Panasonic GH7

[BTM_Pix]

A caveat to note is that the LogC3 can only be used in the compressed formats and that it is still only Vlog-L that is available in ProRes RAW.

With it having ProRes HQ 4:2:2, this is likely not a massive drawback. Especially, of course, if you are a Resolve user and don’t want the extra transcoding step anyway.

 

[IronFilm]

4 hours ago, mercer said:

But once again, the problem with the GH series of cameras and flagship m4/3 cameras, in general, is the cost. Although $2200 is a reasonable price for the features you're getting, for me, it only makes sense if you're going all in and getting the 32bit audio unit and the LogC key... at that point... after you add a lens or two, you're looking at 3-4 grand... and then you're in R5C, Z8 territory... but then if you go that route and get lenses for those systems, you're in C70 or Komodo territory. It's a never ending game of upselling that I just can't justify for a hobby.

I think you need to initially ignore lenses when looking at costs, as it isn't right to compare camera body + lenses with just a camera body from the competition (such as a Z8)

The next step afterwards, is you then compare camera body plus lenses VS camera body plus lenses of the competition. 

MFT tends to win here, with cheaper lenses. 

And if looking at camera systems, then even with the paid upgrades you're looking at:

R5C = $3.6K

FX3 = $3.7K

FX30 = $1.6K

XH2S = $2.5K

From this perspective, the GH7 and $2.2K (or $2.4K) looks very good. Heaps cheaper than the FF competition, and very comparable to the APS-C / S35 competition. 

You add on the audio adapter accessory for any of these and it is another $400+, very comparable indeed to the $499 for the Panasonic DMW-XLR2

So all in all, I think the Panasonic GH7 is priced very comparable or even sharper than the competition is. 

If you're at this budget bracket. (unfortunately I'm at the GH4/G85 price point, and I already have one!)

[zlfan]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

🙌

Not 100% but a pair of GH7’s with the 10-25 and 25-50 twins is just about the perfect set up for me, especially compared with my current set up.

First of all, it’s two matched cameras for ergos, batteries etc.

Second, whilst there are comparable zooms in FF at the wider end, there are not at the longer end.

Third, lighter and more portable set up for me.

I don’t actually need all the bells and whistles and it’s the PDAF that swings it for me and why I skipped the GH6, but dabbled with the OM-1.

The ONLY issue I had with the OM-1 was I was not a fan of the video quality, - it’s very purpose for me 😏

A single FF camera with a fast wider ‘indoor’ zoom plus a fast longer zoom for ‘outdoor’ and I’m done. 👾

it is true that m43 still has its niche.

full frame mirrorless body like s5 2x can be the same as gh7, but the lenses can not be as small. so the size savings on the camera do not contribute much to the whole rig. 

I actually think full frame mirrorless should be like canon r1 or Nikon z9, just like the dslr canon 1 series. of course, there are small light full frame mirrorless like Sony r1x, which has its niche. but m43 can also be very small if doing the same thing as the r1x. 

[IronFilm]

4 hours ago, mercer said:

I will be curious to see where the GH series goes from here. This seems like an apex for m4/3. You can only assume that the GH8 will be GH8K, and I'd love to see a GHX eventually, but I'm not sure it will have the legs to last that long. 

The GH8 could keep everything exactly the same about the GH7 (not even adding 8K), but gives us four stage internal NDs (or perhaps eND) and a SDI BNC (or mini-SDI??) output with zero delay (and an independent full size HDMI output) and it would sell like hotcakes. 

Or maybe this could be called a "Panasonic GH7S"??? (a MFT camera inside a beefy "S2H body"???)

[zlfan]

Just now, IronFilm said:

The GH8 could keep everything exactly the same about the GH7 (not even adding 8K), but gives us four stage internal NDs (or perhaps eND) and a SDI BNC (or mini-SDI??) output with zero delay (and an independent full size HDMI output) and it would sell like hotcakes. 

Or maybe this could be called a "Panasonic GH7S"??? (a MFT camera inside a beefy "S2H body"???)

this is big wish and fits well with the video shooting. 

[IronFilm]

4 hours ago, zlfan said:

I think an even more impactful cam is something like s5 iii with a 6k full Frame and a dci 4k s35 crop prores raw arri log c3. this is like a Alexa 35 at $2500, plus a Alexa lf when in full Frame mode. that 15 stop dr is nice, that highlight rolloff is unique, but a $2500 cam can do 95% of a mini lf and an Alexa 35. this is what a new cam should be, just like 5d3ml in 2015, r1mx in 2009. 

