kye Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 John Matthews, mercer, SRV1981 and 1 other 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRV1981 Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlfan Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 1 hour ago, kye said: very very close. except extreme situation, Alexa lf seems overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 I'm going the other way... based on that video alone, the GH7 with LogC is good and obviously can match, but the LF image with just a LUT is so good. I appreciated that he let the footage speak for itself and it did... nothing beats an Alexa. That said, the GH7 costs 2 grand... so it gets a lot of points for that alone. And with that said, even though the Alexa only needed a LUT to look good, it also looked pretty vanilla, so I'd love to see what a good colorist could do with both versions to create a stylized look. SRV1981, kye and zlfan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 I'm also not a huge fan of this new airy Midtone look that everybody seems to be doing. It looks like some kind of Bravo reality show about LA real estate. IronFilm, kye, Ninpo33 and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlfan Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 I guess he used iPhone to do the vlog. actually, iPhone vlog footage is not far behind the big two. the lens is not good on iPhone, distortion is eye catching, not friendly to the lady. it is amazing how things get so close. 20 years ago, a phone, a crop sensor, a top brand of cinema camera, they just did not get along at all. SRV1981 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlfan Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 m43 or 43 is actually similar to the original 35 format, so it is not big deal to be against using m43/43 due to this format issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 Yeah but he was using the LF which is full frame, and they were matching FOV, so Alexa had a 40mm lens which is closer to the human eye and the GH7 had a 21mm which is a wide angle that will round out your subject. The LF has the clear advantage there. Even a wide angle on full frame will have more spatial quality than an equivalent wide angle on m4/3. kye, zlfan and Ninpo33 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted June 12 Super Members Share Posted June 12 I think a big bonus for this for GH7 owners will be being able to use Arri's free online Look Library tool to preview and download pre-made authorised LUTs to get fast and painless results in camera. A bit of a downer for the LUT peddling bros though. https://www.arri.com/en/learn-help/learn-help-camera-system/image-science/look-files#/ict/looks/view/sw/ref/3/a/0/b/4/fav/r55i sanveer, IronFilm and mercer 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 26 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said: I think a big bonus for this for GH7 owners will be being able to use Arri's free online Look Library tool to preview and download pre-made authorised LUTs to get fast and painless results in camera. A bit of a downer for the LUT peddling bros though. https://www.arri.com/en/learn-help/learn-help-camera-system/image-science/look-files#/ict/looks/view/sw/ref/3/a/0/b/4/fav/r55i I think the LUT bros are going to lose market share to the Film Look Creator when Resolve 19 comes out of beta, but realistically there will probably be so much market growth with new video creators that their sales might still rise in absolute terms. I'm wondering how much more we'll hear about the GH7 LogC. It's early so people are still finding out and maybe there will be all this information and body of knowledge that gradually makes it into the non-industry / YT / online space, but I also wonder if "GH7 LogC doesn't match Alexa" will be the last we hear from it and it just disappears. ARRI have been talking about the "workflow" benefits, and the ARRI guy said that it allows people to put LogC footage into the NLE and then grade in the log space and then convert to 709 at the end, instead of starting with 709 footage and grading that. When I heard that I was just like "huh?" because people buying flagship cameras haven't done that in a decade, and even colourists are gradually moving from grading in LogC to ACES or Davinci Intermediate. Maybe I'm missing something incredible, but if so, no-one has said anything yet, and I subscribe to the right kinds of places to hear it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPNS Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 9 hours ago, kye said: i guess its a nicer starting point than the v log conversion. 6 hours ago, mercer said: Yeah but he was using the LF which is full frame, and they were matching FOV, so Alexa had a 40mm lens which is closer to the human eye and the GH7 had a 21mm which is a wide angle that will round out your subject. The LF has the clear advantage there. Even a wide angle on full frame will have more spatial quality than an equivalent wide angle on m4/3 Pure nonsense. human eyes are not closer to 40mm on FF than 21 on MFT. FF only makes it easier to get shallower DOF. Focal lengths dont “round out” your subjects, lens design does. FOV is created between relationship of the focal length and the film back size. Dof by the size of the aperture. If the colors of the cameras, as well as the dof and fov, were matched, you wouldn’t see a difference. Read the yedlin articles again. IronFilm, Ninpo33 and ita149 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted June 12 Super Members Share Posted June 12 Reservations opened this morning at MapCamera in Tokyo. Even with the tax included price, it equates to around £1375.00 as opposed to £1999.00. That feels a lot more "right" to me for an MFT camera. Incidentally, importing this into the UK will be the tax free price (£1240) , plus import duty (actually zero for commodity code 8525890000 digital cameras), plus 20% VAT so a total of just under £1500.00 so its a significant saving. Although UPS/DHL/ParcelForce will probably slap on a £500 "handling fee". kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ita149 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 25 minutes ago, PPNS said: i guess its a nicer starting point than the v log conversion. Pure nonsense. human eyes are not closer to 40mm on FF than 21 on MFT. FF only makes it easier to get shallower DOF. Focal lengths dont “round out” your subjects, lens design does. FOV is created between relationship of the focal length and the film back size. Dof by the size of the aperture. If the colors of the cameras, as well as the dof and fov, were matched, you wouldn’t see a difference. Read the yedlin articles again. Using both FF and M43 I can't agree more. I can add the other big thing making a difference is how the camera is processing details when shooting internal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted