Fuji XH2 8k internal video

[MrSMW]

Perhaps it's just me but the search function didn't throw up any topic that I could find so starting this one.

The XH2. Not the S, model, but the 40mp 8k capable one.

Anyone have one and been using it in this mode, ie, 8k?

And specifically, in one of the film profiles such as Eterna?

I am back to musing over pulling stills from video at either 6k 30p full frame (which I currently have) with Lumix and potential other options...

Not interested in BM Cameras, - too many compromises for my needs.

Canon has options as does Nikon, but at 8k only.

I came from Fuji X cameras (2011-2020) and the XH1 was one of my favourites of all time for both video and stills, but things have moved on quite a bit since then...

The XH2 intrigues me with specifically 8k 30p Eterna, the profile I used to shoot with the XH1 and then the XT3 as a 'one and done', minimal grading required, wedding video option and 8k would allow me to pull stills.

As above, any experience appreciated!

And nope, not bothered about anything external or rolling shutter, just the quality of the output 🙂

 

[MrSMW]

Also, anyone who has made stills quality frame grabs from any brand 6k or 8k

4k you can keep to yourself. Been there done that and it’s not quite good enough for my purposes 😛

[eatstoomuchjam]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Also, anyone who has made stills quality frame grabs from any brand 6k or 8k

I've certainly done stills grabs from 6k and 8k cameras to put on social media or similar.  I'm not sure what I could possibly tell you about it that you don't already know, though.  If doing it from 10-bit video, it'll be a lot like a jpeg from a decent mirrorless.  If doing it from raw video (as a tiff or similar), in most cases, it will be a bit like a raw from a moderate/decent consumer camera (12-bit).

One big difference is that when shooting still images, I usually just leave the camera in aperture priority all the time and adjust ISO up/down as computed shutter speeds suggest.  In video, I'm much less likely to use an automatic mode and always manually expose (and if I did use an automatic mode, it would be shutter priority).

One thing I haven't done/tried yet is to take out the K-X and use it as a motion-photo camera.  The raw video files seem to be a little more flexible than what I get from most of my mirrorless stuff.  There's no way it's going to compete with my GFX 100 II, but maybe it's enough for just stepping out and goofing around/street stuff.  I have an EF-S 24/2.8 on the way - might give that a try with the EF-RF adapter with internal vari-ND.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

If doing it from 10-bit video, it'll be a lot like a jpeg from a decent mirrorless.  If doing it from raw video (as a tiff or similar), in most cases, it will be a bit like a raw from a moderate/decent consumer camera (12-bit)

This is interesting…

So right now, I only shoot raw stills and log video.

Based on multiple tests, I can always get a quantifiably better image out of the raw file… as I’d expect to!

But having said that, always liked playing with Fujis film profiles (or whatever they call them), especially Classic Chrome.

For video, I moved over to log just as I did from Jpeg to raw for stills though that happened with video last year and Jpeg to raw about 12 years back.

Raw video looks interesting, but the absolutely humungous file sizes and storage does not!

And that might be a sticking point for me as in if the best I am going to get out of 6k or 8k log is something akin to a decent 24mp equivalent camera Jpeg, when I am used to raw quality, might not be enough…and would I really want to go the raw video route?

For the sake of raw video alone, god no.

For the sake of a more streamlined workflow of only shooting video and pulling stills, maybe…

For now, I am going to have to content myself with trying out the 6k 30p mode in my S1H and S5ii and to see if I can ‘get away’ with shooting all footage at 1/250th of a second which is borderline freezing action in say a confetti walk for frame grabs and if the footage for video purposes looks ok at 80% speed ie, very mild slow mo and on a 25p timeline…

If that works out OK…and it’s a big if as I don’t really know, then I can maybe consider whether:

A. It’s good enough or,

B. Almost but 8k would be better or,

C. Only 8k raw is really going to cut it, or,

D. Junk the whole thing and just stick to shooting stills and video at the same time as I already do and have done for the last 14 or so years…

The Fuji XH2 does seem to be the cheapest way into this if it works…and requires 8k.

Canon have 6k raw in the R3 and prices have dropped back again to nearer 4k euros when they could not be had for less than 5k from MPB just a few month back.

It would be a BIG investment though to switch to Canon and roughly double that of Fuji.

Nikon Z8 and Z9 also have 8k raw and I am already in that system for stills and have 3 lenses…

I could buy a used Z8 or Z9 and then return it within 30 days. A bit cheeky but it’s near impossible to rent camera gear in rural France. Or stoopidly expensive…

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

There's no way it's going to compete with my GFX 100 II

And there is my other option…

I wish to reduce the sheer amount of kit I have, use and need and am alternative solution is to trade 2 existing 24mp stills cameras and 3 lenses, for one single high MP stills camera and just two, or even one lens.