I bet the "S2H" will be "ARRI Certified" (and maaybe they'll bring it to the S5IIX as well) 

  

4 hours ago, zlfan said:

gh7 still has advantage over gh6, as gh7 can record prores raw, and has better dr. so gh7 can match to Alexa even easier. 

For sure! But for people who are already owners of a GH6 (and sometimes shoot with ARRI), then this is an awesome upgrade without needing to buy an entirely new camera. 

3 hours ago, mercer said:

At the risk of sounding contradictory, with further thought, I find the GH7 release to be a bit... cynical... for lack of a better word. In less than a year, the S2H will be released with similar and/or better features. Is Panasonic just trying to get one last bit out of m4/3 and the unsold GH6 parts before  they discontinue the entire m4/3 division?

The S2H will fairly likely cost roughly double what the GH7 costs. (especially if the GH7 is starting to see a few discounts by the time the S2H finally arrives, say if it might even just dip under $2K: $1,999)

3 hours ago, mercer said:

When you add the, out of left field, LogC aspect, is it possible that Panasonic is purchasing Arri like Nikon purchased Red and Panasonic is cleaning shop to release an entirely new division/lineup of cameras?

I very very very highly doubt they'll buy ARRI (but hey, the RED purchase was a shock too!)

3 hours ago, zlfan said:

there are some s16 lenses with pl mount, and 2/3 lenses, they can be adapted to m43 mount. gh7 can do dci 4k prores raw hq 60p s16. with a good s16 lens like Zeiss 10-100mm, it is very powerful. right now there is not many good s16 digital cinema cameras. 

Add now the Canon C400 to that list!!

 

[zlfan]

3 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I bet the "S2H" will be "ARRI Certified" (and maaybe they'll bring it to the S5IIX as well) 

  

For sure! But for people who are already owners of a GH6 (and sometimes shoot with ARRI), then this is an awesome upgrade without needing to buy an entirely new camera. 

The S2H will fairly likely cost roughly double what the GH7 costs. (especially if the GH7 is starting to see a few discounts by the time the S2H finally arrives, say if it might even just dip under $2K: $1,999)

I very very very highly doubt they'll buy ARRI (but hey, the RED purchase was a shock too!)

Add now the Canon C400 to that list!!

 

interesting, if c400 can do s16 4k raw, it will be better than gh7, as c400 has built in nd filters. yeh, the price tag is 4 times, guess related to 4 nd filters. lol. 

[IronFilm]

12 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

A caveat to note is that the LogC3 can only be used in the compressed formats and that it is still only Vlog-L that is available in ProRes RAW.

With it having ProRes HQ 4:2:2, this is likely not a massive drawback. Especially, of course, if you are a Resolve user and don’t want the extra transcoding step anyway.

 

Not a big deal, as I bet a tonne of ARRI shooters who are using the GH7 with LogC3 as a supplementary camera would only want it to be in ProResHQ and not anything else anyway. 

7 minutes ago, zlfan said:

this is big wish and fits well with the video shooting. 

dreaming big! dreams are free

1 minute ago, zlfan said:

interesting, if c400 can do s16 4k raw, it will be better than gh7, as c400 has built in nd filters. yeh, the price tag is 4 times, guess related to 4 nd filters. lol. 

Not 100% if it is 4K at S16??? Would have to double check that, I just remember noticing it had a S16 mode for the C400

[zlfan]

23 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Not a big deal, as I bet a tonne of ARRI shooters who are using the GH7 with LogC3 as a supplementary camera would only want it to be in ProResHQ and not anything else anyway. 

dreaming big! dreams are free

Not 100% if it is 4K at S16??? Would have to double check that, I just remember noticing it had a S16 mode for the C400

probably c400 s16 mode can do almost uhd 4k, as its s35 mode is 6k. 

[BTM_Pix]

34 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Not a big deal, as I bet a tonne of ARRI shooters who are using the GH7 with LogC3 as a supplementary camera would only want it to be in ProResHQ and not anything else anyway. 

As will a tonne of non-ARRI shooters too.

As I said, it’s a caveat (or a glancing blow from the cripple hammer) but not a massive drawback in practical terms.

