Panasonic GH7

[Beritar]

2 minutes ago, kye said:

I tested a bunch of modes and was really impressed that the only times it cropped in were when you explicitly told it to do so (the ETC and 2x and 4x digital zooms) and everything else was downsampled.  That even included things like the FHD 60p mode in 2x digital crop - it was still downsampling from an area half the width of the sensor ( ~2.5K ) down to the FHD output resolution.  It made all the modes I tested really high quality.

I still read about the hodge-podge of gotchas and limitations on current generations of cameras and just shake my head.

I agree and most of influencers never speak about these things, they are very enthusiastic about the GH6 4K 120fps or 5,7K 60fps but at no point during their reviews they speak about the drop in detail quality or the lack of Open Gate 60fps compared to the GH5, in the same way they never speak about the drop in IBIS performance when using 5,7K.

[PannySVHS]

Wow! But it's 8bit, right? Uhd and cine4k are 8bit iirc. @BeritarWonder if Mark ii has it and if it's 10bit like it's for uhd and c4k.

1 hour ago, lsquare said:

It's a shame that it's not 422. 

Why's that? You said you're a complete newb to video. 10bit 420 is more than one would need at that stage of their cinematographic journey. How did your journey go with your FZ1000 from back when you last posted in 2014 until now?

 

[MrSMW]

30 minutes ago, Beritar said:

The GH5 is still the best Panasonic m43 cameras for a lot of things, including detail rendering and Open Gate 60fps

I’m not sure what the IBIS is like on the GH5 but one of the key reasons (the other being to crop up, down or just in within the full frame of what is available) is AF for the social media/content creator crowd…which none of the GH series has until the GH7.

And the GH7 is a bit overkill for that crowd so step forward the S9?

Smaller, lighter, full frame 6k OG goodness.

Most of the GH line kill it as a more serious filmmakers tool though…

I’d like to see a sequel to The Creator shot on the S9 instead of the FX3. Could ‘easily’ be done!

[ac6000cw]

31 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Wow! But it's 8bit, right? Uhd and cine4k are 8bit iirc. @BeritarWonder if Mark ii has it and if it's 10bit like it's for uhd and c4k.

From the GH5ii manual (there are equivalent modes when the camera is set to 50 Hz or 24 Hz 'system frequency') :

[ac6000cw]

36 minutes ago, Beritar said:

the drop in IBIS performance when using 5,7K.

Just educated guesswork, but that might be because it's using the full sensor area (instead of a vertically cropped area in UHD and C4K), so the IBIS can't move the sensor as far while staying within the image circle of the lens. Assuming the horizontal field-of-view is the same in 5.7K, UHD and C4K, the corners of the frame will be closer to the image circle limit in 4:3 than in 16:9 or 17:9.

[PannySVHS]

No 10bit in open gate 4k50/60p on any GH camera then, downsampled open gate 50/60p 8bit h265, only on GH5 mki+ii.

Some cool "news" are:

Up to 30p GH5ii offers downsampled open gate in 3328x2496 in 10bit 422 All Intra 400mbps! Wow!

@kyeDoes the MKI also offer 422 400mbit in that mode?

[kye]

29 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Up to 30p GH5ii offers downsampled open gate in 3328x2496 in 10bit 422 All Intra 400mbps! Wow!

@kyeDoes the MKI also offer 422 400mbit in that mode?

Sure does!  Both in 29.97p and 23.98p (which is probably 23.976).

[zlfan]

10 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Hmmm 🤔 

I’d like to use my Time Machine to go visit that age for sure and see someone like George Melieres at work, but as a hybrid event photographer working in 2024, I suspect my tools of choice have a few advantages over his…

16fps stop motion is not something my clients book me for 😂

now om-1/ii can do 120fps. 

[zlfan]

2 hours ago, kye said:

I tested a bunch of modes and was really impressed that the only times it cropped in were when you explicitly told it to do so (the ETC and 2x and 4x digital zooms) and everything else was downsampled.  That even included things like the FHD 60p mode in 2x digital crop - it was still downsampling from an area half the width of the sensor ( ~2.5K ) down to the FHD output resolution.  It made all the modes I tested really high quality.