The Hassie R2D2 or whatever it’s called is my ‘dream’ but way above my pay grade, the 45mp Nikon’s not much point, the Sony A7RV a good ‘budget’ option used (and I have the lenses) but after the Hassie, I’d most like the GFX 100S. 

The issue with medium format is there are no decent zoom lenses. Yes, there’s the 45-100mm f4 but it’s a bit slow in low light and is big, heavy and extends.

I’m going down a rabbit hole now I know, but keeping my options open as follows:

A. Exploring frame grabs from 6k 30p video.

B. Waiting to see what the Nikon Z6iii turns out to be.

C. Waiting to see what any S2H or S2R might be for either the frame grab approach, or the high MP stills.

D. If none of the above have worked out, maybe just trade my 2 Nikons (using with) adapted E Mount Tamron glass) and just do the Sony A7RV ‘budget’ route, shut up and get on with my life…

[eatstoomuchjam]

I can't speak to the GF 45-100 or the 100-200, but the 32-64 is pretty shockingly good.  I don't know your workflow and how much work you're willing to do in post - but with 100 megapixels, just about every lens is effectively a zoom lens.  The GFX is about the fastest medium format I've ever seen (not counting things like the Koni-Omega Rapid series), but any Nikon or Fuji APS-C camera is going to be a whole lot faster, and the A7RV that you mentioned will still be faster.

Similarly, depending on the amount of post production you're wiling to do, you could capture in raw, extract your stills, and then re-encode it to h265/prores/whatever.  Seems like a big hassle to me, though.

 

 

[kye]

In terms of the quality of the frame grabs, it will be down to the codec with more bitrate being better.

I don't know if h264 or h265 or Prores would be better, but it would likely come down to the way that they render the very flat areas of the frame.  All the codecs will prioritise the sharp and contrasty areas of the frame at the cost of the flatter areas, which potentially have huge macro-blocking issues.

From this perspective, uncompressed or lightly-compressed RAW video would be highly preferable.  Depending on what standards you have for your use-case, you might want uncompressed RAW only.

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

the 32-64 is pretty shockingly good

There is really only one lens that I would call a ‘super zoom’ and that is the Tamron 35-150. 

In my ideal scenario, I would glue on one lens and be done.

Canon come close with their 24-105mm f2.8 and the R3 is for me, the best lens platform other than in one area and that is mp.

I need to shoot up to 150-200mm with my ‘one and done’ lens and cropping 24mp is a bit too much of a stretch.

Now if the R3 had even 45mp or better still 60mp, we would not be having this convo as with that f2.8 24-105 it would be that and a 35-150+ at the press of an assigned crop button.

But it doesn’t and any new R1 might, but it will be stupid money for sure.

Keep a 70-200 for those times I need something longer?

Nope. The times I need something longer are when I also need something wide.

The bottom line is I am not so much camera bound but focal length bound and governed by approx 35-150 in a single lens.

So Sony or Nikon is the reality.

Either/both need a battery grip and the Sony is the smaller and lighter option with the Tamron 35-150 and the Z9 the most ergonomic and balanced, but heaviest and the Z8 with a battery grip does not get a look on because it’s bigger still with the battery grip and why would you on that case when the Z9 exists?

Summary = Z9 or A7RV with Tamron 35-150mm are currently the best options.

Nikon Z6iii and any S2R might change that equation and in the case of the Nikon, will require a battery grip.

The Lumix question though always comes back to lenses and requires the pairing of a 24-70 and a 70-200 to get in the ball park but with that MASSIVE compromise of 2x bulky lenses and lens swaps I can’t do.

Unless Samyang pop out their 35-150 and then we have a chance.

Which brings me back to MF and the GFX series.

Cropping in camera or post is my other solution to having a ‘one and done’ lens but that shorter zoom is too short and the 45-100 even, in FF equivalent, a bit short and requires a significant crop to get up to around 150mm.

And so whilst I could just about swing that, GFX 100S + 45-100, does it make more sense than the Z9 or gripped A7RV with 35-150?

I would like to get on with things but at the same time am not in any particular rush as my current set up does work, it’s just not (still) ideal.

1 hour ago, kye said:

In terms of the quality of the frame grabs, it will be down to the codec with more bitrate being better.

Quite possibly/probably Kye and this is where the issue lies in that this is a pretty obscure topic and surprisingly so.

Around 12+ years ago, I attended a 3 day international photo event in the US where the big topic was ‘fusion’.

Today we call it hybrid capture.

I think as already dabbling and I thought it would explode and become the norm and yet it has not.

With the cameras it has, massively so, but out in the real world beyond the chat, very few are really actually doing full hybrid capture, especially as one man bands.

Over a decade and the industry is still pretty much photo or video, with an extremely small number of equal amount hybrid shooters.