[zlfan]

if gh7 has a firmware update of aria log c3 uncompressed prores4444. gh7 will sell like a hot cake. lol. 

[zerocool22]

Hopefully they will release logc3 to the s5ii as well...

[PannySVHS]

C400 is full frame 6k, so S16 should be a bit more than 2K. @IronFilm

I'm interested to see the footage people will produce with the GH7. I liked Gh6 colours but wasn't so keen on the textures.

[ac6000cw]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

A caveat to note is that the LogC3 can only be used in the compressed formats and that it is still only Vlog-L that is available in ProRes RAW.

If it's got a 'dynamic range compression' transfer curve like Vlog-L applied, how is it still raw sensor data?

[BTM_Pix]

46 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

If it's got a 'dynamic range compression' transfer curve like Vlog-L applied, how is it still raw sensor data?

Its being used as a shorthand for there being a specific V-LOG RAW to LOG profile for ProRes RAW in FCPX.

In practical terms, without seeing the camera, I'm guessing if you select ProRes RAW as an option then it prevents selection of ARRI c3 as an option or reverts it to V-LOG.

The range of adjustments available - aside from the Nikon Z8/9 - in ProRes RAW is limited to ISO in most cases but also has white balance control with the Panasonic cameras.

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/109504

The Camera Labs review of the GH7 shows it in action (time stamp queued up)

 

I've never used ProRes RAW, though I do have a Ninja to use it with, but I'm fascinated by the optimisation it has in FCPX for processing and final rendering versus other formats that are outlined in these videos.

 

[PPNS]

8 hours ago, zlfan said:

I think an even more impactful cam is something like s5 iii with a 6k full Frame and a dci 4k s35 crop prores raw arri log c3. this is like a Alexa 35 at $2500, plus a Alexa lf when in full Frame mode. that 15 stop dr is nice, that highlight rolloff is unique, but a $2500 cam can do 95% of a mini lf and an Alexa 35. this is what a new cam should be, just like 5d3ml in 2015, r1mx in 2009. 

i have fantastic news: the a35 has log c4, which is quite different from c3. so you have to put in the same work as before if you want to match the cameras. it’s strange that panasonic licensed log c3 imo when Arri is abandoning it for something newer.

[IronFilm]

25 minutes ago, PPNS said:

i have fantastic news: the a35 has log c4, which is quite different from c3. so you have to put in the same work as before if you want to match the cameras. it’s strange that panasonic licensed log c3 imo when Arri is abandoning it for something newer.

ugh! Maybe that was why ARRI was willing to give it away... 

Only people using older (non ARRI 35) cameras would be wanting it???

[Davide DB]

8 hours ago, zlfan said:

according what I read on the dpreview, the dci 4k of gh7 is 1.4 crop of the m43, m43 is 224 mm2, 1.4 crop is 50% of the area of the m43, so the dci 4k crop mode is 110-120 mm2, this is basically 1 inch or s16. I think s16 is 95 mm2, 1 inch is 110 mm2. there are some 1 inch lenses at c mount or Nikon 1 mount. if no need to reach infinity, these lenses can be adapted to gh7 too. 

 

I'm reading this in a hurry...

What does it means? In 4K prores raw i will have an extra 1.4 crop after the 2x crop of M43?

[Davide DB]

14 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Here comes the u-turn!

 

This is the GU GH7 review opening statements 😑

 

Quote

 

Near the end of my GH6 review, I said that micro four thirds is dead. That was a mistake. I stand by my reasoning. I still don't believe the GH6 is a great choice for most content creators, and I think my frustrations with that camera were valid. But declaring a platform dead is just a stupid sentence and brings nothing of value to review. But let me respond to 2021 Gerald using his same silly language, by saying that the LUMIX GH7 shows the micro four thirds is not only still very much alive, but it's thriving.

What's happening, everybody? I'm Gerald Undone, and that's the last time you'll hear me describe a camera system as alive or dead. There's another thing I was wrong about with my GH6 review. I was in a bad mood that day, possibly that week. I had a lot of stuff going on on the personal side and it clearly showed in my delivery.

 

[PPNS]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

ugh! Maybe that was why ARRI was willing to give it away... 

Only people using older (non ARRI 35) cameras would be wanting it???

its a spec to brag about rather than being truly useful. Ive not used any previous gh series cameras, but they were probably already fairly easy to match to a ‘better’ camera if shot in a 10bit 422 (or higher) mode.