Panasonic GH7

[zlfan]

3 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Nope and can’t envisage any scenario why I ever would.

I forgot that you do events for a living. never mind. 

[MrSMW]

49 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Don't be worried. As events shooter, you already know that's a very high rate to keep you safe ; )

Probably…

Plenty of cameras only have one card slot.

There was no back up at all when we shot film (other than it was maybe 10 rolls of film over a day).

I just stuck my current S1H rig including VND and Spider Holster plate and it came in at 1.75kg so slightly higher than I thought.

S9 with cage and same lens will be just under 1kg so quite a big difference and the size/weight combo above a certain output quality (that the S1H and S9 are both well above) is a priority for me.

Plus the better AF.

Convinced myself, I’ll at least give the S9 a chance.

[MrSMW]

3 minutes ago, zlfan said:

I forgot that you do events for a living. never mind. 

Some event shooters might want it, but waaaaaay too slow mo for my tastes and I have been increasingly moving away from any form of slow mo at all.

It can have it’s place but I’m personally tired of it.

[zlfan]

I think for events, go pro 12 5k is pretty good for daylight shooting. I tried several times on some events. truly pocket size, fast moving, everything is fine. if wanting to go 8k, I think insta360 or other action cams can do. 

the real problem for these small sensor action cams is the low light performance. I tried once and never wanted to do anything with them after the evening. 

I think a full frame 4k camera is needed for night. 8k ff is good for reframing, which sometimes is important for events, but the low light may suffer comparing to 4k ff. 

[Emanuel]

2 hours ago, zlfan said:

I think for events, go pro 12 5k is pretty good for daylight shooting. I tried several times on some events. truly pocket size, fast moving, everything is fine. if wanting to go 8k, I think insta360 or other action cams can do. 

the real problem for these small sensor action cams is the low light performance. I tried once and never wanted to do anything with them after the evening. 

I think a full frame 4k camera is needed for night. 8k ff is good for reframing, which sometimes is important for events, but the low light may suffer comparing to 4k ff. 

Ace Pro 8K has remarkable low light performance BTW. The bigger is not necessarily all the time the best : )

Since GH6 as for instance, MFT is nowadays the only format of this camera industry segment I am aware to let it go with PRORES RAW 4K 120fps external recording under HDMI 2.1 when others don't even allow raw @ such high frame rate internally... ; )

[zlfan]

2 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Ace Pro 8K has remarkable low light performance BTW. The bigger is not necessarily all the time the best : )

Since GH6 as for instance, MFT is nowadays the only format of this camera industry segment I am aware to let it go with PRORES RAW 4K 120fps external recording under HDMI 2.1 when others don't even allow raw @ such high frame rate internally... ; )

it is good to know ace pro 8k has good low light. I will keep an eye on it. thanks for your knowledge. technology has developed to a degree that much previous thinking is not intuitively right. 

[kye]

8 hours ago, zlfan said:

"FHD 60p mode in 2x digital crop"

interesting.

can you explain more about this mode? is this 1080p 60p, and you have 2x digital zoom? this mode supposes to be 2/3 sensor size, 224 mm2 / 4 = 58.5 mm2. 

why is this different from etc 2x?

When you are in any mode (that I've tried) the camera is taking the full width of the sensor and downscaling it to the output resolution you have chosen (assuming you're not using the full open gate mode which obviously doesn't need scaling).  The horizontal FOV is the same regardless of the output mode.

If you engage the 2x or 4x mode, it will crop into the sensor by 2x or 4x, then scale that to the output resolution.  These crops are independent of the output mode.

If you engage the ETC mode, it takes a crop of the sensor that is the same size as the mode you have selected, so the crop is a 1:1 crop with no down or upsampling and is obviously dependent on the mode you have chosen.  Cropping 1:1 in ETC mode when you're in a 4K mode into the ~5.2K sensor gives a total crop factor of 2.7, which is pretty close to the 2.88 crop factor of Super16.  The ETC crop of FHD is double that, and close to the crop factor of Super8.

6 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Some event shooters might want it, but waaaaaay too slow mo for my tastes and I have been increasingly moving away from any form of slow mo at all.

It can have it’s place but I’m personally tired of it.

+1

I think if you do it well then you either look like a you're covering an action sport or selling fast food ads, and if you do it poorly you look like an influencer.

Really neither of these lend themselves to the wedding vibe.. 

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, kye said:

Really neither of these lend themselves to the wedding vibe.. 

I think the simple truth in my case is I started using it from the start when it was less of a thing, in order to separate myself from the herd.

It became a default through laziness and a lack of creativity that then became a habit.

Like any habit, it was not easy to break but once I had…which was fairly recently, I now find it jarring and one of those ‘how could I not see this before?’ moments.

And that was just 50p slowed to 50%.