I still read about the hodge-podge of gotchas and limitations on current generations of cameras and just shake my head.

"FHD 60p mode in 2x digital crop"

interesting.

can you explain more about this mode? is this 1080p 60p, and you have 2x digital zoom? this mode supposes to be 2/3 sensor size, 224 mm2 / 4 = 58.5 mm2. 

why is this different from etc 2x?

 

[Beritar]

2 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Wow! But it's 8bit, right? Uhd and cine4k are 8bit iirc. @BeritarWonder if Mark ii has it and if it's 10bit like it's for uhd and c4k.

Why's that? You said you're a complete newb to video. 10bit 420 is more than one would need at that stage of their cinematographic journey. How did your journey go with your FZ1000 from back when you last posted in 2014 until now?

 

Yes, it's 8 bits ... I think lot of people don't agree, but for me most of time 8 bits files are enough. If I don't need fast AF, 90% of the time I even prefer to use 8 bits 4K H264 files on my S5 instead of H265 10 bits on my S5II.

[zlfan]

from another thread

Another little gem form Filippo Chiesa.

Reading the comments:

  Quote

Excellent work. Congratulations.
Given the absence of camera movement, I ask you why you decided to use the light and handy GH5s despite having the EVA1, which would have at least benefited from a native iso of 2500.

His reply:

  Quote

Thank you Giancarmine!
I didn't go above 800 ISO in this video. I own the VariCam LT which even has a dual ISO system at 800 ISO and 5000 ISO.
The GH5S also has a dual ISO system at 400 ISO and 2500 ISO (almost the same as the EVA1).
I didn't use the GH5S for the handling, but because it is a big, small MDP that has a beautiful sensor and has colour science from a higher-ranking camera.
They deliberately limited it to 12 stops of DR because, unlike its sister GH5, it would be able to go up to 14 stops of DR.
The GH5 was already a beautiful and affordable camera; with the GH5S they have outdone themselves (and I am not referring to ISO).
I am happy because, in so many situations, I will be able to use the GH5S alongside my VariCam (as a B camera) without the worry of the usual compromises.

 

 

seems gh5s is the best?

if don't mind the gh7' af, which one has the best video iq, gh5, gh5ii,gh5s,gh6,gh7?

 

[Beritar]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I’m not sure what the IBIS is like on the GH5 but one of the key reasons (the other being to crop up, down or just in within the full frame of what is available) is AF for the social media/content creator crowd…which none of the GH series has until the GH7.

And the GH7 is a bit overkill for that crowd so step forward the S9?

Smaller, lighter, full frame 6k OG goodness.

Most of the GH line kill it as a more serious filmmakers tool though…

I’d like to see a sequel to The Creator shot on the S9 instead of the FX3. Could ‘easily’ be done!

The IBIS of the GH5 is very similar to the GH6, people saying the GH6 is a lot of better never used both cameras (or they are influencers).
In 5,7K the IBIS of the GH6 is worse than on the GH5 in 4K, much more "jumps" while walking between 15mm and upward.
The real upgrade in IBIS performance is on the G9II (and probably the GH7). However I still get a lot of wooble between 8-12mm on my G9II. The new EIS mode suppress the wooble but also lower the level of fine details because of the crop.

About the S9 I'm not sure, I still don't like the S5II internal video engine and I think the S9 has the same. Also the rolling shutter is probably the same than the S5II, though I'm not sure since I have not used the S9.

For me the big selling point of the G/GH (outside of IBIS and RS) is the lenses weight and size. Even the tiny 20mm f1.7II has very fast AF on the G9II (though a bit noisy), this combo is a joy to use. And when I want the best quality, it's always with the 25-50mm, I just love how this lens renders (colors and contrast), I think even more than my most expensive FF zoom lenses.