June 12 Super Members Share Posted June 12 1 hour ago, kye said: I'm wondering how much more we'll hear about the GH7 LogC. It's early so people are still finding out and maybe there will be all this information and body of knowledge that gradually makes it into the non-industry / YT / online space, but I also wonder if "GH7 LogC doesn't match Alexa" will be the last we hear from it and it just disappears. I think you might be surprised. Shooting baked in and not noodling around in Resolve has a great appeal to many people who have either tired of the noodling or are entirely put off by the noodling. And its not particularly about a skill deficit either. A lot of stuff I've seen people doing in Resolve has gone from node trees to node forests and I think a lot of people will appreciate and be more productive with a more straightforward approach. So, its not necessarily about the profile per se in terms of how it shapes up vs V-LOG, its about it being the authentic starting point for those ARRI looks and having the choice to just load one up and get on with it. Yes, this is entirely possible with Panasonic's own V-LOG luts so there is nothing new here except the question of do these ARRI looks look better if I want to shoot baked in ? The jury will be out on that for a few months. 1 hour ago, kye said: ARRI have been talking about the "workflow" benefits, and the ARRI guy said that it allows people to put LogC footage into the NLE and then grade in the log space and then convert to 709 at the end, instead of starting with 709 footage and grading that. When I heard that I was just like "huh?" because people buying flagship cameras haven't done that in a decade, and even colourists are gradually moving from grading in LogC to ACES or Davinci Intermediate. I'm guessing that in terms of ARRI's thinking that their working knowledge of GH cameras could be based on previous iterations of everyone using Cinelike D and then moving onto vlog-l and not enjoying the experience of it being 8 bit and not having monitoring LUTs and then drifting back to Cinelike D or tweaked profiles etc. Their expectation of what people will be doing with "flagship" cameras likely doesn't take into account that people with non "flagship" cameras are now aping those practices. The landscape has changed with the GH5 onwards and then even further with the takeup of Resolve in recent years but when the camera costs less than even their most basic manual follow focus unit then I don't expect they've been keeping more than a weather eye out on that area of the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 1 hour ago, PPNS said: i guess its a nicer starting point than the v log conversion. Pure nonsense. human eyes are not closer to 40mm on FF than 21 on MFT. FF only makes it easier to get shallower DOF. Focal lengths dont “round out” your subjects, lens design does. FOV is created between relationship of the focal length and the film back size. Dof by the size of the aperture. If the colors of the cameras, as well as the dof and fov, were matched, you wouldn’t see a difference. Read the yedlin articles again. Haha, okay. Take a close up with a wide angle lens and then one with a standard lens and report back what happens. There is more field curvature in a wide angle lens due to the ... lens design of a wide angle lens. This field curvature will round out your subject. Just because the FOV changes, the focal length doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 3 hours ago, PPNS said: i guess its a nicer starting point than the v log conversion. It might be. The only way would be to get your hands on the files yourself, or to have a professional colourist weigh in (which I have suggested....:) ) 2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said: I think you might be surprised. Shooting baked in and not noodling around in Resolve has a great appeal to many people who have either tired of the noodling or are entirely put off by the noodling. And its not particularly about a skill deficit either. A lot of stuff I've seen people doing in Resolve has gone from node trees to node forests and I think a lot of people will appreciate and be more productive with a more straightforward approach. So, its not necessarily about the profile per se in terms of how it shapes up vs V-LOG, its about it being the authentic starting point for those ARRI looks and having the choice to just load one up and get on with it. Yes, this is entirely possible with Panasonic's own V-LOG luts so there is nothing new here except the question of do these ARRI looks look better if I want to shoot baked in ? The jury will be out on that for a few months. I don't know, you might be right, but half of what you say makes little to no logical sense. But, people don't make sense, so that's hardly a good predictor. The number of nodes in a node graph is a bit of a red herring really: Pros often only have half a dozen nodes to start off with Huge node trees aren't more complex than simple ones, they just do one operation per node, if you tweak each dial in LightRoom then you're making 15-20 adjustments, so it's not like the pros make more adjustments necessarily Spending $200 extra to have LogC, and still needing to do significant colour grading to the image (which is needed for Alexas and V-Log cameras alike), but not wanting to have a node with a CST in it makes very little sense... like saying no to climbing Everest because you can't be bothered putting your socks on I really only see two situations where it would make sense. The first is where you like the GH7 LogC + ARRI LUT look a lot better as a starting point for the grade than you like the GH7 VLog + CST + ARRI LUT. The second is where you want to match it to an Alexa and the LogC gets you closer as a starting position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted June 12 Super Members Share Posted June 12 13 minutes ago, kye said: I don't know, you might be right, but half of what you say makes little to no logical sense. As much as that ? What an honour. kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 So, I assumed that the GH7 had ProRes and ProRes HQ, since the GH6 has it, but when I look at the specs, I am only seeing ProRes Raw? Did Panasonic dump regular ProRes in the GH7? Please tell me they didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlfan Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 2 minutes ago, mercer said: So, I assumed that the GH7 had ProRes and ProRes HQ, since the GH6 has it, but when I look at the specs, I am only seeing ProRes Raw? Did Panasonic dump regular ProRes in the GH7? Please tell me they didn't. it has prores h265 h254 mp4 mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 13 minutes ago, zlfan said: it has prores h265 h254 mp4 Thanks, I found it in the specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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