The thought of super slo mo from shooting 100fps or more, even back when the above was a default for me, I find too extreme to the point of being ridiculous.

I blame Michael Bay. 

 

[kye]

14 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I think the simple truth in my case is I started using it from the start when it was less of a thing, in order to separate myself from the herd.

It became a default through laziness and a lack of creativity that then became a habit.

Like any habit, it was not easy to break but once I had…which was fairly recently, I now find it jarring and one of those ‘how could I not see this before?’ moments.

And that was just 50p slowed to 50%.

The thought of super slo mo from shooting 100fps or more, even back when the above was a default for me, I find too extreme to the point of being ridiculous.

I blame Michael Bay. 

Riiiight..  so you're not a critic, you're a recovering addict!

I gather this is yours then?

It's.... A vibe.

[Emanuel]

5 hours ago, zlfan said:

it is good to know ace pro 8k has good low light. I will keep an eye on it. thanks for your knowledge. technology has developed to a degree that much previous thinking is not intuitively right. 

There are no miracles but 8K resolution balances what you would expect from such a TINY sensor size factor in fact -- from an old user not posting here anymore, this is a sample with available night:

 

 

[Emanuel]

* available light

 

[zlfan]

38 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

There are no miracles but 8K resolution balances what you would expect from such a TINY sensor size factor in fact -- from an old user not posting here anymore, this is a sample with available night:

 

 

this is significantly better than go pro 12. 

[zlfan]

I hope that the camera companies can come up with a m43/43 sensor fixed lens action cam. this way it will solve most of the low light issue. 

[zlfan]

nowadays I rig my cameras with specific lenses, like one cam one lens, sort of like fix lens cam. it takes time to figure out the cam and the lens combo. if the cam and the lens are integrated, the whole rig can be much smaller than interchangeable lens mount. 

[Emanuel]

46 minutes ago, zlfan said:

nowadays I rig my cameras with specific lenses, like one cam one lens, sort of like fix lens cam. it takes time to figure out the cam and the lens combo. if the cam and the lens are integrated, the whole rig can be much smaller than interchangeable lens mount. 

Fixed lens is a PITA anyways. These people are used to make it interchangeable mount instead:

https://www.back-bone.ca/

[zlfan]

39 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Fixed lens is a PITA anyways. These people are used to make it interchangeable mount instead:

https://www.back-bone.ca/

interesting to know. c mount lenses are affordable and diverse. this really helps GoPro. Thanks for the info. 

[MrSMW]

3 hours ago, kye said:

gather this is yours then?

Nah 😜

[ac6000cw]

23 hours ago, Beritar said:

But C4K uses the same part of the sensor than 5,7K. And if you look closely, 5,7K is even (very) slightly more croped than C4K.
But for 5,8K Open Gate yes it makes sense.

From the GH6 manual:

I see what you mean about 5.7K versus 5.8K. I wonder if the extra image/video processing needed for 5.7K (about twice as many pixels per frame as C4K) is reducing the processing power available for IBIS control, so it can't react as quickly?

As an illustration of what I said in words in an earlier post, below is an image circle with 4:3 (yellow), 16:9 (grey) and 17:9 (red) rectangles inside it. Note how the corners of the 16:9 and 17:9 rectangles are further inside the circle than the 4:3 rectangle (the full 5.8K 'open gate' aspect ratio). In reality, the usable image circle is larger than needed to contain a 4:3 rectangle - if it wasn't, sensor-shift stabilisation of 4:3 'open gate' video or stills would be impossible without vignetting.

[Emanuel]

10 hours ago, zlfan said:

interesting to know. c mount lenses are affordable and diverse. this really helps GoPro. Thanks for the info. 

And here you have the Osmo Pocket 3 from same camera user @markr041 with that 4K60p look you praise, so @24p you can even have much more room with 1 stop and a half of light extra at same shutter speed equivalent for a 180º angle and subsequently better results indeed, than the ones remarkable per se from these shots and such a tiny sensor size platform:

The sensor size format is not actually so crucial as before anymore with the new sensor technology we have today.

[zlfan]

32 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

And here you have the Osmo Pocket 3 from same camera user @markr041 with that 4K60p look you praise, so @24p you can even have much more room with 1 stop and a half of light extra at same shutter speed equivalent for a 180º angle and subsequently better results indeed, than the ones remarkable per se from these shots and such a tiny sensor size platform:

The sensor size format is not actually so crucial as before anymore with the new sensor technology we have today.

This place probably is at the east coast of USA, may be Yale. 

The low light performance seems not as good as the action pro 8k somehow, may be a little bit better than go pro 12, not much. 

you are right, the lowest shutter setting of 24p with 1/24 sec shutter speed has one stop better light advantage over 60p 1/60 sec. 

The stabilization is pretty good, at least as good as go pro 12, may be a little better. The walking is almost steadicam or gimbal like.