[Beritar]

1 hour ago, ac6000cw said:

Just educated guesswork, but that might be because it's using the full sensor area (instead of a vertically cropped area in UHD and C4K), so the IBIS can't move the sensor as far while staying within the image circle of the lens. Assuming the horizontal field-of-view is the same in 5.7K, UHD and C4K, the corners of the frame will be closer to the image circle limit in 4:3 than in 16:9 or 17:9.

But C4K uses the same part of the sensor than 5,7K. And if you look closely, 5,7K is even (very) slightly more croped than C4K.
But for 5,8K Open Gate yes it makes sense.

[zlfan]

probably when gh8 is 8k, its 2x mode will be 4k, it is 2/3 4k. very interesting.

[MrSMW]

53 minutes ago, zlfan said:

now om-1/ii can do 120fps

Which is great for anyone interested in that but I’ve never shot above 50/60p in my life. And never will.

[Emanuel]

1 minute ago, MrSMW said:

Which is great for anyone interested in that but I’ve never shot above 50/60p in my life. And never will.

50/60p versus 96/100/120fps are two different worlds apart indeed ; )

Pity that Z8 8K 50p/60p is not reliable 'cause of overheating or as of now, I wouldn't be checking glass for E mount very likely... ;- )

 

[MrSMW]

24 minutes ago, Beritar said:

And when I want the best quality, it's always with the 25-50mm, I just love how this lens renders (colors and contrast), I think even more than my most expensive FF zoom lenses

I decided on the S9 with Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 as my compact ‘compromise’, but the GH7 with the pairing of 10-25 (indoors) and 25-50 (outdoors) would actually be a preference other than for 2 factors.

Size & weight of each combo, the M4/3 option being approx 1.5x the size & weight, plus having to carry that option lens and

Cost. The S9 I think is €1600 and I already have the lens but 3 M4/3 items, even used for the lenses, would run me pushing €6k.

Somewhat reluctantly, I had to say no to that option, but hey ho.

Now slightly on the fence whether I should even change my S1H for the S9…

The S9 is the smaller & lighter option paired with the Sigma 28-70, but the single card slot is a slight concern.

Only ever had one SD card have a problem and that was at least 12+ years, but it’s something every pro needs to consider.

The S1H package compared with the GH7 + 10-25 or 25-50 is around the same weight, but not as wide or as long, but flipping to S35 mode takes it up to an equivalent 105mm.

The other factor to consider is the S1H is bullet proof, I have 4 batteries for it. And I own it, so costs exactly €0 🤑

But all that said and done, if it wasn’t for the financial part of the equation, O think I’d go for the GH7 and that pair of fast zooms.

[Emanuel]

30 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

The S1H package compared with the GH7 + 10-25 or 25-50 is around the same weight, but not as wide or as long, but flipping to S35 mode takes it up to an equivalent 105mm.

I was Yesterday night and I will be tonight again, shooting with a GX85 coupled to a 35-100mm f/2.8 (what lens and what a combo BTW) 'cause I am done with old school full frame but could be aka cine-style in this particular case... for handy acquisition in the middle of the crowd, your results decrease for less than a half.

 

30 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

The S9 is the smaller & lighter option paired with the Sigma 28-70, but the single card slot is a slight concern.

Only ever had one SD card have a problem and that was at least 12+ years, but it’s something every pro needs to consider.

Don't be worried. As events shooter, you already know that's a very high rate to keep you safe ; )

 

30 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

that said and done, if it wasn’t for the financial part of the equation, O think I’d go for the GH7 and that pair of fast zooms.

That's the border between someone who does this for living and who doesn't give a damn, the financial part is always the best part of your investment, no matter what : )

I took an eye on the new BMCC6K-FF because of their irresistible offer last month and other camera is coming very soon from another ecosystem, go figure : D Exactly the same principle stands, even for compatibility between lenses crossing mounts and so on... ;- )

[zlfan]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

Which is great for anyone interested in that but I’ve never shot above 50/60p in my life. And never will.

you don't want 120p for slow motion?

[MrSMW]

12 minutes ago, zlfan said:

you don't want 120p for slow motion?

Nope and can’t envisage any scenario why I ever would.