

 

 

5 hours ago, kye said:

Meanwhile, not all reviews are the same.....

 

 

[Davide DB]

8 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

 

From Italy, this video, after the introduction in completely blank. tested on desktop and app

 

 

 

 

Edit: I realize it was a joke (sort of). 

So now all these YTs are trying to reposition themselves from the GU video. 
I personally believe that this business model is rotten to the core, and these witty videos are not going to change the substance. I don't think it will change anything. In some time the dust will settle and the circus will resume as usual.
GU only spit in the pot it was eating in because it had long since repositioned itself from pure reviews.

Time will tell

[kye]

I thought it was funny....

If this whole YT thing has managed to remove peoples sense of humour then I think some lightening up needs to be done 🙂

I mean, if you want to be pissed at someone, I'd be starting with billionaires getting rich off slave labour in third-world countries, but you know, you do you!

[Davide DB]

2 hours ago, kye said:

I thought it was funny....

If this whole YT thing has managed to remove peoples sense of humour then I think some lightening up needs to be done 🙂

I mean, if you want to be pissed at someone, I'd be starting with billionaires getting rich off slave labour in third-world countries, but you know, you do you!

 

But no for goodness sake! Don't misunderstand me.

The idea is also cute, since I fell for it.
It's just that watching dozens of videos and hundreds of comments posted after GU's video I see that everyone tries to disguise the problem. then I don't know that youtuber so I couldn't appreciate his ironic streak.

[Andrew Reid]

LOL!

[Andrew Reid]

🙂

[mercer]

On 5/27/2024 at 1:01 PM, Andrew Reid said:

This has replaced the Vimeo tests of old where you had a filmmaker and model, or perhaps a videographer and a duck in the pond.

Thanks, that all makes sense, but man do I miss those Vimeo days... I can tell more from an image of a duck in a pond way more than this sanitized, raised midtones, carbon copy footage that circulates through YouTube.

[kye]

How lenses should be discussed (not really a review at all, at least in the current context)....

It would be amazing if cameras could be talked about like this too.

 

[Dave Maze]

On 5/27/2024 at 11:52 AM, Andrew Reid said:

I remember our time at Photokina, Dave, some of the trips are really fun, really productive. And we've both been invited by various camera companies at times to a launch or two. It's all part of the industry, but where it goes wrong is when they start barring outspoken voices and strong personalities, because to be honest free speech is what it should be all about, not marketing.

The best marketing is always truthful.

If they are going to start telling Gerald what his YouTube titles should be, that crosses a line for me.

I like to poke fun at it, but on the other hand sometimes have to throw my hands up and say I am unhappy with some of our colleagues and the hypocrisy.

If Gerald was truly transparent about why deep down he truly no longer likes Panasonic, it would not have much to do with cameras let me tell you that.

The brand in his eyes is tarnished now, and that is partly the fault of Panasonic Canada or whatever PR company handled him.

But I don't buy the video he put out. It's weird. It isn't fully honest.

In my opinion Panasonic will now be all over it trying to patch things up and bringing him back into the inner circle which is exactly what he wants!

There can't be a situation where the press and journalists are turned into a bunch of crybabies who change their opinions on a whim depending on how their VIP status is going.

I have been let down and insulted by camera companies before, most notably Blackmagic and have had the odd incidence of throwing my own toys out the pram! In some ways a normal reaction because you want the access and your survival depends quite a bit on the attention of the big players in the market.

So at end of the day I don't blame Gerald as much as I blame the world of corporate marketing.

It is the marketing people who are playing an unethical game, slicing and dicing, horse trading and using people like pawns in a broader war.

My experience with Panasonic USA hasn't been the same as his experience. I have been told explicitly that they want our honest feedback and opinions and they have never had any say or sway in the content. The only "fear" certain creators have is not getting invited to the next event, which is all in their mind. If you make a positive or negative video... just simply honest, I don't think that will ruin your chance at "going to the next event". 

IDK. I'm moving on from this. Taking a step away from the industry in general. Already have almost both my feet out the door. 

[PannySVHS]

What field are you turning towards to, Dave? I've always been enjoying your contributions a big deal. I still remember your awesome 1DC stuff and great in depth point of view on that camera!

45 minutes ago, Dave Maze said:

IDK. I'm moving on from this. Taking a step away from the industry in general. Already have almost both my feet out the door. 

 

[ac6000cw]

1 hour ago, Dave Maze said:

My experience with Panasonic USA hasn't been the same as his experience. I have been told explicitly that they want our honest feedback and opinions and they have never had any say or sway in the content.

Chris and Jordan say basically the same thing in the latest PetaPixel podcast (it's a 30 minute discussion from 16:39   )

 

[Davide DB]

On 5/28/2024 at 2:19 AM, eatstoomuchjam said:

That said, if someone didn't insist that I use it, I'd be far more likely to grab my C70 for that kind of shoot (also with 24-70/2.8 and focal reducer).  It's hands-down a better camera to use in a fully uncontrolled environment.  Setup/teardown time would be almost identical.

 

Since the thread is somewhat pleasantly derailed....