I am not complaining as it means my pool of competitors is tiny to non-existent but I still find that baffling almost every day.

My main point being to quoting you though that because it’s still barely out of it’s infancy, there is so little info, limited testing, no ‘handbook’ so a lot of trial and error needed.

In my ideal world, I’d have a well stocked camera shop on my doorstep that allowed loaners or at least rentals and I could play.

The reality is I have to rely mostly on on-line research, instinct, best guesses, testing what I have, gradual evolution etc…

By the time I have it properly cracked, I’m going to be out of the game 🤪

[ac6000cw]

4 hours ago, kye said:

In terms of the quality of the frame grabs, it will be down to the codec with more bitrate being better.

I don't know if h264 or h265 or Prores would be better, but it would likely come down to the way that they render the very flat areas of the frame.  All the codecs will prioritise the sharp and contrasty areas of the frame at the cost of the flatter areas, which potentially have huge macro-blocking issues.

From this perspective, uncompressed or lightly-compressed RAW video would be highly preferable.  Depending on what standards you have for your use-case, you might want uncompressed RAW only.

I think if camera makers were to take simultaneous capture seriously, then maybe they could record a 4k/6k/8k video stream at a normal video frame rate to one card slot, plus simultaneously a stream of reduced rate stills - e.g. 1/2 or 1/4 of video fps - at full (or near full) sensor resolution as compressed raw or high quality JPEG/HEIC images to the other card slot. That might get close to the best of both worlds.

We've already got cameras like the S5ii that can record a 4k video stream plus simultaneously a reduced resolution 'proxy' video stream, so it I suspect some cameras already have enough processing power to do something like that.

[eatstoomuchjam]

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

the pairing of a 24-70 and a 70-200 to get in the ball park but with that MASSIVE compromise of 2x bulky lenses and lens swaps I can’t do.

This is exactly why a lot of people doing events/weddings/etc just use 2 bodies, one with a wide angle zoom and the other with a tele-zoom.

Do you need the lens to be fast?  If not, if I remember right, Fuji have an 18-120/4 and an 18-135/3.5-5.6 for XF mount.  I'm assuming that the former is the "professional" version since it has a fixed aperture.  You're not going to get ultra-shallow DOF with F/4 on APS-C, but you'd have something that's close to a 27-180 on FF.  

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

In my ideal world, I’d have a well stocked camera shop on my doorstep that allowed loaners or at least rentals and I could play.

In the US, at least, one can rent cameras and lenses by mail order through a company like lensrentals.com.  Their rates are, generally speaking, a lot better than my local rental houses - though you are at the mercy of shipping times so one needs to plan ahead a little bit.  Is there anybody like that in France/Europe?  Could mitigate the need for a local well-stocked shop.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

This is exactly why a lot of people doing events/weddings/etc just use 2 bodies, one with a wide angle zoom and the other with a tele-zoom.

Yep, how I started out 24 years ago.

If I only shot video or stills, it’s probably how I’d still go today. Or maybe a pair of wider primes such as a 24 + 50 indoor and a 35 + 90 outdoors, with a 70-200 in the bag for anything else such as ceremonies & speeches.

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Do you need the lens to be fast?

Yep. I can get away with an f4 outdoors and decent light but beyond that…

F2.8 in FF is my slowest I will own and use.

Even f2.8 is pushing it in my lower light environments.

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

.  Is there anybody like that in France/Europe?

Compared to the US or UK, France is a second world country when it comes to anything like this. Or delivery. Or customer service. Or…many things 😏

 

3 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

I think if camera makers were to take simultaneous capture seriously

I would settle for an internal ND.

Using VND’s is a pain in the ass if switching between stills and video rapidly with the same unit.

I do have some screw in flip up, flip down filter holders however and they do work, but I went back to dedicated units for stills and video.

I might look at that again though…

Otherwise, I have 4 weddings next month and I’m going to shoot all 4 at 6k 30p instead of my usual mix of 4k 25 and 50p and then pull frame grabs from each and do a direct comparison with my stills shot at the same time.

The only real way to find out if I can make this work with 6k, or if I need 8k, or I just stick to video and stills.

[eatstoomuchjam]

Please let us know how it goes for you!

[MrSMW]

12 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Please let us know how it goes for you!

Well I'll know by around the end of July because with my workload, travel and production time etc, that's going to be about the soonest I'll find out how successful or not this project is.

I am hoping the 6k 30p will be 'enough' and if so, will ditch my 2x stills cameras and 3x lenses in favour of another Lumix plus an appropriate lens.

I'll still shoot stills, but limit that to; details, landscapes/architecture and family groups, none of which I currently shoot with video other than some drone stuff. 

If it's 'borderline' and 'needs' 8k, then I think I'll need to get hold of an XH2 and give that a whirl.