I don't know if you have seen the series “Chimp Empire” on Netflix. Great cinematography made in many places of close-ups in the darkness and shadows of the forest but also of very dynamic scenes in which the two chimpanzee families give each other a hard time running through the trees. On YT there are several behind-the-scenes shots in which the video operators are seen running like crazy through the jungle. Situations you have to catch on the fly i.e. the classic “run & gun” applied to a very cinematic documentary.
C300s and C70s are seen. It's been a long time since I've seen a documentary filmed with these machines.
There is this very nice article about the choices the director made about the crew and equipment:

https://www.televisual.com/news/how-we-made-it-james-reed-on-chimp-empire/

 

Quote

 

We used two relatively light weight 4K cameras the Canon C300 and the Canon C70, lightweight tripods, small gimbals and even our longest lens was a Canon CN10 which is a lot smaller and lighter than standard natural history kit.

We had to make a lot of compromises, but it allowed us to capture much more of the drama and created a very innovative visual language for the series. For instance, high quality hand-held camera work allowed us to capture more of the story, but it’s rarely used in traditional Natural history. In doing so it makes the series feel much more contemporary, and closer in style to a drama or premium documentary.

 

 

In another article that I cannot find now, the director related that the most beautiful scenes were shot by the guide alone (a local girl who had taken a filmmaking course) to whom the crew in the off periods had left the C70.

[Andrew Reid]

11 hours ago, mercer said:

Thanks, that all makes sense, but man do I miss those Vimeo days... I can tell more from an image of a duck in a pond way more than this sanitized, raised midtones, carbon copy footage that circulates through YouTube.

Yeah the irony is that these were more useful tests. Yea even ducks

Theres a third component to all of this as well alongside just the shills and camera companies, and that is the audience size of the influencers. People clearly must enjoy it, and therefore the mainstream audiences and followers are all part of problem as well, and until they wake up and unfollow, I don’t see anything changing and the internet will continue to be a sinking ship !

[SRV1981]

https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/panasonic-has-used-stock-photos-shot-on-other-cameras-canon-and-nikon-to-promote-the-new-lumix-s9/
 

😂 this is absolute garbage if true 

[eatstoomuchjam]

1 hour ago, Davide DB said:

Since the thread is somewhat pleasantly derailed....

My specialty.  Apologies to those who hate topic drift.
 

1 hour ago, Davide DB said:

I don't know if you have seen the series “Chimp Empire” on Netflix. Great cinematography made in many places of close-ups in the darkness and shadows of the forest but also of very dynamic scenes in which the two chimpanzee families give each other a hard time running through the trees. On YT there are several behind-the-scenes shots in which the video operators are seen running like crazy through the jungle. Situations you have to catch on the fly i.e. the classic “run & gun” applied to a very cinematic documentary.

I missed it completely, but it sounds like something I'd like a lot!  Thanks for the suggestion!  I'll probably start it today.

1 hour ago, Davide DB said:

C300s and C70s are seen. It's been a long time since I've seen a documentary filmed with these machines.
There is this very nice article about the choices the director made about the crew and equipment:

1 hour ago, Davide DB said:

In another article that I cannot find now, the director related that the most beautiful scenes were shot by the guide alone (a local girl who had taken a filmmaking course) to whom the crew in the off periods had left the C70.

That makes total sense.  It's a super easy camera to use and the majority the ergonomics are really well thought-out.  It just kind of gets the job done without any fuss and gives you a really nice image.  About the only things I'd change would be to add an EVF and some built-in wireless image transmission.  Oh, and if I'm wishing out loud, make it 4.6k to allow some reframing in post with no quality loss when delivering 4k.

Along the same lines as the above, I'm shooting a 48 hour film thing here in late June and the producer got me a first AC.  Since I have no use for an actual AC, I'll just be promoting them to second shooter and handing them the C70.  I just need to make sure it's straightforward to match it to the K-X which I'll be using (should be, the sensors are really similar sizes and Canon and Red both skew a bit magenta).

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Theres a third component to all of this as well alongside just the shills and camera companies, and that is the audience size of the influencers. People clearly must enjoy it, and therefore the mainstream audiences and followers are all part of problem as well, and until they wake up and unfollow, I don’t see anything changing and the internet will continue to be a sinking ship !

It is what it is; instant access to so much information and answers (though not always factually correct) and we have to take the good with the bad.

Or rather filter as much as we can which is easier said than done.

I look on with mostly mild amusement at each of these latest 'the world will now end' and 'this broke the internet' reports that the hysterical masses love so much.

One such Youtube video is entitled as just this and I can't remember whether it was the Gerald thing or the S9, but apparently it has broken the internet.

Not mine, - I'm managing to type this, read other posts and browse as normal.

Maybe another post somewhere 'fixed the internet'...

[Davide DB]

4 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Since I have no use for an actual AC, I'll just be promoting them to second shooter and handing them the C70.  I just need to make sure it's straightforward to match it to the K-X which I'll be using (should be, the sensors are really similar sizes and Canon and Red both skew a bit magenta).

 

Ergonomics apart, how do you compare images from the two cameras? 

My friend was torn between the C70 and the R5C (For underwater and narrative use).  Each ticked off several items on his checklist. The choice was so difficult that in the end he did not take either 🙂

Now both cameras are quite dated (not from specs pov) and a new version is around the corner so better to wait for both new and used.