If that in turn is not going to work, then I will most like trade my 2x stills + 1 lens for a single stills camera because I feel I have one too many cameras to juggle right now as in I can manage 4, but 3 would be my preferred max.

And I can't see less than 3 because for ceremonies, I like to shoot 2x static angles and roam with my third video unit plus shoot stills.

As I said above, limited info out there, no handbook and a lot of hands on trial & error required because it's more than about just on paper specs and opinions, but getting your hands dirty. Without cocking up a job you are being paid to do.

[Ninpo33]

On 5/29/2024 at 6:45 AM, MrSMW said:

Also, anyone who has made stills quality frame grabs from any brand 6k or 8k

4k you can keep to yourself. Been there done that and it’s not quite good enough for my purposes 😛

I just had some GH5 5k video (open gate) stills published in a couple books. Was shocked they printed up so well. Everyone was happy with the images but I was super nervous. Amazing what the general public is OK with while us nerds get in fights online over camera functions LOL.

[Ninpo33]

15 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Around 12+ years ago, I attended a 3 day international photo event in the US where the big topic was ‘fusion’.

Today we call it hybrid capture.

I think as already dabbling and I thought it would explode and become the norm and yet it has not.

With the cameras it has, massively so, but out in the real world beyond the chat, very few are really actually doing full hybrid capture, especially as one man bands.

Over a decade and the industry is still pretty much photo or video, with an extremely small number of equal amount hybrid shooters.

As someone who frequently covers events and a "one man band" travel doc shooter, I have also been watching this space closely the last 10 years. Oftentimes it's just the mental shift for me because stills and video are just different enough to need a slight mental adjustment to plan/prepare for action stuff. I've gotten better with time but my safety net has been to add redundancy and more bodies. Or to just commit to high resolution video and pray some of the stills will work out. (Not ideal)

In Tokyo a couple of years back  I was shooting some martial arts action and really needed to get some stills but was also unsure of how much time/access I would be given in this very private dojo. I was shooting open gate 5k on two GH5 bodies, (One Static and one Handheld with Sigma 18-35mm f1.8. I also had a little GX85 with wide angle speed boosted Contax mounted overhead at 4k. The mental load of running the 3 cameras for the video shoot was enough that switching modes to cover stills just felt too much to add. Luckily the client was ok pulling 5k stills for social and even printed some of the action shots. 

With a lot of travel, (Nepal,Japan, India) the M43 system and GH5/s was amazing for size, weight and cost. But jumping back into FF has definelty made things more of a challenge in all of those areas and I am also thinking now about just two GFX bodies now. Maybe a GFX 100 ii and an X-H2s. Or just get 4 various Lumix S bodies in 2024 for pennies and dedicate an S1R for stills and make sure I use it. 

[MrSMW]

7 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

But jumping back into FF has definelty made things more of a challenge

As the saying goes, there are many ways to skin a cat and whilst not an infinite number, no ‘right’ way when it comes to the tools.

It can be done with any combo of bodies and lenses including 4/3, APSC, FF, MF, stills plus video, stills from video, FHD, 4k, 6k, 8k, primes, zooms, cine lenses, freehand, tripods, monopods, gimbals, with filters, without filters…and I know this because other than MF and 8k, I’ve tried it over the 13.5 years since I began this journey!

7 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

Maybe a GFX 100 ii and an X-H2s

Fuji is one of my strongest candidates for 2025, but XH2 only. It’s not top at this present time but has been under consideration several times.

For my specific needs, I need as a minimum (and ideally a maximum) 3 bodies and 3 lenses.

For ceremonies and speeches, I need 2x static units. A pair of XH2’s shooting 8k for video and frame grab stills would cover that with a 3rd unit roaming.

The rest of the day, ie ‘everything else’, one unit stills shooting just 8k video clips and another, landscape, details and family groups as stills because those 3 areas I think will still be better served as actual stills.

There are also lenses with focal lengths that meet my needs and everything is relatively compact, light (enough) and not too expensive, especially as all of it can be purchased used.

Actually, I’ve just talked it up a notch to myself, but we’ll see how the 6k approach with the kit I have goes first because I’d rather not change anything physical unless I absolutely have to!

[MrSMW]

I should add though that any likely Nikon Z6iii will almost certainly trump the XH2 for my needs on 2 levels.

1 is it will almost certainly be more sophisticated in every department and

2 I am already 50% in the Nikon body system, or should I say the adapted Tamron E Mount system and I do already own my own personal ‘holy trinity’ of zoom lenses, those being the f2.8: 20-40, 28-75 and 70-180 which are probably the ‘best’ set of zooms all factors considered, but mainly based on highest quality performance from the lightest and most compact size.

Latest rumour, but strong one, is Z6iii announcement in around 2 weeks…